US PoliEra 2020 |OT 1| THE ANTI BENGHAZI (Read Staff Post)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
16,562
All of the above. Dirtbag left originated via Chapo, then spread all over the movement. I wouldn't thought you know this history. It is your responsibility to call them out, they're in your movement.
"Dirtbag left" is used by leftists, liberals, moderates, conservatives, and everything in between to mean different things. It is meaningless without context. Some people use it jokingly, some use it to smear leftists. I understand its origin from Chapo, please do not attempt to lecture me on leftism, it is extremely condescending. Don't act like I shield or refuse to criticize people being racist either, no matter what their ideology is.

You've literally been dealing with this issue of minorities being offput by the attitudes of majoritarian "socialists" for over a hundred years. I can go dig up the passage from "The Populist Movement" if you want later. This is not a new thing. This is something you need to actively address rather than go "no true scotsman" on because if you don't understand the problem and don't self-police, it will continue to be the same problem it's always been.
Kirblar, this is completely ahistorical. Leftism has had massive movements from minority groups both in America and around the world. If socialism has an issue with alienating minority groups, it isn't any more true than any other ideology. I am not saying socialists who are racists are not socialists. There are minority leftists who actually make these critiques! Here's a good video that touches on it:


But I have no interest in publicly self-flagellating myself over the issues of racism and misogyny in leftism, ultimately. If there are issues within leftist communities regarding this, then that is where I will tackle it.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
"Dirtbag left" is used by leftists, liberals, moderates, conservatives, and everything in between to mean different things. It is meaningless without context. Some people use it jokingly, some use it to smear leftists.
Maybe it is but in this conversation it's being used in good faith. It's not like Chapo and Dirtbag Left don't have a problematic history. I, and others, have given you plenty of proper context.

I understand its origin from Chapo, please do not attempt to lecture me on leftism, it is extremely condescending.
Then don't act like you don't know who they are.

Don't act like I shield or refuse to criticize people being racist either, no matter what their ideology is.
I'm unimpressed from what I've seen.

I have no idea what/who either of those are. But I listen to political podcasts daily.
Frost is a founding member of the Chapo podcast and an infamous tank ie.

 

Chitown B

Member
Nov 15, 2017
5,056
OP
OP
TheHunter

TheHunter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,319
"Dirtbag left" is used by leftists, liberals, moderates, conservatives, and everything in between to mean different things. It is meaningless without context. Some people use it jokingly, some use it to smear leftists. I understand its origin from Chapo, please do not attempt to lecture me on leftism, it is extremely condescending. Don't act like I shield or refuse to criticize people being racist either, no matter what their ideology is.



Kirblar, this is completely ahistorical. Leftism has had massive movements from minority groups both in America and around the world. If socialism has an issue with alienating minority groups, it isn't any more true than any other ideology. I am not saying socialists who are racists are not socialists. There are minority leftists who actually make these critiques! Here's a good video that touches on it:


But I have no interest in publicly self-flagellating myself over the issues of racism and misogyny in leftism, ultimately. If there are issues within leftist communities regarding this, then that is where I will tackle it.
Then we're on the same side and you're getting mad at me for nothing?
 

AdrianG4

Member
Oct 29, 2017
520
User Banned (1 Month): Misrepresenting Prior Bans to Attack Another User, History of Hostility
why are we "leftists" getting morally lectured from people who have been banned on this forum for having a sadistic viewpoint on the murdering of innocent Muslim people and calling for an outright ban on Chinese people into the country?

Do not engage with people with garbage, dehumanizing viewpoints, people. They'll go away eventually.
 

Scottt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,341
Okay, I have traveled the information superhighway and now know what those words mean. I don't think those organizations or people are emblematic of "the left."
 

Kaitos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,212
WOW -- Clinton only did 4,000 votes worse than Obama in Staten Island, but Trump did 27,000 votes better than Romney in the island. jfc.

EDIT: lmao I just read the last few pages what did I miss.
 
OP
OP
TheHunter

TheHunter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,319
My frustration was you discussing things that happened in the socialism OT in another thread. I considered it inappropriate. If you feel differently then we will disagree.
I only brought it up because you folks were there in that convo. It wasn't meant to beat the community up.

I warned you guys those types we're eventually gonna rear there heads. Sure enough here were are comparing Warren to Hillary and saying she's a snake.

She seems more like a hurt friend than a bitter political move imo from that sound bite.
 

Kaitos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,212
Neither Bernie nor Warren have impressive electoral records at all, save for Bernie's initial mayoral election.
 

Scottt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,341
WOW -- Clinton only did 4,000 votes worse than Obama in Staten Island, but Trump did 27,000 votes better than Romney in the island. jfc.

EDIT: lmao I just read the last few pages what did I miss.
I just went to Wikipedia to read about this.

"The main political divide in the borough is demarcated by the Staten Island Expressway; areas north of the Expressway tend to be more liberal while the south tends to be more conservative."

It is so weird how these kinds of divides come about.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
why are we "leftists" getting morally lectured from people who have been banned on this forum for having a sadistic viewpoint on the murdering of innocent Muslim people and calling for an outright ban on Chinese people into the country?

Do not engage with people with garbage, dehumanizing viewpoints, people. They'll go away eventually.
what
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
Kirblar has been banned for his viewpoints of killing Muslim people.

Itchy has been banned for calling on a ban of Chinese people (my wife) from entering the United States.
okay thanks for the clarification

the only reason I’ve been banned is for pointing out true facts and for commenting on a moderator saying he (redacted) (redacted) policies to (redacted) so let me say you guys should try harder to be less racist
 

Slader166

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,611
Phoenix, AZ
I think I'd put more stock into the heart surgeon who graduated from Harvard Medical School (winning as an independent socialist in a midterm for an office held by republicans for 30 years) over the one who studied at a community college (winning as a democrat in a general election in Massachusetts)

Wait what's wrong with community college 😢
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,154
I've only been banned for participating in a contest where I got snapped.

Also Klobs got the best electoral record.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,975
it's just sooooo interesting to me to see how quickly folks who purport to be socialists fall back into classism, especially in this case when bernie's whole appeal is he's supposed to be normal compared to all the wealthy ivy league elites or whatever (it's also soooo interesting that harvard was chosen as the school for the example, because between warren and bernie i definitely associate harvard with bernie!)
 
Reminder regarding forum hostility

ColdSun

☠️ Astra inclinant, sed non obligant. ☠️
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
1,221
Official Staff Communication
Arguing and discussing opposing viewpoints is an important and integral part of having a healthy discussion. The current trend of open hostility among fellow members, however, is absolutely not allowed and needs to stop.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
it's just sooooo interesting to me to see how quickly folks who purport to be socialists fall back into classism, especially in this case when bernie's whole appeal is he's supposed to be normal compared to all the wealthy ivy league elites or whatever (it's also soooo interesting that harvard was chosen as the school for the example, because between warren and bernie i definitely associate harvard with bernie!)
everybody hates the PMC until they need open heart surgery
 

GiantBreadbug

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,745
it's just sooooo interesting to me to see how quickly folks who purport to be socialists fall back into classism, especially in this case when bernie's whole appeal is he's supposed to be normal compared to all the wealthy ivy league elites or whatever (it's also soooo interesting that harvard was chosen as the school for the example, because between warren and bernie i definitely associate harvard with bernie!)
Trying to cut this word out of my diet, but the media description of voting blocs as "better educated" (having a college degree) is really a bit of a dogwhistle that's supposed to invoke feelings of "oh they're smart and know what they're talking about" but actually practically is something more like "people who know just as little as everyone else but paid $50000 for a cool piece of paper that makes them more Enlightened."

It's a kind of voter that seems at least to me to sometimes be tremendously thin-skinned. Which is why pointing out Warren's base being white and Better Educated causes a lot of them feel like they're having a self-perceived moral high ground flipped around and exposed as pretty meaningless in a political context.

I have a great friend who grew up with very little and community college was his way to get back into higher ed. after life circumstances made him quit. My father never went to college and works very hard for his family, and I had a better childhood than most in my state because of that. My mother went to a state school from a poor family and now does great things as a social worker. Everyone has a different path to the future they want to create for themselves and others, so seeing this kind of sneering from some folks is disheartening to say the least.

The idea that educational elitism has drip dropped down all the way from ivy-leaguers to even just people who simply have any bachelor's degree is pretty nauseating and I hate it.
 
Last edited:

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,090
Kirblar, this is completely ahistorical. Leftism has had massive movements from minority groups both in America and around the world. If socialism has an issue with alienating minority groups, it isn't any more true than any other ideology. I am not saying socialists who are racists are not socialists. There are minority leftists who actually make these critiques! Here's a good video that touches on it:


But I have no interest in publicly self-flagellating myself over the issues of racism and misogyny in leftism, ultimately. If there are issues within leftist communities regarding this, then that is where I will tackle it.
It absolutely is not ahistorical! There's another portion of the book I couldn't find online, I'll have to use my phone to grab it later, but the book dives into these intra-left white/black conflicts repeatedly. This passage is talking about 1889-1890

This also very much came up with Jewish people and the socialist movement in Europe, where it turned out "no, anti-semitism still very much persists regardless of the economics involved!" And it is more true than other ideologies, because the "class is the root of all evil" thesis runs directly counter to these groups' lived experiences.
Kirblar has been banned for his viewpoints of killing Muslim people.

Itchy has been banned for calling on a ban of Chinese people (my wife) from entering the United States.
No I fucking haven't. If you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, don't say anything!

The ban re: Muslim issues was me making a point about religions with singing cultures (like say, the Gospel tradition) developing those skillsets in a population leading to having more singers around very, very badly and I totally deserved the smack because I completely mangled what I was trying to say in a way that was genuinely offensive.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.