https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/07/trump-seeks-halt-to-d-c-criminal-case-00130662
phisheep They can't do this to actually delay the trial, right? What idiots.
phisheep They can't do this to actually delay the trial, right? What idiots.
My guess would be that if he ignores deadlines, then he can catch contempt charges.
It could be more than that, biff the wrong deadlines and he could just lose the entire case.
Yeah, skipping deadlines can lead to a summary judgment against you. If you're unwilling to argue the facts in a court of law, the court is left with little option but to accept the version of events from the prosecution. That's what happened in the Alex Jones case. It ends up saving the courts a whole lot of time, they just get to skip straight to sentencing/damages as the case may be!
Edit: Nevermind, I am not quite correct here! Thanks Fnor
Edit: Nevermind, I am not quite correct here! Thanks Fnor
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I almost feel like a summary judgment would be worse in that there's no chance to finally air all the dirty laundry and evidence in the open for the world to understand and for Trump's defense to finally be thoroughly and utterly debunked. I'd rather they just drag him into the courtroom in chains regardless.
That may be his way to avoid this and claim he didn't even get a trial. "Proof" that it's political persecution.
That is exactly how he would try to spin it. Normally I'd be deathly afraid of what his fanbase would do in retaliation, but given the current state of the GOP and their utter failure to move on to any semblance of an alternative figurehead, I'm naively hoping that MAGA will eventually drift away into oblivion. Though people still need to vote in 2024 regardless.
I get the worry. But I'm always skeptical of the whole "being found guilty would be good for him, actually. it's eleven dimensional chess" type things about Trump.
Yeah he ain't doing shit. All he is doing is trying to delay, delay, delay. A jury might actually acquit him, this judge almost certainly will not in that situation. And I very much doubt Trump wants to be a victim so bad he'll go to jail over it.
I mean, he has yet to be held accountable to real consequences. Why stop doing whatever he wants?
They could still do a sentencing hearing and present pretty much the same evidence.
This is a tired statement that needs to die, at least for a while. We are seeing him being held accountable in multiple cases in multiple states. He is actively facing consequences, just not the consequences we want yet.
Exactly, if he becomes president again and destroys the justice system, or if he somehow wins all these cases (unlikely), THEN we can talk about not facing consequences.
I think they're really thinking if they act as if there's a stay and this just...move forward, they can market it as a rigged system out to get him. Clearly Trump is attempting to frame this to people not following this as a prosecution gone desperate.
It says so much that he shows up, regularly in fact, to a case about his assets that he's lied about and is trying to not be seen in any which way with this, the thing he might legit be put in prison over. What a vain fuck.
It says so much that he shows up, regularly in fact, to a case about his assets that he's lied about and is trying to not be seen in any which way with this, the thing he might legit be put in prison over. What a vain fuck.
How many people could get away with this shit? "Fuck you judge, I'm not participating the trial."
OP
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Chutkan is on the ball as usual.
Now does Trump stick to his guns and forgo a reply, or does he undermine his argument by replying?
"You say you'll disregard all deadlines, well, here's a deadline for you" - ish.
Now does Trump stick to his guns and forgo a reply, or does he undermine his argument by replying?
"You say you'll disregard all deadlines, well, here's a deadline for you" - ish.
Giving me strong Dale Gribble "I do not recognize the authority" vibes.
It certainly will be. Looking ahead, my mind bizarrely goes to the movie Deep Impact, a scene where the president (played by Morgan Freeman) gives a speech revealing the approaching comet. He says:
"At some point over the next 10 months, all of us will entertain our worst fears and concerns. But I can also promise you this: life will go on. We will prevail."
View: https://youtu.be/ngzYLDIjCyg?si=dHsCng3P4-ejOb3-&t=390
Actually, maybe it's not so strange to think of a second Trump presidency as similar to an existential threat to life.
Trump: Surely my 3 Supreme Court appointees will help hear my appeal!
SCOTUS:
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I also love how the DC Court of Appeals used his own public words at the CNN town hall against him in their ruling. Like dude, you're facing hundreds of years in prison, you would think you would want to shut the fuck up. Any competent lawyer would be literally pulling their hair out if their client was talking this much shit about their case in public.
The FIRST thing even a ham and egger criminal defense attorney will tell you after taking the case is don't talk to anybody about the case, let them do all the talking and stay as far away as possible from running into or talking to anyone involved with the offense. They'll tell you when to talk and what to say. I took a few law classes in college for fun (I'm a law nerd) and I remember my professor who used to be a public defender then clerk for a judge give the hot air balloon story. Meaning, you should stay SO far out of the public eye when charged with a crime that you shouldn't even ride a hot air balloon while out on bond because the victim or someone connected to them might look up with binoculars and see you and think that you're making a statement by flying over them. Be THAT careful.
Now, personally, I want him to keep talking because it just buries him deeper and deeper, and he has no competent lawyers who can make him stop talking.
The FIRST thing even a ham and egger criminal defense attorney will tell you after taking the case is don't talk to anybody about the case, let them do all the talking and stay as far away as possible from running into or talking to anyone involved with the offense. They'll tell you when to talk and what to say. I took a few law classes in college for fun (I'm a law nerd) and I remember my professor who used to be a public defender then clerk for a judge give the hot air balloon story. Meaning, you should stay SO far out of the public eye when charged with a crime that you shouldn't even ride a hot air balloon while out on bond because the victim or someone connected to them might look up with binoculars and see you and think that you're making a statement by flying over them. Be THAT careful.
Now, personally, I want him to keep talking because it just buries him deeper and deeper, and he has no competent lawyers who can make him stop talking.
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Trump: Surely my 3 Supreme Court appointees will help hear my appeal!
SCOTUS:
Slight correction, this was the DC court of appeals and not SCOTUS. SCOTUS is next if he continues.
That's the beauty of it. All the competent lawyers noped out before all this crap even started. All he is left are charlatans, people looking to become famous, and true MAGA believers at his side.
That's the prediction, I think. As with all these appeals (like the "presidential immunity" one a bit upthread), SCOTUS isn't going to spend a minute on any of them and so being turned down is only a matter of time.
That's what I mean. He's going to appeal this to SCOTUS. He truly thinks his end game is that SURELY the conservative Supreme Court will defend him and end this, especially since he installed 3 of them when the reality is, outside of Thomas and Alito, the other 7 don't give a FUCK about him.
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The full - slightly redacted - DC Circuit order is here.
Honestly I think they made a bit of a meal of it, getting tangled up in their own definition of "target/targetting" which Judge Chutkan was quite precise about. As well as allowing criticism of Jack Smith as Special Counsel, they have added an intent and materiality requirement for other prohibited speech. That potentially opens a bit of a loophole for Trump's usual plausible deniability game, but I think Judge Chutkan can comfortably work within those parameters. At least it should be appeal-proof.
Now, a syllogism:
1) Trump would have to be be stupid to appeal this to SCOTUS.
2) Trump is stupid.
3) ?
I don't think SCOTUS would touch this with a bargepole.
Honestly I think they made a bit of a meal of it, getting tangled up in their own definition of "target/targetting" which Judge Chutkan was quite precise about. As well as allowing criticism of Jack Smith as Special Counsel, they have added an intent and materiality requirement for other prohibited speech. That potentially opens a bit of a loophole for Trump's usual plausible deniability game, but I think Judge Chutkan can comfortably work within those parameters. At least it should be appeal-proof.
Now, a syllogism:
1) Trump would have to be be stupid to appeal this to SCOTUS.
2) Trump is stupid.
3) ?
I don't think SCOTUS would touch this with a bargepole.
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Two filings over the weekend.
DoJ opposition to Trump's motions for extended discovery. No the whole of the DoJ and the DHS and the CIA etc are not part of the prosecution team. Replies are dues 12 Dec and 14 Dec, so probably before any ruling on the motion to stay.
DoJ opposition to Trump's motion to stay pending appeal on presidential immunity etc. Arguing that it should not be granted so as to preserve the trial date and that the court is not divested of all jurisdiction, only some of it. In particular that the court keeps jurisdiction over its gag order.
At this stage it is hard to tell what impact there will be on the trial date. The last DC circuit ruling, the gag order one, took just over 7 weeks from the notice of appeal to final ruling - if this is the same we'd expect a ruling about end of January. That would be uncomfortably close to trial if everything is stayed, so I could see the trial going back to, say, early May at worst. That would set up a clash with Aileen Cannon in Florida, but also open up enough space for the NY Stormy Daniels case to go ahead in March as planned.
DoJ opposition to Trump's motions for extended discovery. No the whole of the DoJ and the DHS and the CIA etc are not part of the prosecution team. Replies are dues 12 Dec and 14 Dec, so probably before any ruling on the motion to stay.
DoJ opposition to Trump's motion to stay pending appeal on presidential immunity etc. Arguing that it should not be granted so as to preserve the trial date and that the court is not divested of all jurisdiction, only some of it. In particular that the court keeps jurisdiction over its gag order.
At this stage it is hard to tell what impact there will be on the trial date. The last DC circuit ruling, the gag order one, took just over 7 weeks from the notice of appeal to final ruling - if this is the same we'd expect a ruling about end of January. That would be uncomfortably close to trial if everything is stayed, so I could see the trial going back to, say, early May at worst. That would set up a clash with Aileen Cannon in Florida, but also open up enough space for the NY Stormy Daniels case to go ahead in March as planned.
Special Counsel appeals direct to SCOTUS (presidential immunity)
Jack is going straight to the Supreme Court. He's tired of the games on the Trump side.
EDIT: Beaten to the punch by a second ;)
EDIT: Beaten to the punch by a second ;)
I feel like they have ruled about this before and found he has no immunity.
Maybe I'm wrong on that.
Good. No sense in working to get a verdict and then having it appealed after the fact, on some immunity bullshit, causing a delay.
He should get the OK to proceed now, so it's not an option for Trump after the fact.
It's much more likely that they take the case and sit on it until after the election, though I doubt there's four justices willing to do that.
OP
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Very smart.
As you said, you KNOW Trump was going to keep appealing up the ladder.. and do it as slow as possible.
May as well beat him to the punch and do it fast. You're also putting the SCOTUS's feet directly to the fire.
