When people are prosperous they will be tolerant and kind to each other.
I was a loser virgin 4chan browser for much of my teens. I can't say for sure what got me out of it but i kind of just "grew out of it." I got a normal job, normal friends, and a normal life.
I honestly think for a lot of these guys 99% of what they think is just a fabrication and if they just stepped outside for awhile, get offline, and saw for themselves that the real world very different from the one in their heads.
Let's be honest, if you're a young straight white male in 2018 USA then you've got the golden ticket of life circumstances. If these young men could realize just how good they have it they probably wouldn't throw it all away over dumb "chad" and "cuck" memes and take other lives with them when they do.
Here's the thing that bothers me the most: women have been bullied as kids, had shitty home lives or can be very socially awkward. They have economic stress too. And still, 90% of violent crime worldwide (so not just North America and Caucasians) is committed by men. This problem is, fundamentally, way deeper than just internet radicalization. Obviously not all men are violent criminals, but almost all violent criminals are men. Worth thinking about.
Haven't a few would be shooters been caught because they were stupid enough to post what they were planning on 4chan?
What scares me is what will happen in China and India with 70 million more men than women.
That's gonna be a lot of lonely angry men.
It's sad too.
It actually sounds pretty similar to how ISIS recruits young men with little opportunity for a "normal" life. Take people with little to no chance at romantic or financial success and twist them into murdering psychopaths.
It is. They actually go over it in the OP. Basically all these men grow up thinking they're owed by society. That women are working against them. That others (be it of a different race/religion/nationality) are taking away their chance at success. That society is making fun of them for not reaching a certain bar of masculinity.
Islamic extremism. Trumpism. Gamergate. They all come from the same place.
Instant reward is at an all time high in society. Drugs, cheap junk food, the Internet (social media), entertainment (binging Netflix), pron, video games etc. And all that just becomes addiction. Potentially. There is never a moment to be bored. Constant stimulation at a moments notice.
But 1 on 1 real life human interaction is plummeting. We are connected. ..but alone.
I want to know where the dads are. I can't believe some of the men these fathers are raising
If it is participation rewards doing it, why is it primarily men that get affected, but not women? You'd expect this to hit both genders equally.
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be" - Kurt Vonnegut
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be" - Kurt Vonnegut
---
^^^^No matter the circumstances, roleplaying as trolls and extremists invariably leads to becoming trolls and extremists.
Bit of an overstatement, don't you think? An early(ish) example of how certain right and far-right beliefs can emerge in predominantly online communities, sure. But it's closer to the canary than it is to the actual collapse.It's a shame that contemporary political science doesn't recognize the effects of GG and it goes unstudied by those is positions of academic power. It could be decades before it is properly recognized as the root cause of American instability.
This might not be the most popular opinion in here but testosterone is a thing so there is some difference between men and women which isn't just genitals. Men are more aggressive than women (in general) so obviously this shows up in crime stats.Here's the thing that bothers me the most: women have been bullied as kids, had shitty home lives or can be very socially awkward. They have economic stress too. And still, 90% of violent crime worldwide (so not just North America and caucasians) is committed by men. This problem is, fundamentally, way deeper than just internet radicalization. Obviously not all men are violent criminals, but almost all violent criminals are men. Worth thinking about.
You are correct. A significant part of this is sexual frustration, low self worth, jealousy, inferiority complex, paranoia and expectations they cannot meet. My impression of these guys is that lack of pussy drove them mad, and that expectation of being unable to to get a woman is equivalent to being worthless. It sort of explains why alt-right has a lot to do with PUA. PUA has the answer to these peoples pain. Women are dogs who just like Alpha chads.
And women who say they don't are wrong. It's all a fabrication.
So these communities around them tell them a reason for their lack of success, and they can use that as an excuse to not group up, not self reflect and not become a better person, and instead take it out on everyone. POC, Women, banks, whatever. Everything else but themselves are to blame. It's not them, it's all women who are lying sluts. They are the heroes because each and everyone live their life like they are the star. And they are the oppressed one. They hate themselves, and that is what makes them dangerous.
And this is not a white-guy cultural thing either. One of the key motivators of how fundamentalist extremists recruit suicide bombers are by exploiting the sexual frustration of young men who become so irrational that they are much more likely to believe they'll go to heaven with 72 virgins after they've killed a bunch of innocent people.
Exploiting that sort of fear goes back a long way. It doesn't even have to manifest directly that way to be massively prudent.
There are some key factors why men commit more violent crime. One of the key characteristics of people who commit assault is that men are more easily able to size up another man and asses if he can beat him. That seems to be more difficult for women, and as a result there is a higher risk factor. People who commit assault are cowards. They never pick a fair fight, which is what makes them such a joke. They are essentially bullying taking to extreme physical levels of harm.
We do see in some countries with high levels of equality that crime for men goes down and as a result women goes up by comparison. In some places in Europe I believe it's about 1/5 criminals are female.
Which is increased from that it used to be 1 in 10.
But many millennial men are more docile than previous generations- Fed up obese, and high on video games, they drink less, have less sex, do less drugs and do less partying and get into less fights than previous generations.
They are less extreme, and many of them have low incomes due to increased inequality. So there is less opportunity too. But lots more distractions and entertainment. And lots of porn of every kind to keep the sexual frustration in check. To a point.
Still there is a noticeable difference. Women are much more likely to commit crimes like theft, corporate fraud, slander and lying for defamation than violent crime. Then there is the classic testosterone factor among men.
I've always said that people can't sleep on young men who become young angry men. They are the most dangerous of all of society. What started out as a cocktail of immaturity, lack of self reflection, experience and being hurt, develops them as vulnerabel and self hating, to becoming actual evil people. I don't believe there are any neo-nazis who are happy. They are all emotionally damaged. That's the recruitment factor.
Many many people live unhappy lives. Many many people do not hurt others, but some do, and this is the result. This is the fallout rate of isolated young men who couldn't find their spot in the herd. No females want to mate with their sorry asses and now they are going around the savanna killing straglers, shitting in the water supply and doing other heinous shit.
pussy make men go insane is not a figure of speech. It's a reality. Some just can't handle it. Expectations of being alpha draws them into PUA cults and alt-right groups. And then you're off the races. thousands of people who agree with everything you say. Elliott Rogers was practically worshiped as a hero on r/incel. These people have an emotional outlet of their own self hatred and they wallow in their own pain, and they begin to take it out on others. Lies they tell themselves to get out of bed. It's everyone elses fault they can't get laid.
In my country boys and young men becoming more and more marginalized is a hot political topic right now.
God, I quote this so often, but...
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be" - Kurt Vonnegut
No matter the circumstances, roleplaying as trolls and extremists invariably leads to becoming trolls and extremists.
This statement is highly suspect. If your proof is the book Mother Night then you are already wrong.
Media is a more likely culprit.
Take incels in particular.
Look at media, then. It is filled with stories of loser guys that do nothing, yet get sexy women throwing themselves at the loser guys, without said guy doing a thing. It is the default for stories, especially in anime. *THIS* is what many young men these days expect from life. There clearly are many women around, so where are *their* women? Are they not as much an everyman as the parade of guys in their favorite anime/game that always get their waifu? Where is their sexsla.... girlfriend?
But real women don't like that role. Real women take effort, and they can say no. You cannot reaload this, you can't just move forward four pages until the next waifu stumbles her breasts into the hero's face, there's just no free girlfriends.
But that is what life should be like. Life OWES them to give that to them. They've been conditioned since childhood to expect the girlfriend as the reward for the everyman. And if they are owed that, but don't get it, what can follow but resentment?
"Participation rewards" are a talking point, but you find incels and that kind of guy in countries that don't have these participation rewards.
More importantly: Women get them too.
Women are not inherently smarter than men, women are people, just like men, on average no better or smarter. If participation rewards are causing all of this, why don't we see a lot of radicalization for women? I'd say it is way more likely that the cause is something gendered: And if so, something that would directly feed the sense of entitlement these people are feeling.
Peter Griffin gets Lois. Homer gets Marge. Both thin, both pretty. Where are the overweight women in media? Two thirds of american adult women are overweight or obese today. Two thirds! That's a big number. How many are overweight in tv shows or news programs? I guarantee you it's not two thirds.
Do you think those incels would lower their standards to more realistic levels? Fuck no. Like most men, they want a "Stacy". A woman that is thin and pretty-faced. This leave most men competing over 30% of women, while mostly ignoring the rest (ask any overweight woman who got fit and they will tell you it's like they were invisible until they did. In our parents generation, this figure was closer to 70%.
So these incels who are already at a huge disadvantage because their have shitty personalities now have to compete way harder than their parents did. Of course the failure rate is high. Of course they are bitter. Most men lower their expectations gradually and do end up in relationships. The difference is those normal men are aware that they are not God's gift to women and don't externalize their bitterness.
Most women and LGBT people wish to be only that "marginalized". The problem is not that men are marginalized, but that this group lacks even the most basic sense of empathy, and feel that any struggle they face is automatically the worst thing that has happened to anyone, and that everyone else is to blame for it.
If a woman doesn't find a boyfriend, it's her fault. If one of these men doesn't find a girlfriend, it's everyone else's fault.
Chris Farley was by all accounts a very sweet person. So how did he not end up becoming a destructive incel?
typing with a broken arm. sorry all.
No, they will.Maybe they won't go on a killing spree though? I think that was his point. They will still be shitty people.
Chris Farley was by all accounts a very sweet person. So how did he not end up becoming a destructive incel?
Only in the US and Europe. In South Korea they are Asian, in South Africa you have Black African young men radicalizing, in India they are Indian Hindu extremists, etc. It isn't just a "Western" problem and it is arrogant of western society to think so. Nazism and fascism is rearing it's ugly head all over the world, politicians cater to it to gain power and win elections - mostly conservative and right wing parties -, only to find out they have been nurturing a beast they can no longer control when actual fascists chickens come home to roost. As a politician you can then do two things, go with it (like the GOP, Victor Orban, Narendra Modi, etc) or admit you've done a terrible thing and own up to it (sadly very few choose to do that, can't think of any on the top of my head :(, please ERA help me out here and bring some positivity to my desolate life :( ).As long as we add the caveat "white men", because it is largely them this pertains to
Point is not all marginalized are prone to fascism. it's in response to the all to frequent notion that it's the logical trajectory. why are some prone to it while others are immune? many are outcasts, but don't go down the rabbit hole. i guess for me, i get frustrated why people go this route and blame it on circumstance, because they do that when they can no longer blame anyone but themselves. it verges dangerously to coddling them. incels make as much a choice as outcasts who don't become shit people. i wish people would stop unwittingly coddling them.You mean because he was overweight? Just asking what Chris Farley has to do with this.
There is no empathy for men in all of history. Men are expandable, replacable.
They isolate. No one cares. Until they become violent. That's the cycle.
The outright dismission of some of the posters on this forum speak to this complete lack of empaty.
That's one factor.
Then there is the crisis of meaninglesness to whom people like Jordan Peterson rightfully tap into. A rapidly changing world that is losing traditional roles and tasks that have come to define men for generations. What does it mean to be a man in 2018? How do we deal with infinite distractions? How do we deal with more possibillities and choices than we ever had?
What can guide us towards a better, healthy and reinvigorated masculinity?
These are the questions we need to answer, I think.
There is no empathy for men in all of history. Men are expandable, replacable.
They isolate. No one cares. Until they become violent. That's the cycle.
The outright dismission of some of the posters on this forum speak to this complete lack of empaty.
That's one factor.
Then there is the crisis of meaninglesness to whom people like Jordan Peterson rightfully tap into. A rapidly changing world that is losing traditional roles and tasks that have come to define men for generations. What does it mean to be a man in 2018? How do we deal with infinite distractions? How do we deal with more possibillities and choices than we ever had?
What can guide us towards a better, healthy and reinvigorated masculinity?
These are the questions we need to answer, I think.
Wow just read up on what a incel is.
I don't know many extreme incels but I know people who don't know how they are in the ugly-hot scale they just assume they will get a slim girl with a pretty face even if they are not all that themselves. It's all about keeping your expectations in check depending on your own looks. I know plenty of men who are getting old and lonely as they can't find a woman, but if they simply downgraded their expectations they would have easily had someone a long time ago.
They don't need any empathy if they're murdering people, and masculinity is a poison that should be eliminated.There is no empathy for men in all of history. Men are expandable, replacable.
What can guide us towards a better, healthy and reinvigorated masculinity?
These are the questions we need to answer, I think.
I dont think we need to give more empathy to men.
Men need to be taught how to be more empathetic to others. They will be less selfish and see how their emotions and actions effect others instead of how everyone can be used to better themselves.
Not as much as running over a crowd of people just because women find you repulsive.
i dont understand how this is gross. Giving men more empathy reduces how toxic masculinity is and lets men help each other and lift them up as well as women.
Not as much as running over a crowd of people just because women find you repulsive.
No it's not, its a reasonable approach.
i dont understand how this is gross. Giving men more empathy reduces how toxic masculinity is and lets men help each other and lift them up as well as women.
You might already be lacking in empathy if you believe gaining more is gross.