We need to have a discussion about how members treat other members on this site and among other issues.

[Ogodei]

So again I'm a pretty negative person... but right after Trump was elected 50% of threads on teh front page at the time were dedicated to trump. I remember one thing in particular was a random story about how tom cruise has larger hands than trump. You can totally hate trump while also pointing out, alright guys we get it he sucks do we have to post LITERALLY every single nitpick. When you say something like this, it immediately gets you labeled a trump apologist or a trump supporter, it's nuts. An article on Trumps hands compared to tom cruises seems bordering on obsessive to me. I see this said a lot, but people will say "there is plenty trump does to actually slam him on" and I completely agree with this statement, but apparently not wanting to know who has bigger hands, him or a random celebrity makes you an evil trump supporter. Funny because I'm not sure I could like the guy any less. That leap needs to cool off on immediately labeling someone sexist, bootlicker, trumper, alt righter, etc. when it's something as benign as that.

Click to shrink...

There was a time when people were desperate for something, anything, to throw at Trump. This being before we knew too much concretely about the Mueller investigation or before Trump had shown his ass on Fox & Friends one too many times. 2017 seemed Trump-obsessed because everyone who understood the implications of his win (and wasn't on his side) were going through a certain degree of trauma and working through it in real time.

You notice that that kind of obsessive Trump-posting is gone. He still gets posted about a lot but now for substantive reasons, something shitty he said or did, rather than celebrity hot takes or random bullshit.

 

[msdstc]

There was a time when people were desperate for something, anything, to throw at Trump. This being before we knew too much concretely about the Mueller investigation or before Trump had shown his ass on Fox & Friends one too many times. 2017 seemed Trump-obsessed because everyone who understood the implications of his win (and wasn't on his side) were going through a certain degree of trauma and working through it in real time.

You notice that that kind of obsessive Trump-posting is gone. He still gets posted about a lot but now for substantive reasons, something shitty he said or did, rather than celebrity hot takes or random bullshit.

Click to shrink...

No I disagree with this, there was more than enough fodder by the time he won. Also the obsessive random posting absolutely still happens. It comes across as thirsty and reaching to me when you absolutely don't have to reach with trump, he's very plainly and outwardly awful.

Edit- it also doesn't make you a trump defender or an alt righter to say an article about his hands vs. tom cruises is a waste of time.

 

[msdstc]

^ Did someone actually call another person this in this context? Or is it an example of what you said earlier (first quote)?

Click to shrink...

Back at the peak of the trumpsanity I suggested we have a catch all thread. I had a screenshot of threads on the ot front page it was roughly 50% trump threads which makes sense, but there was one on some "expert" weighing in on his hair pattern and if it was a wig or not, one about his hand size vs. Tom cruises and how that's embarrassing for him, and one about something to do with his personal taste of food or something along those lines. When I suggested a trump catch all thread I was shouted down as alt right or a trump supporter. I've been called a trump supporter a ton on this site and I've seen plenty of people have the same happen when they're the exact opposite. Some of the leaps are incredible to witness.

This all being said I was thread whining, but I personally found it again, came across as obsessive and nitpicky when there were already a million other things to hate him for and actually discuss. I see a lot of other people who feel this way but it's not a very popular opinion on this forum it gets dumped on a lot. Again not a huge deal it's more a minor example of some of the jumping the forum does. It can be extrapolated out to basically all threads. We get dog piles and absolutist labels in fast food threads ffs haha.

 

[Ogodei]

No I disagree with this, there was more than enough fodder by the time he won. Also the obsessive random posting absolutely still happens. It comes across as thirsty and reaching to me when you absolutely don't have to reach with trump, he's very plainly and outwardly awful.

Edit- it also doesn't make you a trump defender or an alt righter to say an article about his hands vs. tom cruises is a waste of time.

Click to shrink...

Him winning made it seem like all of the bad stuff about him didn't matter. That's what was traumatizing about it. All his nastiness and petulance rewarded, so yes, people did start reaching, until it started to seem like he wasn't invincible again.

I agree with your main point that people intuit hostile intent where there is none (that's a massive issue driving the schism between the Bernie-supporting and non-Bernie-supporting Democrats on this board, for one), but it helps to understand that threads like that were meant to be therapeutic.

 

[Deleted member 3093]

The absolute drive from some posters to accuse someone of being racist/sexist/homophobic, and the effort that goes into manipulating a seemingly innocuous statement is insane here.

People can't wait to level accusations at each other from outright "You're a racist because of x,y,z" to the snarky, passive-aggressive "suss" or "showing your ass" comments on literally any topic or comment. There's little to no sense of community here compared to heydays of GAF (before it went off the rails). Myself and multiple other posters rarely, if ever, make threads anymore because it's almost a guarantee that no matter what the topic, it will devolve into attacks and accusations—often completely unwarranted.

Click to shrink...

On the flip side, refer to Kyuuji's receipts on Reverse Giraffe to understand how not good it is to just blindly assume that someone who gripes about the outrage machine is being entirely truthful.

 

[msdstc]

Him winning made it seem like all of the bad stuff about him didn't matter. That's what was traumatizing about it. All his nastiness and petulance rewarded, so yes, people did start reaching, until it started to seem like he wasn't invincible again.

I agree with your main point that people intuit hostile intent where there is none (that's a massive issue driving the schism between the Bernie-supporting and non-Bernie-supporting Democrats on this board, for one), but it helps to understand that threads like that were meant to be therapeutic.

Click to shrink...

Oh yeah you brought up Bernie! I'm actually very much on the Bernie train. When Bernie had his heart attack I was deeply concerned about his health and his ability to campaign and how the gop would target him hard on this. He mentioned scaling back and I said something along the lines of, well it stinks but worst case scenario he dips hard we have Elizabeth Warren this time to pick up the slack (the more I read the more I've soured a bit on Warren, but she's still infinitely better than Biden). Anyways when I said this might be the end of the road for Bernie I got called a trumper or a concern troll... I was told it was plain and obvious I never liked Bernie. That is absurdly false, I've been Bernie for the last 2 elections. I voted Bernie in the primary, obviously voted Hillary against trump, but regardless there's that projecting and labeling when people are in fact wrong. Me saying it's bad for Bernie's campaign is not concern trolling , it's not an alt right play, it's not trump related at all... It's simply my thinking that it's not great for his campaign. In fact anybody saying it was very bad news was getting shouted down.

 

[Kyuuji]

Psst: The reason it's so effective is because you can't isolate or identify it in a single post, people can immediately play the aggrieved party effectively -- to the point where entire threads will defend them and others like them -- and people don't have the time to write 1,000+ words to detail the pattern of each case just so we don't get told to hush or that we're being too critical.

 

[Lunaray]

Two things that worry me:

1. Group think - if you disagree or even lightly pushback or simply question on whatever, you are a monster.

2. The forum used as a group therapy thing. It's the LGBT+ who usually want a supportive place a 100% of the time, but there's an awful lot of posters just pouring their inner feelings that's... ah dunno. Not healthy?

Like, like you can have a forum to discuss things or a group therapy thing, but not both at the same time.

I wish Era would pick one rail. Because you cant have a discussion about anything but expect support 100% of the time, then you dont really want discussion, you want group therapy. Which is ok. But trying to be both a discussion place and a 100% support group place is just going to lead to hurt feelings and misunderstandings.

Also? Cant help but point out that nobody here that I know of is a licensed therapist and there's people here with really big important mental problems asking internet people for advice, who dont have the training to actually help and may end up making things worse.

Edit: I just saw I'm the second person to mention the support group thing so I'm glad I'm not imagining things.

Click to shrink...

I think it's possible to do both. One suggestion is having optional thread tags which designates the thread's intention. You can designate tags like [Discussion] and tags like [Support], and the tag makes it absolutely clear what the intention and tone of the thread is and the moderation can be adjudicated appropriately to support and enforce an environment that is conducive to whatever the intent of the thread was.

 

[thewienke]

I think it's possible to do both. One suggestion is having optional thread tags which designates the thread's intention. You can designate tags like [Discussion] and tags like [Support], and the tag makes it absolutely clear what the intention and tone of the thread is and the moderation can be adjudicated appropriately to support and enforce an environment that is conducive to whatever the intent of the thread was.

Click to shrink...

I think that's a great idea and the OP can determine which tag to use to direct the conversation.

Sometimes people just want to be angry and commiserate without contrarians and that's okay. Or people want a safe space to discuss minority issues without educating this that and the other on the topic. Then those threads could be moderated far more strictly without "see staff post" or whatever.

On the opposite end, we have things like sports threads that I think should have a "your skin must be this thick" to enter (within reason). Those threads are closer to hanging out at the local sports bar or pub so there's going to be a lot more disrespect and ribbing (again, within reason).

 

[Manu]

The absolute drive from some posters to accuse someone of being racist/sexist/homophobic, and the effort that goes into manipulating a seemingly innocuous statement is insane here.

People can't wait to level accusations at each other from outright "You're a racist because of x,y,z" to the snarky, passive-aggressive "suss" or "showing your ass" comments on literally any topic or comment. There's little to no sense of community here compared to heydays of GAF (before it went off the rails). Myself and multiple other posters rarely, if ever, make threads anymore because it's almost a guarantee that no matter what the topic, it will devolve into attacks and accusations—often completely unwarranted.

Click to shrink...

This happens a lot here.

I also noticed that some users only seem to appear to do this and then never post elsewhere. You never see them in random threads talking about games or TV or Star Wars or whatever.

But on threads about sensitive issues they always appear like clockwork.

 

[Deleted member 2761]

I'm seeing a lot of posts complaining about hostility, especially from folks who don't like it when they're being challenged that they're acting racist, sexist, ablist, LGBTQIA-phobic, or what have you.

Era IS a hostile environment, but not for the reasons you think. If you go through most of your non-Era life unchallenged, perhaps consider that the people around you don't feel empowered to call you out on your bullshit. And perhaps consider that the reason a lot of these minorities are so hostile is because we are, in fact, outnumbered, and that we have to take on the emotional burden of tackling every single bullshit-couched-in-civility post that comes our way because we want to maintain that the semblance of this place being the accepting space we so dearly wish it actually was.

 

[Chrome Hyena]

The absolute drive from some posters to accuse someone of being racist/sexist/homophobic, and the effort that goes into manipulating a seemingly innocuous statement is insane here.

People can't wait to level accusations at each other from outright "You're a racist because of x,y,z" to the snarky, passive-aggressive "suss" or "showing your ass" comments on literally any topic or comment. There's little to no sense of community here compared to heydays of GAF (before it went off the rails). Myself and multiple other posters rarely, if ever, make threads anymore because it's almost a guarantee that no matter what the topic, it will devolve into attacks and accusations—often completely unwarranted.

Click to shrink...

Some people feel a right to post in any thread. And I mean any thread. There was a time when you posted in threads you had an interest in. If you hate someone, why go into a thread about that person? If you hate a game, why go into a thread trying to destroy said game? It all makes no sense to me tbh. But some folks have a holy crusade mentality where they feel their opinion just HAS to be shared.

 

[subpar spatula]

I think that's a great idea and the OP can determine which tag to use to direct the conversation.

Sometimes people just want to be angry and commiserate without contrarians and that's okay. Or people want a safe space to discuss minority issues without educating this that and the other on the topic. Then those threads could be moderated far more strictly without "see staff post" or whatever.

On the opposite end, we have things like sports threads that I think should have a "your skin must be this thick" to enter (within reason). Those threads are closer to hanging out at the local sports bar or pub so there's going to be a lot more disrespect and ribbing (again, within reason).

Click to shrink...

On paper this sounds nice, but in reality those threads will be on the second and later pages so quickly. Look at the Trans Day of Remembrance 2019 thread, it was posted on Tuesday and is only on post 86 as of Friday. It would have even less posts if it wasn't stickied to the top because it would be lost to the later pages of the forum. I suspect a lot of people will want to have more of a conversation regarding the issues they bring up, and if you heavily curate what can be said in those threads then people won't participate just because of their survival instincts. I believe important topics getting ignored was a big reason why ResetEra tried to push that large scale forum redo a while back.

 

[RedMercury]

No I disagree with this, there was more than enough fodder by the time he won. Also the obsessive random posting absolutely still happens. It comes across as thirsty and reaching to me when you absolutely don't have to reach with trump, he's very plainly and outwardly awful.

Edit- it also doesn't make you a trump defender or an alt righter to say an article about his hands vs. tom cruises is a waste of time.

Click to shrink...

I think there's a way to do it if you're framing it as the ills of the media, that's a fair point. It's just generally not a great look if people are dunking on Trump and someone wants to get in between and try to shut that down, because he's a piece of shit and his feelings shouldn't be spared, nor should the feeling of people in opposition to him be suppressed.

 

[Chrome Hyena]

I think that's a great idea and the OP can determine which tag to use to direct the conversation.

Sometimes people just want to be angry and commiserate without contrarians and that's okay. Or people want a safe space to discuss minority issues without educating this that and the other on the topic. Then those threads could be moderated far more strictly without "see staff post" or whatever.

On the opposite end, we have things like sports threads that I think should have a "your skin must be this thick" to enter (within reason). Those threads are closer to hanging out at the local sports bar or pub so there's going to be a lot more disrespect and ribbing (again, within reason).

Click to shrink...

I think all threads should be like that. And yes survival kicks in for lots of people I imagine in lots of threads.

I also think sometimes people should just use the ignore tool. It's there and it works. But what happens is someone says something offensive, and the entire thread is derailed as everyone feels it's their duty to put said person in their place.

 

[Apollo]

I'm seeing a lot of posts complaining about hostility, especially from folks who don't like it when they're being challenged that they're acting racist, sexist, ablist, LGBTQIA-phobic, or what have you.

Era IS a hostile environment, but not for the reasons you think. If you go through most of your non-Era life unchallenged, perhaps consider that the people around you don't feel empowered to call you out on your bullshit. And perhaps consider that the reason a lot of these minorities are so hostile is because we are, in fact, outnumbered, and that we have to take on the emotional burden of tackling every single bullshit-couched-in-civility post that comes our way because we want to maintain that the semblance of this place being the accepting space we so dearly wish it actually was.

Click to shrink...

Yuuup. Like, if I get harsh with someone on Era in a trans thread, it's usually because it honestly feels as if I can't afford not to. If we let an instance of transphobia slide, we're potentially sending the message that it's okay, and I know from experience that there are many on this site who are waiting for precisely that message.

 

[Fairxchange]

One of the general trends that I've observed on ResetEra, mostly in myself but in most participants as well, is that we tend to post too much. Too often we are content to insert ourselves into topics we know little about and issues removed from our own knowledge and interests due to the general sense of self-importance that having an easily accessed reply box at all times can create. More and more I attempt to practice temperance in when I post and how I post. I tend to be a bit rash, abrasive, and over-emotional when I post, and it's created a bad image of me on this site on both my former account (which I lost access to and sorted out with administration; it's now permabanned) and this one.

I think practicing this sort of deliberation in posting could benefit a lot of people, because the "groupthink" people talk about on this site is not at all a product of moderation. It is instead a product of our desire to follow the path of least resistance and, in many cases, to seem witty and biting with little substance. I think that this in particular is what has bothered you, OP.

Click to shrink...

Well put.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

It's because a lot of people on this forum have this virtual holier-than-thou mindset where anything beyond perfect understanding of every complex sociocultural issue is considered -phobic, disingenuous, and baiting. People with legitimate questions or limited insight can be demonized and piled on very quickly. This place looks for drama. Outside of the various specific OTs, ERA does not represent a safe space nor an open discussion forum. The first few weeks on this site were really great because the hivemind hadn't been established yet. Discussion was typically in good-faith, but of course that was never going to stick.

Click to shrink...

This is pretty much how I feel.

I don't play hugely popular games, so the OTs aren't very large and mainly just stick to the game and there is no drama.

Offtopic is a minefield. I don't post in any offtopic OTs, there is too big of risk that someone will get mad at something

 

[Deleted member 42055]

Yup 100 agree with Apollo and I think after the Trans thread people will be able to finally " push back" (within reason) more without risks of bans. The patience some LGBT members have been able to maintain with some of the nonsense here is truly admirable.So many threads just had people coming in wanting them to answer
Questions about their existence , why they need certain rights.. every new Trans thread felt for a while like people coming to gawk and prod at the inhabitants of a new Zoo exhibit . Or when cis, straight members want to barge into threads with comments like "Wait you're pan and gay ??? How ???"

The LGBT community doesn't owe you one second of their time explaining their lives. Some people here are more patient than I am with this, bless them

 

[Carnby]

Does anyone else say "oh boy, more snark" when you get a notification for being quoted?

 

[mbpm]

All this may be true, but what can we do about it?

Nowadays if I find I have any sort of heated opinion on something its usually best to not post here. Even when people agree it can feel draining

 

[subpar spatula]

Does anyone else say "oh boy, more snark" when you get a notification for being quoted?

Click to shrink...

i love when i get notifications. why y'all so afraid?

 

[Raccoon]

Does anyone else say "oh boy, more snark" when you get a notification for being quoted?

Click to shrink...

I usually say out loud "they're saying I'm a fucking idiot, let's see why I'm wrong and stupid." fortunately I'm often pleasantly surprised and relieved

 

[Chrome Hyena]

Does anyone else say "oh boy, more snark" when you get a notification for being quoted?

Click to shrink...

I love getting notifications. I love seeing what people think of what I say.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Yup 100 agree with Apollo and I think after the Trans thread people will be able to finally " push back" (within reason) more without risks of bans. The patience some LGBT members have been able to maintain with some of the nonsense here is truly admirable.So many threads just had people coming in wanting them to answer
Questions about their existence , why they need certain rights.. every new Trans thread felt for a while like people coming to gawk and prod at the inhabitants of a new Zoo exhibit . Or when cis, straight members want to barge into threads with comments like "Wait you're pan and gay ??? How ???"

The LGBT community doesn't owe you one second of their time explaining their lives. Some people here are more patient than I am with this, bless them

Click to shrink...

A lot of people don't realize they're, proclaimed, question of curiosity can come off as JAQing off (love this term btw after seeing it in the other threads).

I think you can ask questions out of sincerity but you gotta offer more than what you described above as examples of bad faith questions

 

[HammerFace]

A lot of people don't realize they're, proclaimed, question of curiosity can come off as JAQing off (love this term btw after seeing it in the other threads).

I think you can ask questions out of sincerity but you gotta offer more than what you described above as examples of bad faith questions

Click to shrink...

The expectation really should be that you come in with a modicum of knowledge of the topic at hand. Like do a cursory google search and learn a little, I'm sure once you've done that much you can be capable of asking a decent question that isn't JAQing off.

But then you have the two people below who would rather play victim to the "hivemind".

It's because a lot of people on this forum have this virtual holier-than-thou mindset where anything beyond perfect understanding of every complex sociocultural issue is considered -phobic, disingenuous, and baiting. People with legitimate questions or limited insight can be demonized and piled on very quickly. This place looks for drama. Outside of the various specific OTs, ERA does not represent a safe space nor an open discussion forum. The first few weeks on this site were really great because the hivemind hadn't been established yet. Discussion was typically in good-faith, but of course that was never going to stick.

Click to shrink...

This is pretty much how I feel.

I don't play hugely popular games, so the OTs aren't very large and mainly just stick to the game and there is no drama.

Offtopic is a minefield. I don't post in any offtopic OTs, there is too big of risk that someone will get mad at something

Click to shrink...

One of which came into the LGBTQ+ moderation issues thread to hijack it to complain about the perceived slights against them.

This is my biggest issue with this place. You can't discuss anything unless you agree with the majority.

Click to shrink...

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

One of which came into the LGBTQ+ moderation issues thread to hijack it to complain about the perceived slights against them.

Click to shrink...

This is what I'm talking about. I didn't come into the thread to start anything, I just replied to a person in the thread, agreeing with them. please, stop jumping to conclusions. I will even quote what I said later in that thread.

You need to stop assuming everyone that says that they can't discuss stuff here on ResetEra is a bigot. Now obviously this isn't the right thread to bring this topic up and i apologize for that. I was just originally replying to another post in this thread. I wasn't trying to derail the thread. People asked for some examples and when I went looking, someone replied "fuck off" and I felt what was the point of continuing.

Just read what you just wrote, " there are even a few out and out centrists." There are more than a few of everyone here, they just don't feel comfortable sharing their opinions. When I say opinions, I'm not talking about bigoted views or hatred, I'm just talking opinions on a topic.

People get extremely angry on this site if you don't agree with whatever litmus test they have on the subject. I have been called a monster for suggesting a pet owner put their dog to sleep after the pet owner dropped it on it's head and caused the dog brain damage and to be in a coma.

Again, I'm not trying to derail the thread, but someone replied again to my post and called it nonsense. I don't believe it to be nonsense.

Click to shrink...

No one should be told to "fuck off" in this forum. How is that acceptable?

I apologized for derailing the thread, I obviously should have created a thread like the one we are in now to voice my displeasure.

 

[Hasseigaku]

One of which came into the LGBTQ+ moderation issues thread to hijack it to complain about the perceived slights against them.

Click to shrink...

It feels like telling when people can't name the thing they think they're being persecuted for.

If you don't give specifics don't fault people for concluding that you hold some real shit beliefs.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

It feels like telling when people can't name the thing they think they're being persecuted for.

If you don't give specifics don't fault people for concluding that you hold some real shit beliefs.

Click to shrink...

Have you read this thread?

 

[Deleted member 42055]

I will 100% not immediately seek to vilify someone in a LGBT thread. I promise that.

What I will say is it is very very noticeable that many people never come into those threads to defend us , rather they need to come into those threads to finger wag and ensure an environment of " being able to ask questions" is being followed. Priorities people.

 

[Deleted member 2761]

Shamelessly stolen from women in STEM twitter, but the themes are recurring here too. Check out an article about the reply guy.

 

[Indy in the Fridge]

The expectation really should be that you come in with a modicum of knowledge of the topic at hand. Like do a cursory google search and learn a little, I'm sure once you've done that much you can be capable of asking a decent question that isn't JAQing off.

But then you have the two people below who would rather play victim to the "hivemind".





One of which came into the LGBTQ+ moderation issues thread to hijack it to complain about the perceived slights against them.

Click to shrink...

I'm not playing victim to anything and I'd appreciate if you wouldn't insinuate as such. I'm offering an opinion about the status of ERA. Your assumptions is a means to just rile people up. Shit isn't worth it.

 

[HammerFace]

This is what I'm talking about. I didn't come into the thread to start anything, I just replied to a person in the thread, agreeing with them. please, stop jumping to conclusions. I will even quote what I said later in that thread.



No one should be told to "fuck off" in this forum. How is that acceptable?

I apologized for derailing the thread, I obviously should have created a thread like the one we are in now to voice my displeasure.

Click to shrink...

No one should have to answer questions about their existence or have to continually explain the basics of issues that impact them or their communities. How is that acceptable?

This seems like a super snarky reply so far, but its the truth. People are tired of having to do that, and the big issue is that the reporting system has continually failed them when they need to actually remove trolls, bigots, JAQ offs (love this term), etc. These frustrations have lead to outbursts that in turn result in far harsher punishments for the aggrieved communities. This was one of several issues mentioned this past week and part of why changes in moderation/reporting need to be made. It is also why it is acceptable to be told to "fuck off". Because when you come in swinging about needing to pass a litmus test to even participate or that the hive mind is going to get you in a topic not about that at all, its aggravating because its not wanted in anyway.

What is most likely wanted and should be expected is that if you have a legitimate question do some research on it beforehand so that either a) you get your answer and you can engage more meaningfully than asking questions, b) you have more background knowledge to develop a more poignant question, and probably some other things but I'm sure with a and b you could get by fine. Its as simple as that.

The post you quoted in this thread took the OPs initial issue and hijacked it into venting about an imaginary "hivemind". By quoting and agreeing with that you're pushing the hijacking further and pushing the same narrative much like you did in the other thread. Its a pattern that you and others have shown that I'd like to see stop, so thats why I called you out on it and also your post was like right above mine. I appreciate the fact that you apologized, not everyone would, but thats as much as I can say since i'm not a part of that community.

And you're right that if you want to discuss the issues getting to you, then you should probably start a thread instead of piggybacking on someone else's.


To anyone from the LGBTQ+ community or other ones I may have indirectly spoken for in this post, I am sorry if this comes off as me passing myself as some authority on the matter or even someone qualified to speak for you. I'm just tired of seeing this stuff.

 

[echoshifting]

The OP makes some good points, and I think there is more discussion to be had on the general discourse on this board. It's unfortunate that the thread has been hijacked by the crowd that will jump at the slightest opportunity to complain about how hard it is to post in threads on social issues without being accused of bigotry, or of being a bigot (there is an important distinction between the two, and I think it is notable that this crowd frequently references the latter when I usually see the former occur). This doesn't seem to me to be what OP is talking about at all, but I feel compelled to respond to it.

If you get banned or warned or repeatedly called out in these threads, maybe you should spend more time reading them and less time posting in them. Believe me when I say that it is easier to learn about these issues when you open yourself to all possible aspects of them rather than focusing on whatever question or comment you originally had in mind. If you are not a member of the affected groups, please acknowledge the limited importance of your own voice in these discussions. If it is clear your questions or comments are not welcome by people who are more directly impacted by these topics, keep them to yourself. If you receive what you believe to be a disproportionate response to a post you genuinely thought was innocent or innocuous, consider that it was, in fact, more harmful than it appeared. Resist the urge to get defensive and refrain from doubling down on your original comment or posting about how offended you were by the responses, thereby derailing the thread and further deteriorating the quality of the discussion for your own benefit. If you felt someone crossed the line, report the post and move on with your life. If nothing comes of that report, guess what, you were wrong - no lines were crossed, your post probably was just that bad.

(And I also want to point out that it has been my experience that people are usually not outright accused of -phobia, racism or sexism until after the double down)

Your right to participate in these threads is not sacrosanct. Yes, it is a discussion board. But when your posts hurt people, they aren't worth discussing. Like they're literally just not worth their impact. You reaching a greater understanding of these issues does literally nothing for the marginalized people sitting at the other end of the discussion.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Yuuup. Like, if I get harsh with someone on Era in a trans thread, it's usually because it honestly feels as if I can't afford not to. If we let an instance of transphobia slide, we're potentially sending the message that it's okay, and I know from experience that there are many on this site who are waiting for precisely that message.

Click to shrink...

Same reason I find myself always responding to posts propagating male rape myths. If someone says something ignorant that directly conflicts with your lived experience then it's understandable that you want to respond and that the response may even be harsh.

Honestly, sometimes that need to respond or give your perspective doesn't always go well, especially if you make assumptions about whoever you are responding to that are unfair or inaccurate. Sometimes that impulse can be wrong and can lead to you making mistakes (it certainly has for me), but it exists because people are so used to having their experiences or identities belittled, downplayed, or ignored. And that hurts.

 

[davepoobond]

People need to lighten up in general. Can't even think about attempting a funny joke without thinking how banworthy it is.

 

[LQX]

A lot of great posts in this thread. I too often wonder if we take into consideration the mental state of others when banning or requesting banning of other members.

The OP makes some good points, and I think there is more discussion to be had on the general discourse on this board. It's unfortunate that the thread has been hijacked by the crowd that will jump at the slightest opportunity to complain about how hard it is to post in threads on social issues without being accused of bigotry, or of being a bigot (there is an important distinction between the two, and I think it is notable that this crowd frequently references the latter when I usually see the former occur). This doesn't seem to me to be what OP is talking about at all, but I feel compelled to respond to it.

If you get banned or warned or repeatedly called out in these threads, maybe you should spend more time reading them and less time posting in them. Believe me when I say that it is easier to learn about these issues when you open yourself to all possible aspects of them rather than focusing on whatever question or comment you originally had in mind. If you are not a member of the affected groups, please acknowledge the limited importance of your own voice in these discussions. If it is clear your questions or comments are not welcome by people who are more directly impacted by these topics, keep them to yourself. If you receive what you believe to be a disproportionate response to a post you genuinely thought was innocent or innocuous, consider that it was, in fact, more harmful than it appeared. Resist the urge to get defensive and refrain from doubling down on your original comment or posting about how offended you were by the responses, thereby derailing the thread and further deteriorating the quality of the discussion for your own benefit. If you felt someone crossed the line, report the post and move on with your life. If nothing comes of that report, guess what, you were wrong - no lines were crossed, your post probably was just that bad.

(And I also want to point out that it has been my experience that people are usually not outright accused of -phobia, racism or sexism until after the double down)

Your right to participate in these threads is not sacrosanct. Yes, it is a discussion board. But when your posts hurt people, they aren't worth discussing. Like they're literally just not worth their impact. You reaching a greater understanding of these issues does literally nothing for the marginalized people sitting at the other end of the discussion.

Click to shrink...

You know I agree with this and maybe a ban I had a awhile back is a perfect example of this where looking back I can see how some took what I said the wrong way though in my thoughts to keystrokes I was trying to convey something different. That said, I was outright accused of racism. It's still listed in my banning and honestly bothers me to this day as I have asked for clarification and was met with an extended ban to shut down further communication. How can I learn or correct something I have no idea of? It fucking bugs me all these months later as I have never been racist towards anyone, anywhere on the internet.

 

[Hasseigaku]

People need to lighten up in general. Can't even think about attempting a funny joke without thinking how banworthy it is.

Click to shrink...

Sounds like a failure of imagination on your part then. Despite the laments of old rich comedians you don't have to be mean or shitty to be funny.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

It's quite telling that some people in this thread spend so much time complaining about not being able to speak their mind on this or that instead of contributing to an environment that allows persecuted groups to do exactly that.

People need to lighten up in general. Can't even think about attempting a funny joke without thinking how banworthy it is.

Click to shrink...

Your post proves otherwise.

 

[AZ Greg]

It's quite telling that some people in this thread spend so much time complaining about not being able to speak their mind on this or that instead of contributing to an environment that allows persecuted groups to do exactly that.

Click to shrink...

Only one group in this thread is getting the suggestion to post less. Hint: It isn't the persecuted group

 

[kmfdmpig]

Lots of posts in here seem to be implying that making Era more protective of minority groups and limiting the tendency for posters to jump to negative conclusions about other posters are in opposition. I don't think that has to be the case.

 

[Pwnz]

Lots of posts in here seem to be implying that making Era more protective of minority groups and limiting the tendency for posters to jump to negative conclusions about other posters are in opposition. I don't think that has to be the case.

Click to shrink...

I agree, they are not inextricable.

 

[Treestump]

First of all, I'm sorry to hear about that, OP.

I personally tend to stay out of religious threads relating to God for the most part (with an exception or two) because of how it can be. Just look at the latest thread: https://www.resetera.com/threads/hy...e-that-god-doesnt-exist.154431/#post-26688194

where a user got a warning for saying this:

Lol you athiests crack me up. Try again.

Click to shrink...

As Antagonizing other members in a thread where people call those who believe "fucking morons" "in a cult" and other things that continuously happen in threads about Catholics/Christians/anyone who believes in a God whereas other threads relating to other religions usually are much more respectful. I don't know why that can fly in those threads where I doubt in would in others.

I know this forum is mostly anti-religion and atheist in general but I wish it were more respectful to those who are religious and didn't generalize all of us as idiots. I've seen plenty of users be kinder and say the same so I'm not saying it's a big problem unlike what's been talked about but it still irks me at times.

 

[AnansiThePersona]

First of all, I'm sorry to hear about that, OP.

I personally tend to stay out of religious threads relating to God for the most part (with an exception or two) because of how it can be. Just look at the latest thread: https://www.resetera.com/threads/hy...e-that-god-doesnt-exist.154431/#post-26688194

where a user got a warning for saying this:

As Antagonizing other members in a thread where people call those who believe "fucking morons" "in a cult" and other things that continuously happen in threads about Catholics/Christians/anyone who believes in a God whereas other threads relating to other religions usually are much more respectful. I don't know why that can fly in those threads where I doubt in would in others.

I know this forum is mostly anti-religion and atheist in general but I wish it were more respectful to those who are religious and didn't generalize all of us as idiots. I've seen plenty of users be kinder and say the same so I'm not saying it's a big problem unlike what's been talked about but it still irks me at times.

Click to shrink...

Yeah that recent God thread was really mean towards religious people. You don't have to believe in it, but calling people who do "idiots who believe in fairy tales" is fucked up.

 

[Pwnz]

There is a double standard there, and there shouldn't be.

I admit that I will mock the Catholic church fervently whenever there's a topic about the church criticizing other's morals, given their extensive history of child abuse, but I don't think I'd ever mock individuals. But maybe I have, something for me to be aware of.

 

[msdstc]

I think there's a way to do it if you're framing it as the ills of the media, that's a fair point. It's just generally not a great look if people are dunking on Trump and someone wants to get in between and try to shut that down, because he's a piece of shit and his feelings shouldn't be spared, nor should the feeling of people in opposition to him be suppressed.

Click to shrink...

I don't give a shit about his feelings. I also think articles comparing his hand size to Tom cruises of all people is hilariously stupid.

 

[Lentic]

Yeah, politics is everywhere around us whether we want to believe it or not. If you live your life not having to think about it it's because you come from a place of privilege where you don't have to.

Click to shrink...

I have to somewhat disagree with this. I'm someone who is deeply affected by political and social issues, but even I go out of my way to avoid politics/news sometimes for the sake of my own mental health. There's only so much I can handle on a day to day basis. Too many times I've opened up this forum, read an absolutely terrible news story and fucked my day up completely.

Mental health is another aspect to think about. A lot of people here suffer from anxiety and depression. Submerging yourself in a completely negative news bubble just isn't healthy.

First of all, I'm sorry to hear about that, OP.

I personally tend to stay out of religious threads relating to God for the most part (with an exception or two) because of how it can be. Just look at the latest thread: https://www.resetera.com/threads/hy...e-that-god-doesnt-exist.154431/#post-26688194

where a user got a warning for saying this:

As Antagonizing other members in a thread where people call those who believe "fucking morons" "in a cult" and other things that continuously happen in threads about Catholics/Christians/anyone who believes in a God whereas other threads relating to other religions usually are much more respectful. I don't know why that can fly in those threads where I doubt in would in others.

I know this forum is mostly anti-religion and atheist in general but I wish it were more respectful to those who are religious and didn't generalize all of us as idiots. I've seen plenty of users be kinder and say the same so I'm not saying it's a big problem unlike what's been talked about but it still irks me at times.

Click to shrink...

Fully agree. I'm not religious, but for a long time I've thought this forum needs better rules about how to handle religious discussion. We have to accept that religion can be a nuanced and deep topic on its own, and to be respectful of boundaries. I've seen some downright hateful stuff targetted towards religious folks almost bordering on China "un-brainwashing religion" territory.

 

[Lunchbox]

You have more confidence than me, I don't even meet people in that way I don't see you as socially deficient.

 

[Kyuuji]

But this is a discussion board! It isn't tumblr or LiveJournal. The mission statement even calls out discussing various topics as being the point of the place, not simply listening to someone who wants support via absolute understanding and zero criticism of their situation. That is what a therapist is for.

I feel for the staff right now as they're at a crossroads where they simply can't win. They either continue to support discussion and then lose a lot of certain groups who want social interaction and a safe space all at the same time, again, the role of a therapist. Or they overly protect these groups, stifle discussion, and further perpetuate a groupthink environment which is already a bit of an issue.

Click to shrink...

Honestly it seems like you're more concerned with ensuring a safe space for yourself, guaranteeing you the ability to post as you like without fear of reprisal for some of your blunt/unsympathetic views. Like you have some compulsive need to tell people how it is or "tough love" that musn't be diminished. Don't project the need for a safe space onto others when you're the one concerned about being unable to discuss future topics without being moderated.

 

[Ryu]

Some people just forget that there's another human on the other side, it's so tiring reading/experiencing constantly toxic or childish people. So much petty and backhanded comments, I will never understand it.

Click to shrink...

This 100%. I've seen so many threads with insults, but people don't get it that no matter the topic, it's not quite necessary to insult someone. I know it has gotten to be the basic routine. Swearing and insulting is mainstream, it's easy, but it actually wears down on everyone. You can strengthen your opinion in other ways. We can be better than this, or at least I thought so.