It doesn't actually mean more than that! You're creating a completely new definition lol
US PoliEra 2020 |OT 1| THE ANTI BENGHAZI (Read Staff Post)
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No, I'm not. Do you see Fox News speak about that shit out 24/7 today? Or MSNBC? Or CNN?
Fox's poll has Biden up by 1 and Bernie down by 3 against Trump with 45+ voters. How is that "toxic" with older voters? Yes, Biden does better. But saying that he's "toxic" with older voters based on the demos of how people are gonna vote in the Dem primary seems insane.
This whole discussion started because Mr. McMuffin posted a tweet saying how it would be dangerous for the Dems to nominate a candidate promising Revolution to an electorate largely satisfied with the current state of a good economy, who mostly want the same as it is just without Trumps bullshit, and I think the original concern still stands because in the minds of a lot of middle aged swing state voters that's a big consideration.
Again — when you say "he hasn't been vetted", what you really mean is you think people will care about this this thing that no one has thus far cared about and was a wet fart in 2016. There's no reason to think that suddenly there'd be some ad based on something in Bernie's past life that would be the silver bullet that would destroy this candidacy.
As a candidate Bernie is highly vulnerable for people to put damning words of his in ads. He refuses to adjust his words for public consumption so they don't come back on him.
That's not what vetting means oh my god. You mean something different so use a different word.
Okay now this is bullshit.
There have been plenty of accusations. It's just most people don't care.
People will care when he's the nominee and it's all over the news networks and in political ads. There's a massive difference in coverage between the primaries and the general.
You knew what I meant, which I clarified yet you refuse to see this as something as a threat to Bernie. That's something Bernie can't afford were he the nominee.
That would be correct, yes. Not that it excuses his behavior, but at least he probably isn't a rapist unlike our President.
"People will care" based on...? You're own intuition? This being the crux of the 2016 campaign? Again, this is either wishcasting or just hypersensitivity towards any issue that exists in a candidate's past — the reason I don't care is because all of the major candidates right now have some issues you could "make ads about". It's pretty easy to imagine an ad campaign against Biden to depress black and youth turnout with, well, his words. I don't really care because I sort of view all of this as pretty equal issues (or non issues) for all of the top 3 candidates.
I mean it's a point now you've replied to a few times so I do think you kind of care about the idea that Bernie isn't vetted.
I'm still curious about this chorus of Bernie supporters that have seemingly readily admitted he can't win Florida at all.
If one legitimately believes there is any universe in which the fallout from Biden telling young kids to "get over it" (or whatever stupid thing he said about the youth complaining) would be in anyway, shape or form equal to the fall out from a single attack ad where someone running for President of the United States wrote, under his own name, that it is unfortunate we do not let children be naked around each other....then you either know no one who is a parent or have a way better weed guy than I do.
Thank you for picking an example I never would have made to make your own point.
hey — circling back on this, still looking for those chorus of Bernie supporters who freely admit he can't with Florida or how a 4% difference in 45+ voters makes Bernie "toxic" to the olds.
I think Bernie is a good GE because he really doesn't have any garbage indefensible votes for basically most of his career
I don't think Biden will lose but I'm worried about his lead shrinking when people are reminded of all the terrible votes he has that also damaged Hillary in swing states. Him supporting NAFTA, the TPP, Iraq, praising Paul Ryan for trying to cut social security, not giving a fuck about even trying to make it look like he's interested in fixing money in politics etc are all making me nervous. This is the sort of stuff that allowed Trump to some weird swing voters think he was more progressive in someways. Trump has no way to outflank Sanders the same way
but then again idk, Biden has also been lying out of his ass about all of this and people seemed to have bought it so far
I'm kind of moreso worried about Biden's record and history moreso than Bernie's weird college essays or whatever being a negative weight when this all shakes down in November
I don't think Biden will lose but I'm worried about his lead shrinking when people are reminded of all the terrible votes he has that also damaged Hillary in swing states. Him supporting NAFTA, the TPP, Iraq, praising Paul Ryan for trying to cut social security, not giving a fuck about even trying to make it look like he's interested in fixing money in politics etc are all making me nervous. This is the sort of stuff that allowed Trump to some weird swing voters think he was more progressive in someways. Trump has no way to outflank Sanders the same way
but then again idk, Biden has also been lying out of his ass about all of this and people seemed to have bought it so far
I'm kind of moreso worried about Biden's record and history moreso than Bernie's weird college essays or whatever being a negative weight when this all shakes down in November
To your first point, you literally just said you viewed these things as "pretty equal issues." If you want to revise that, and agree that an attack ad featuring Bernie's words re: a whole bunch of shit is more toxic than whatever shit Biden has said about young voters, then we'll be in agreement.
Feel free to look through the tread. Several Bernie supporters, and those of us who have not supported him, have said, that in relation to Bernie's chances in Florida. Bernie is in no way a good fit for Florida.
A 4% difference is pretty damn substantial, especially in states with a high proportion of older voters. If you want to win Arizona, it is far more likely if your candidate runs stronger among older voters than not.Given the choice between a candidate who runs stronger among the youth or the olds, I'm going with the olds every day of the week. Socialism is not popular among the olds. "Revolution" is not popular among the olds. The olds are not going to line up for people to attack their Medicare. These are not controversial opinions.
And, since we're posing specific questions to each other, which swing states is Bernie more likely to win/do better in than Biden?
Almost all recent polling has Sanders increasing while Biden is dropping overall, this is a trend. In places like Iowa many voters are starting to reach decisions and more will be doing so with time. What is suggested to have been happening is a combination of Sanders converting voters from others and that more later deciders are splitting for Sanders than other candidates in Iowa. Not too long ago you were probably saying that Sanders had no chance to recover following his heart attack, yet here we are. We'll be having different conversations based on the numbers two weeks from now.
And Sanders numbers with +45s aren't that bad when you look at H2H.
He has some of the best H2H numbers against Trump. Usually second only (by a hair) to Biden as things stand today.
I completely agree, the sexual harassment allegations, complementing and eulogizing Pro lynching politicians, praising cutting social security, Obama's SOD saying that Biden has been wrong on foreign policy for 4 decades, saying that even knowing how Iraq turned out, he still would have voted yes, and all those videos of him touching women against their will might be used against him on top of all the lies he has been caught in and is still being caught in. Still waiting on anyone supporting this candidate to tell me how these things won't be a concern in the general election.
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4% is in the MOE lol
which Bernie supporters? I have never seen a large swath of Bernie supporters "freely admitting" that Bernie would lose Florida. You said it so I'd love to see examples.
I do think Biden voting for the crime bill, his attitudes towards busing, his attitudes in general towards civil rights at the start of his career, his Iraq war vote, are huge liabilities for him towards younger and young POC voters. Again, you made up an example I never said! I do think those are just as, if not more powerful, issues for these voter for whatever fantasy this Bernie ad that will somehow be a silver bullet against him for suburban moms but okay.
and I also posted about electability, you're welcome to scroll through my content on these very few last pages!
That is patently false?
Biden's numbers have remained very, very stable, and Bernie's rise consists of some 2%.
Yas king of Oakland County.
Only in the oceans, dear.
That is patently false?
Biden's numbers have remained very, very stable, and Bernie's rise consists of some 2%.
I'm talking about his lead. We're also seeing more movement in the updated state level polls.
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From the '16 election. All candidates are vulnerable to this but you unconcerned about this being weaponised against Bernie a though he hasn't got skeletons which can hurt him. This is about you this is about the electorate and Bernie Sanders, he won't be hailed as an all conquering hero by everyone immediately. You saw what they did to Hillary, they're going to do the same to anyone so I suggest start being more concerned when it comes to your own candidate in those crosshairs. Why did you "put ads about" in quotes? Do you follow politics at all? That's what happens when candidates fuck up with optics, or have compromised footage. Stop redirecting this to Biden, we're talking about Bernie. If you're having trouble with this scrutiny from me you're going to have an aneurysm when Bernie becomes the nominee when the spotlight is on him.
Is this supposed to be a gotcha? lol I dislike Biden as much as Bernie. Yes, that could hurt him in the general, what do you want Bernie to do when its his turn in the spotlight?
While I certainly disagree with Kaitos, he's not naive about politics so he doesn't need to be 'splained what the GOP will attempt to do.
I disagree solely on how effective certain lines of attack will be, and I think it's a hell of a lot easier to paint Bernie than Biden, simply because Biden is both more well known and people already have their own version of him in their mind.
I disagree solely on how effective certain lines of attack will be, and I think it's a hell of a lot easier to paint Bernie than Biden, simply because Biden is both more well known and people already have their own version of him in their mind.
Trouble? What? Lol. I brought up Biden because Bernie isn't the only one who has ads that can be made about him! Like, what, you think Biden becomes the nominee and nothing he says will be used against him? My entire point is that I think most of what's in the top 3 Dem's pasts is sort of a wash in terms of — here come the quotes again— "ads made against them". I follow this stuff. I know what I'm talking about and I'm not sure if you actually followed my post.
You can disagree with me, sounds like you do, but oh well. Good chat.
I disagree with you here but I would never say you don't know what you're talking about, you obviously follow electoral politics and policy to a point that's very sophisticated. I just happen to disagree with you substantially but that's fine, we'll end up voting for the same candidate in the end comrade.
The funny thing is that Bernie's edge with young latin@s actually gives him a shot in FL. Cant be worse than Abuela, right?
Correct! We totally will. Plus, it's totally possible, as we've shown, to disagree without being disagreeable. So good job us. Ten points to whichever house you prefer.
We just gotta fucking win. I legitimately don't care with whom. Just...a warm body is all I need.
Or a weekend at bernie's type situation is fine too. Just....maybe not with literal Bernie.
oh look hes doing exactly what you'd expect given that he hired people who hate the party
Everyone should be doing this against everyone else. It's an election. You should want to win
Florida is full of old people, it's the retirement capital of America.
it's fine. they're running against each other, dude. and frankly it's not mean at all.
Actually this is a bad take and illustrates a lack of familiarity with the nuances of Florida's demographics.
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