US PoliEra 2019 |OT3| YOU WERE AT MY WEDDING, DENISE
- Thread starter Ogodei
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Pretty much this. I will say I do feel like we got a bit hosed though.
This is a good line of inquiry. It really does seem abrupt and with everyone in a tizzy about the contents of the report, discussion about the timing is getting buried.
I'm pretty sure Barr cut the investigation short. It made no sense to end it now when he hadn't gotten the info from the foreign company and other strings that we're still out there. We also know Trump dangled pardons and had his white house counsel tell people to lie in congressional testimony.
Ya, that was interesting and I certainly think it's worth pursuing. Barr is clearly not about playing this above board.
Them being bad at selling narratives is actually the entire problem with this situation and why I'm pissed
Getting Trump thrown in prison was always an impossible order even if he deserves it for a million reason not even related to Russia or Putin at all
Not getting embarrassed for investigating someone shouldn't be hard. Neither is having something blow up in their face or allowing Trump and the GOP to constantly control the narrative whilst they are always playing catch up is not.
Hyping up Mueller, was a stupid idea. So was making a political play to trust the FBI lead by Wray who was also hand picked by Trump to investigate Kav during confirmation hearings was also a dumb idea,
Finding people guilty of something is one thing. Getting embarrassed for asking the question if they are or not is another. Shouldn't be hard to play the same constant investigation game given the GOP has been doing it since 94 now. The GOP doesn't defer to outside sources in politics to reach conclusions they want them to reach. They don't even trust other republicans to do this unless they fully in the tank with them
SC Office also just threatened Jerome Corsi with indictment and the Stone case is still developing. The timing is odd.
The minute that tweet came out after Barr was nominated that the investigation would now be shutdown and immediately after the rumor of it being done on CNN we all had our suspicion something wasn't right and here we are with our worst frees come true and no way to remedy it beyond voting him out.
We won't get a full unredacted report until around December because of ongoing court cases - Roger Stone's trial is in November. So don't hold your breath.
Also, bear in mind the narrowness of Mueller's brief. It did not, for example, touch on any conspiracy with Russia other than about the election interference (so not on Ukraine policy, not on backdoor campaign contributions) or other than by the Trump campaign (so not by the RNC or the NRA). So there may be more to come, but not with a Mueller stamp on it.
Also, bear in mind the narrowness of Mueller's brief. It did not, for example, touch on any conspiracy with Russia other than about the election interference (so not on Ukraine policy, not on backdoor campaign contributions) or other than by the Trump campaign (so not by the RNC or the NRA). So there may be more to come, but not with a Mueller stamp on it.
Democrats are held to a different standard by the media. It's unfair, but not sure how it can be fixed.
At least with Mueller done, the other investigations are free to make a move on the Trump family(hopefully)
Make the media more representative of the general populace.
The media is largely white and male. What political party is largely white and male - and thus receives the media's sympathy?
Fuck.
Considering there's still ongoing court cases, does it even make sense to you, phisheep, that they closed the investigation?
Hadn't thought of that.
Unless Trump goes nuclear and gives everyone a full pardon.
You all should re-read this.
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/congress/article221221485.html
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/congress/article221221485.html
There are a lot of ways to find out impropriety on the count of Barr, Rosenstein, and anyone involved. You can subpoena Mueller and Barr and every lawyer on Mueller's team, you can subpoena every actor involved (notably Rick Gates and Michael Flynn and George Nader) and ask them about their Russia-specific knowledge of potential collusion under threat of perjury. And much more of course.
Too many hands on this to completely hide away anything improper behavior on the part of Barr forever.
Media companies would probably hire people like Paris Dennard tbh. Then you have people like Van Jones.
That won't change anything as long as the people running these networks are in charge
The for profit media likes chaos and likes madness and they'll hire people who help stir shit because it makes them more money when they do
Sure he would. He's a company man through and through. He also punted any decision on obstruction and refused to take a stance.
That's not going to help much so long as the networks themselves have a certain agenda. Fox News could have representation the better reflects the demographics of the US but it will still be a horrible network.
Hard to tell on what little we've got. Although none of the cases are directly about Russian collusion I'd have expected some delay while they sift through Stone's treasure trove and whatever Miller might have coughed up. There's clearly a lot of obstructive fuckery going on. Unless they've managed to trawl through all of Stone's stuff already and found nothing it seems a bit early.
But I can't tell on what basis they made that determination. It might be that the Trump campaign was just too disorganised to co-ordinate with anyone despite multiple offers of Russian assistance.
I know, I'm responding to people saying Mueller was shut down by Barr.
Mueller threatened to resign over the wire tapping issue. If he thought Trump was a traitor and Barr was helping him get away with I don't think he would just sit on hands. Not to mention all the investigators working under him, shit would leak.
I was reading this report from a local news station:
https://wtvr.com/2019/03/24/mueller-reports-finds-trump-did-not-conspire-with-russia/
So Kilimnik/Manafort and Rick Gates' involvement with it (he was the only other Trump official at their meetings) were apparently not enough to go after in terms of conspiracy of the Trump campaign with Russia (Barr/Rosenstein/Mueller are still really going to have explain this one), but there are all involved in ongoing investigations?
Yeah, I'm going to want that full report and until then I'm also going to want to know some more details on what's going on with Rick Gates and Paul Manafort on the Russian equation of things - the only one involving both that we still don't know about. Well, inauguration too but notably the Kilimnik hand-off of data right in the midst of the '16 primary.
https://wtvr.com/2019/03/24/mueller-reports-finds-trump-did-not-conspire-with-russia/
[...]
While Mueller's investigation is over, several criminal investigations are still ongoing.
They relate to an alleged Russian conspiracy to blast political propaganda across Americans' social media networks; Manafort's political colleague from Russia, Konstantin Kilimnik; and what Manafort's deputy and a central Trump political player, Rick Gates, knows, according to court records.
Another is a grand jury's pursuit of documents from a company owned by a foreign government. That subpoena for documents began with Mueller last year.
The DC US Attorney's Office will pick up many of the open court cases, including Gates and former Trump adviser Roger Stone. And the US Attorney's Office in Manhattan continues to look into Trump's inauguration and allegations waged by Trump's former attorney and fixer Michael Cohen.
So Kilimnik/Manafort and Rick Gates' involvement with it (he was the only other Trump official at their meetings) were apparently not enough to go after in terms of conspiracy of the Trump campaign with Russia (Barr/Rosenstein/Mueller are still really going to have explain this one), but there are all involved in ongoing investigations?
Yeah, I'm going to want that full report and until then I'm also going to want to know some more details on what's going on with Rick Gates and Paul Manafort on the Russian equation of things - the only one involving both that we still don't know about. Well, inauguration too but notably the Kilimnik hand-off of data right in the midst of the '16 primary.
Why do people even care what amounts to an insignificant amount of the voting population thinks?
I know there is a small group of people on ERA who follow them, but again, they are like a nothing % of the voting population. Their insane views literally mean nothing outside of the internet sphere.
I'm having similar thoughts.
I'm willing to accept there was no overt collusion with the Russian government, but all we got today was basically "No Collusion" with no underline information or evidence supporting that conclusion. And even more bizarrely the "No Collusion" sentence was in a footnote and wasn't the lead of the letter. So absolutely no questions were answered about why we saw so much smoke but supposedly there wasn't a fire. The DoJ just drip drip dripping 4 page summaries over the next several weeks isn't going to be enough. We do need the full report. Congress needs the raw classified report and the public needs the redacted report.
I have no major qualms with Mueller. Despite my disappointment, I think he ran a thorough investigation and he wasn't just trying to paper over potentially criminal / bad behavior. That said, I think there are two areas where Mueller dropped the ball.
1). Mueller should have subpoenaed Trump to a sit-down interview
2). Instead of leaving the Obstruction of Justice question to be answered by the DoJ AG, Mueller should have explicitly said that's a question for Congress and referred the matter to them. This would have prevented Trump's hand-picked AG from quickly dismissing obstruction of justice.
Trump, the GOP, and conservatives have a huge head start on the narrative thanks to Barr. But I think things will be more murky if the full report comes out within the next month or so. It doesn't seem there's enough to impeach Trump, but there's probably definitely enough in there that could seriously damage Trump's 2020 reelection chances and give legitimacy to further DEM House investigations.
But definitely by the hour, it's becoming way more obvious the full Mueller Report needs to come out asap. Though it's going to be a race between the "Release the Full Report" movement and the "It's Time to Move On" movement. The GOP is already ramping up messaging on the latter, so Dems and the media really need to apply immediate pressure for its release before it's hand-waved away.
You know something's up when even Trump's own lawyers are surprised at such a good outcome.
I know it's not gonna happen, but it would be so fuckin funny if a shoe dropped tomorrow after all the hannitys and don jrs of the world had their day on twitter
I've given up on justice prevailing in this shithole of a country. I need to get out.
I agree. Mueller also threatened to resign over the US Attorney firing scandal.
Also, I would be fucking pissed if Beto walked on my car roof. Hopefully that's his own ride.
This is where I am; we have the most weasily-worded letter seemingly DESIGNED to not lie about Mueller & Co.'s findings while also allowing the RW Lie Machine to have their hopespot horseshit and the newsmedia to derp their way into spreading it. Especially obstruction, but conspiracy against the US for Individual-1 is pretty shaky as well, not to mention everyone else Not A President.
I expected Barr to be liable to trying to soft-land the GOP in this but this level of obvious exclusion? This at MOST could buy mere days before the redacted full report lands. Why would he fall on his sword like this? (see below quote response)
And what happens when the full thing hits and we have to cut thru this cruft with daming implications? Further indictments from various branches of the DoJ? States? Sealed SC indictments? They're already trial ballooning handwave messaging. We're pissed and frustrated, they ain't in the clear. Nobody wins. Nobody.
I am so, so tired of this. There is something about Individual-1 that makes him both so hard to end with his bullshit asspulls but also constantly has him inadvertantly sabotaging his and his crew's getaways. Everyone ends up having to pull themselves thru broken glass again and again and again.
I'd put some of 1 in that as well. Helsinki, selling nuclear secrets to the ME, the changing Ukraine pledge during the RNC, many many mystery meetings with Russians known to be government/spy/mob, and last but not least: everyone lying their asses off about it, including Individual-1.
Barring Barr's wouldnt-fool-a-child excuse, we still have what is a puppet in the whitehouse with some real power left to him who has been attacking things for two years. Not just "come at the king you best not miss" but as a national security threat.
I'm kind of stunned that this is the common sentiment after so many freaking indictments and people in jail that this investigation wrought about.
But then it finishes and we don't even get the whole report and suddenly everybody loses their minds because Mueller didn't indict Trump or call him a criminal. I mean, that was never gonna happen regardless.
Those guys have always had their heads crammed squarely up their own asses.
Yeah, he also said it was fine if you accused him of having allegiance to Israel
For a while now I've always believed that Mueller was the guy sucking up all of the available air. Everyone, definitely including Congress here, was constantly waiting for Mueller which fueled his legend and reinforced that they should wait. Self sustaining cycle.
Now that that's over with, wouldn't be surprised to see an eventful couple weeks.
I know, my crazy fantasy...
Barr working with Mueller, they release a bogus report so the fbi can continue their counter intelligence investigation on Trump while he's relaxed ..... I can dream can't I?
A bunch of nobody small fries while the real criminals get away laughing doesn't exactly feel like justice to me.
We know SDNY waited for Mueller to finish with Manafort before charging him. Curious if they will feel free to start indicting now. I just want a damn Don Jr indictment. Is that too much to ask for? Lol
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