He means that he's not actually asking for equal sexualised imagery of men because he wants it, but to point out that they wouldn't use that sort of imagery with men in the first place, so they shouldn't use it with women.
Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)
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He means that he's not actually asking for equal sexualised imagery of men because he wants it, but to point out that they wouldn't use that sort of imagery with men in the first place, so they shouldn't use it with women.
Yeah, I saw a showcase of the shop, and it was quite a nice surprise seeing her actually cover herself more as she is working on something. Definitely like that kind of detail.Iffy origins and outfit aside, the character is pretty good by DMC standards. Like there's some genuine moments where she can make you laugh. And again, the effort to put this in and make sure she wasn't a mechanic in name only like Cindy:
She's mostly crafting Nero arms prothestics so she has a table workshop in her Van and you see that the table she sit at has a very strong and thick leather cloth hanging from it to cover her legs while she's welding or doing anything involving sparks ...
So her staying in shorts is a bit of a stretch but you can't fault them really her workshop table make up makes room for it ...
Sure, but you're describing an objective, not a means. How do we get devs to realize they need to listen to women and stop sexualizing them? How do we get them to realize sexualization is a problem at all? Like TheSyldat says, that just isn't happening now, and I see no reason to think it's going to magically and spontaneously change. Whereas if they played a game with a sexualized male, one would hope anyone but the least self-aware would ponder "if this is making me unconfortable, perhaps (SHOCK!) women aren't confortable playing as chainmail bikini titninjas?".
The difference between Bayonetta and DMC in terms of how fanservice is treated, how women are portrayed, and the framing in general is a big one. Bayonetta does the fanservice stuff in a way more campy way where Bayonetta generally is the one in power. There is some shitty stuff in those games, but that's in a different area. Also Bayonetta is decidedly more of a queer icon, but that's a whole other essay.
I don't think the PS4 lens flare should've happened, but that's more a matter of Sony's double standards than anything else, considering David Cage's lecherous shower scenes are allowed uncut (that creep should've been blacklisted from the industry after how he handled that Ellen Page shower scene) and given Sony publishing.
I don't think the PS4 lens flare should've happened, but that's more a matter of Sony's double standards than anything else, considering David Cage's lecherous shower scenes are allowed uncut (that creep should've been blacklisted from the industry after how he handled that Ellen Page shower scene) and given Sony publishing.
This dovetails into what I told someone a couple weeks ago when they asked what can they do to help as a male; the most obvious answer is "understand, and then signal boost what women say, because unfortunately men have a far easier time ignoring women than other men".
And even before that like I said having the convo with a bi dude telling them that the difference in treatment is bitch of a constant nagging hurt , and a constant backstabbing of YOUR sexuality as a bi dude finally sparks up the lightbuld in their fucking brains man ...
It's depressing to see that it's always the bi dude in the team that finally REACHES them ...
I'm fed up with being the key that finally unlock the padlock of their fucking reasoning ...
It hurts and it's tiresome to HAVE to be the crowbar that gets the ladies in their brains to finally have the conversation ...
Nah, don't think so. They just thought it to be more convenient, I'd say. Acutally I think, they wouldn't have give a fuck about letting him keep his clothes...
That I agree on. It came of kinda lame. Wait a sec - he just lied there the whole time? Oh and nice thing, Trish threw him Sparda, so the sword is at the same spot hiding his presence. Now he was save and we have the sword we need. Win win. Lets call it a day.
They even put it in the game, V commenting on how much luck one can have... How Dante even lies there, what a wonderful perfect posture. Made me laugh.
If he would have been inside a demon, his month of coma not killing him would have been a little more convincing. Even as that strong half demon he is - no food and water and everything else for a whole month? With Trish and Lady you can at least say those demons kept them alive magically.
But on the other hand - who in media has to eat, pee or something similar anyway? :o
They even put it in the game, V commenting on how much luck one can have... How Dante even lies there, what a wonderful perfect posture. Made me laugh.
If he would have been inside a demon, his month of coma not killing him would have been a little more convincing. Even as that strong half demon he is - no food and water and everything else for a whole month? With Trish and Lady you can at least say those demons kept them alive magically.
But on the other hand - who in media has to eat, pee or something similar anyway? :o
Again, you are assuming they care that women are being made uncomfortable. The majority of gamers don't. They still see gaming as their thing, designed for them. Again, they know women are being made uncomfortable, that's why you get so many posts about gamers turning the game off when their gf or wife comes in the door. They just don't care. I really don't see how putting a guy in a sexualised outfit is going to solve that, they are just going to protest the dude in the sexualised outfit. Like I said, the tool/metaphor might work with game devs to get them to see another's point of view. But there's nothing forcing a gamer having to buy a game that sexualises a dude or even respect women as being in the same space as them. The best bet is to design games for women as well, make efforts to have tools to combat toxicity in gaming and try to open the game market to as low a price barrier as possible - that will bring more women into the hobby and when straight white dudes aren't the majority any more, they are going to get pampered as much.
Edit: You guys keep talking about devs - this forum is mainly not devs. We are also trying to get gamers to accept less sexualisation of women. Constantly bringing up "equal sexualisation" confuses the point and as I said earlier let's guys ignore the problem and how alot of women actually feel. Alot of gamers and posters already know that that type of sexualisation is uncomfortabel for women. They don't care.
I thought that but he kept bringing up how sad he got that they weren't representing his full sexuality and I get that but it kinda confused the point on what he was actually aiming with on sexualisation.
I think said policy was put in after that game was released, and applied to cases that wouldn't count DMC5's nudity scenes which were more likely censored internally than by Sony due to only one scene not having it on other platforms.
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I agree. It's often a case of when the shoe is on the other foot with many people in regards to learning how to feel empathy. Someone who's anti-gay suddenly has a sudden change of heart once their kid comes out of the closet, or they suddenly realise how awful the behaviour of men can be once they have a daughter to protect.
There are some lame plot reasons, from what I gather - but then you could just as easily have shown these events from less pervy camera angles.
On that we all agree over here ...
What they should be upset about is Lady and Trish being funk ass naked for no fucking reason ...
And Nico ... my fucking god what a fucking waste ...
They make her change outfit when she works on creating on new arm and wear workshop appropiate top clothing (with the leather cloth of the table covering her legs )
Only to make her bend over to grab one when you're ressuplying your arms reserve ...
Like for real this is Capcom wanting to - to quote Jim Sterling- "eat their cake and fuck it too"
Seriously Capcom make up your fucking mind at some point . Nico is smartass badass engineer that crafts Nero's prostehtic arms and can hold her own with demon minions ( which makes the fact you can't play as her all the more of a bummer ) or is she just ass just cause ?
(I know I know she can be both ... but again I'm also real mad and my onions are massively cheesed because I dig her design and I would have loved to kick demons asses playing as her ... )
That's not what I'm saying. I have literally nothing against games with sexual content or even porn games. What I do have something against is any art/product assuming that in any given context that has literally nothing to do with sex (such as in DMC5) that I STILL want random tits and ass for no apparent reason.
I'm talking about shit like every "mature" game out there having a brothel because apparently that is the most important signifier for a realistic world. It's absurd.
Yeah been saying this all along. Get those entire scenes the fuck outta there. Utterly pointless.
They might as well still have been wearing their clothes and nothing would have changed story-wise. FUCKING NERO GETS ABSORBED INTO A DEMON IN DMC4 YET KEEPS HIS CLOTHES BECAUSE OF COURSE HE DOES AAAAAAAARGH
DANTE GETS EATEN BY A WHALE DEMON IN 3 FFS.
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Women don't need to be naked every time they get absorbed into some evil creature. Whichever horndog came up with that trope must feel oh so clever.
The way you worded it originally made it look like your point was "fapping to games is dumb I go to pornhub when I want to rub one out" which is another stupid argument that we hear from both dudes and gals ...
And boy do I hate that argument.
But on that we do agree gratuitous sexualisation "just because" is nasty and should just stop already ...
The guy in there claiming people would have discussions of censorship if male nudity was removed is especially hilarious considering male designs have been changed to show less skin and the censorship crowd didn't say boo.
Yeah my bad, I meant to imply that porn games etc fall under the same umbrella as "pornhub". I meant to call out mainstream Triple A titles that have no sexual themes and haven't earned any nudity to begin with thematically.
Yep yep, that one actually made me laugh. These people are willfully oblivious.
If you want to know where to point your finger , in order to blame the right thing ... I have only ten words for you "Current wave of massive succes of the vore hentai genre" .
Like for real I wouldn't be too surprised if somewhere down the line we learn that the reason why lady was funk ass naked in Artemis was simply because "hey we have to ride Vooooorrrre wave while it last "
*especially given that some doujin drawn by women illustrators who specialised in vore have drawn Dante old and teen in vore setups lately *
Again I wasn't talking about actually doing it but about me working in the industry and having had to be the crowbar that finally get the point across because their BS with female objectification is BOTH a backstab of women and a backstabbing of my sexuality and their stuff make me their colleague feel like shit too .
And that saddly sometimes yes the bisexual dude in the room is the only thing that finally pries their brain open to the FULL conversation about sex in games in general and women representation in games altogether ...
Okay that makes sense but I found your other posts kinda confusing, and I think that you're missing that this forum isn't game devs, so the same example doesn't work, as I've seen far too many guys use it as an excuse to not think about women sexualisation at all. Also, we do need to convince gamers over the issue too. I'm not totally convinced it will work on all game devs either as there's still alot of old thinking that women aren't the consumer base. But it's a chicken and egg situation, where if woman don't feel welcomed into the gaming space they aren't going to buy products, and if devs don't feel women are going to buy their game, they aren't going to design for them. I think it's going to be baby steps, if they won't be welcoming of women, they will at least not put stuff in games that are outright off putting to women.
Dangers vary depending on the type of welding you're doing, but considering that the UV-radiation created when arc-welding is so strong that even short exposure can create severe sunburn and long exposure can lead to skin cancer and so aggressive that it can penetrate lighter fabrics and bounce back from nearby surfaces, shorts are about the last thing I'd wear when welding, desk or not. And there is also the carbon burning in the steel that causes small explosions that flings out molten metal all over that travels so fast that even if it doesn't hit you straight on, it can ricochet from any nearby surface and hit you as extremely hot small droplets of metal. And then there's also metal shavings and dust so sharp that it can end up under your skin without you even noticing, and travel great distances under the skin before being expelled. The smock, mask and gloves seem okay though.
Yup that's the thing with Nico they didn't wanted to do the whole Cindy stuff because they knew they'd be yelled at , but they just couldn't bring themselves to let her be in a full covering jumpsuit during work ...
Hell they even make her change cloths ON SCREEN , why half assing it at that point ?
That's what so disturbing and bugging. Given that she already changes clothes JUST to work on the bench why not going all the way when it comes to sensical workshop clothing ?
Yes, I'm talking about devs. Devs are, more often than not, gamers themselves. I'm both, for example.
If we assume they "know, but don't care", that women are made unconfortable; and that even experiencing that disconfort themselves is not going to change their minds, then how in hell do we change the status quo? It's all cool and peachy to talk about "men should listen to women and give a fuck about how they feel", but how do you propose to change that? "Should" is a nice wish, not a battle plan.
If we assume men simply don't know any better and mostly don't ever stop to put themselves in the shoes of others less fortunate than themselves, which in this case would be women, then there is still some hope that making them aware of their point of view will change things. This is my own assessment of the situation, not only because it gives us something to work towards rather than give up and watch the world burn, but because I'm a man myself. Hanlon's razor and simple lack of ever having suffered any discrimination explains men's behaviour far better than assuming malice, because, frankly, not ever putting in someone else's shoes is everyone's default behaviour.
So am I
Yes pretty much this is saddly the WHOLE crux of the problem between "should" and what does happen in reality there is a gap filled with universes , multiple universes ...
And like you said hanlon's razor is a principle to live by . Never attribute to malice that which is much more adequately explained by ignorance / lack of experrience / lack of exposure / or plain stupidity ...
Sure cus what I said was give up and do nothing /s
I've given multiple reasons on why your plan wouldn't work and would likely make women more a target. I give ideas on making women a larger audience so that men don't assume automatically that they should be the default customer. You've ignored both.
So I'm going to reiterate again that I don't want equal objectification in video games, women are still going to feel uncomfortable and be pushed out. It would be nice if devs actually listened to what women wanted instead of trying to teach men a lesson and make everyone unhappy. But apparently making what women actually want is too difficult a solution.
I haven't ignored the former; I just think women will always be made a target by gamers, for any reason whatsoever, or no reason at all. There is no way of pushing back against the status quo that's going to be met with acceptance from the average male gamer.
As for the latter, I'm a bit puzzled because I don't recall reading anything about how to actually make women a bigger audience. Could you reiterate or link them?
Edit: OK, found them. I must have overlooked them the first time, sorry about that.
The best bet is to design games for women as well, make efforts to have tools to combat toxicity in gaming and try to open the game market to as low a price barrier as possible - that will bring more women into the hobby and when straight white dudes aren't the majority any more, they are going to get pampered as much.
- I don't think men are going to suddenly and spontaneously starting designing games for women. It's just not going to happen without some sort of outside influence (also, I'm assuming by this we mean "asking women what they want", because god help us if they start making games based on what they think women want).
- Combatting toxicity in gaming is actually very important indeed. Hopefully more companies realize this and stop dropping the ball. Unfortunately the trend seems to be going in the opposite direction and most companies seem to have just given up or outright embraced it.
- I'm not sure lower price barriers would change a lot, and prices are already pretty damn low, up to and including free. The current price race to the bottom is already pretty savage, especially on PC, and probably not sustainable long-term, which is an entirely different conversation.
The discussion of "equal objectification" is academic, anyway; it's never going to happen, and we all know that. As a thought experiment, I think it would be at least a step up from the present situation. It doesn't have to be about "teaching a lesson" to men, just making them more aware of what it entails. It doesn't have to be rampant sexualization of both genders like it is for women right now, either; if some wizard suddenly enforced a "sexualization parity" clause, I'd be willing to bet that sexualization as a whole would steeply drop compared to what it currently is.
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I suppose you're answering to the member I muted because said member argued in bad faith .
And again it's about damn fucking time this person understand this
"until you force a cis-straight dude to write those very same scens with a male as the objectified they just don't GET IT "
Sorry not sorry but it's just a pure fact of life yell all you want but until you pry and contort their hand and force them to do it they just don't see what's the big deal .
Not because they lack empathy , but because it isn't being done TO THEM ...
Plain and simple . So saddly yes weaponising my bisexuality DOES get the ball rolling at work and forces their brains to finally SWITCH ON !
Oh and also , games in terms of writing choices would be in a waaaay better spot if the marketing people didn't have a say in the creative process and were only coming in once it's about marketing the product ...
In fact the marketing team of "The Darkest Dungeon" gave a great GDC talk about how had they not been thrown out of the rooms where the game was being made mid way trhough the creation process Darkest Dungeon would be a waaaay different game ...
And that being forcefully thrown out by the director taught them a lesson or two about them over stepping their bounds ...
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This is exactly it. I guess it's simply because I'm a while het male myself (with plenty of like friends) that I understand what's up with them and that you need to slap them in their complacent, self-centered faces with it for them to get it. There isn't a quicker way than just having them be on the receiving end. Hell, often it's the only fucking way.
This is a pretty fantastic anecdote on so many levels, hahah. At least you have to give it to the marketing team that they were good sports about it!
I mentioned developing tools to combat toxicity in online gaming and lowering the price barrier to gaming. Gaming does not feel safe at the moment if you are a woman. Having more tools to combat this would increase women in gaming and would actually benefit other groups as well. If we lower the cost barrier to gaming such as a Netflix like streaming surface I also think we'd get more women as it allows them to try it without having to pay a big upfront cost to see if it suits them. Gaming is expensive and if you've already had to face a lifetime of being told it's not for you, as well as a hostile atmosphere, it's unlikely you will pay the huge cost to actually see if it does suit you. I don't think mobile gaming being popular amongst women is coincidental, as everyone already has a mobile phone so it's a low cost of entry. There's also designing games for women like having more female portages and less objectification, but to see big strides across the Industry in this area, I think they will actually need data showing women are playing those games. It's happening slowly but needs to increase.
While I know that the poster is not going to see this, I'm going to quote this to make an important point. I am one of the few women that is actually still making posts in this thread. It is unbelievably shitty that I am being treated like I am arguing in bad faith when I am putting across my view, as a woman, in one of the few threads on this site where it is actually meant to be about women and their views. I have not been rude to this poster and actually asked them to clarify their posts as I wasn't finding them clear. It's beyond shitty to constantly have your views dismissed by guys who in the next posts talk about how much they push to have people listen to women.
Well... this [current] discussion just points back to the overall societal imbalance issue. Being that many developers and writers and creatives and the people guiding the tone of the market, on top of the already deep rooted demographic perception, are straight dudes targeting other straight dudes in a medium that is regarded as the archetypal man-cave hobby. Which is why it is important to have equal representation from the development side, which, as rras states, borders on being a catch-22 as to cultivate a more "woman-friendly" environment, it may be necessary to see more women in positions of creative power making the games and brainstorming and directing design decisions, but in order to have women in those positions of power, the environment needs to be of the kind that will compel passionate gals to take them as well as allow them to follow such pursuits to their logical limit.
So, as also iterated by rras, the best thing one could do for the overall 'cause' is to make each baby step matter. ^^'
And Syldat, I don't think she was being intentionally obtuse with you; she even clarifies she misunderstood what you were trying to say earlier. ;/ For the record this thread has devolved into splintered clashing viewpoints many a time despite the people therein supposedly wanting 'the same thing'. xD Communing together and growing as such through discourse, that is key. As, apparently, amidst all the wording and forestry of personal perspectives things get a little heated and confusing. Mai-mai.
So, as also iterated by rras, the best thing one could do for the overall 'cause' is to make each baby step matter. ^^'
And Syldat, I don't think she was being intentionally obtuse with you; she even clarifies she misunderstood what you were trying to say earlier. ;/ For the record this thread has devolved into splintered clashing viewpoints many a time despite the people therein supposedly wanting 'the same thing'. xD Communing together and growing as such through discourse, that is key. As, apparently, amidst all the wording and forestry of personal perspectives things get a little heated and confusing. Mai-mai.
The conference talk is sadly part of the GDC paid vault (so you have to be a paying member to access the video) but to give a taster the Hellion class was the crux of the dispute marketing guys finding it dumb and "unattractive"
Tyler or the other director eventually got fed up with that non sense grabbed a chair yelling like maniac forcing them out of the dev room for MONTHS ...
And if you know anything about Darkest Dungeon fandom you know that the Hellion is legit everyone's favorite class ...
Which is why they felt compelled to admit their faults in a compelte 2 hours long GDC talk ...
Looking at this entire video sheds so much light on how much sometimes marketing dudes just don't realize how what they say especially to the higher ups sometimes just kills a project without them realizing.
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I'm a woman, and can you point to any examples beyond Mobius?
Yeah, sorry, I completely missed it. I edited my post to reply to that, but I can also address it here.
I kind of can't think of gaming being cheaper than it currently is. There's so many avenues to get games for peanuts, or even for free. Hell, one of the two threads I've ever made on Era is this one. Epic Store has been giving away some amazing games, most recently The Witness. I haven't bought a new game in months and I'm drowning in them. :D As a game dev myself, it's actually pretty scary to think I have to compete with all of that at those prices.
For a Netflix-like subscription service, there's plenty of alternatives, like Humble Monthly, where you get a bunch of games every month, yours to keep forever, plus a treasure trove of over 60 games already ready to play. Twitch Prime, which you get for free with Amazon Prime, also gives a lot of amazing games every month, most recently Snake Pass.
Coming from the 80s and 90s, where a new game would set you back 60€... today's gaming seems like a cornucopia of free stuff. :D
About the "design games for women", I think you put it really well: it's a chicken and egg situation. I also have a feeling women are far more complex and varied in wants and needs than men. You can make a game about dudes shooting / stabbing other dudes in the faces and you have well over half of the male population happy. But (and perhaps this is because I'm a man), I can't think of what a game "for most women" would even look like. Like, my SO loves Animal Crossing but hates The Sims. My best friend's SO hates Animal Crossing and loves The Sims. They're both relatively standard gaming women (insofar such a thing exists, which is my point!) but I can't think of a single game they both like outside WoW. :D
Yeah, that kind of escalated quickly. :/ For what it's worth, I wish he'd unignore you and you guys tried to restart the conversation in more amiable / charitable terms. It's the nature of online discussion; if you were talking face to face you'd probably be amazed at how much you agree with each other. :/
This is insane to me, how in the fuck do you look at this and call it "dumb" and "unattractive"?
It's not my favorite classes because she's kind of straightforward while there's much crazier (and mechanically interesting) stuff like the Abomination, but hell if she doesn't look more badass than every other class combined!
I think the issue is that we never see designs like Wol for guys in the first place, because designers already don't want to draw male characters like that, or know that the reception from male gamers won't be positive.
But to answer your actual question, I can't think of any.
The women's armor in Vanilla World of Warcraft was objectively my least favorite part of the game. I don't feel like my Alliance warrior should be leading the charge against C'Thun in a plate mail bikini that barely protects her, if at all. From what I remember, Blizzard got better over the exapansions about covering more skin and playing Final Fantasy XIV I can only think of a few pieces of armor that were really fan servicey at all (speaking from the samurai and black mage armor sets).
I touched on that in the thread, which I agree is a wider societal issue. But taking into account the hyper specific nature of a lot of gamer's mindsets (again, tying into the conditioning of gamers in the 90s to be anti-censorship no matter what) will definitely play a part in how one reacts to something like that, and the difference between "was there then removed" and "was never there in the first place" is night and day.
Hell why even gendering in the first place ...
You know what I'm fed up to see as an intersex male presenting bisexual person in the gaming landscape ?
Non japanese games about raising and taking care of Horses that you breed for Horse racing straight up assume that I'm a girly girl that's barely 15 year old and put pink and flowers everywhere in the bloody UI because "horses are for girls amaright" ...
How about fuck off Ubisoft ... (yes in France Ubisoft do have a franchise about that and both little girls grown up ladies and dudes such as myself who enjoys horse stuff we've bee yelling for yeeeeeaaarrrrrrrsssss about it )
When I say lower barrier to entry I don't actually mean game prices but console prices. Buying a console code at least a couple of hundred pounds (and that's on sale) just to try it out, when you compare to mobile, everyone already has a device so you aren't paying extra for the equipment. When I mean a streaming service, I literally mean not having to buy an extra device and just streaming from your TV. I think we are still years away from it but that kind of development could really democracise gaming and thus make it much more accessible to women.
Exactly and you illustrated my point mechanically she ain't your favorite but who's the most badass in the bunch ? Fucking Hellion of course ...This is insane to me, how in the fuck do you look at this and call it "dumb" and "unattractive"?
It's not my favorite classes because she's kind of straightforward while there's much crazier (and mechanically interesting) stuff like the Abomination, but hell if she doesn't look more badass than every other class combined!
Hell she's single handedly "The Face of Darkest Dungeon" now , Tyler even recently admitted that if they did a second entry , not having Hellion class wasn't an option everybody love her berserk attitude.
That's kind of a different conversation, which has more in common with the age-old "gendered toys" (Barbie vs He-Man). I believe rras1994 meant more like games that appeal to adult women, which don't necessarily need to be about things that are associated with feminity.
One example that I've noticed is that most gaming women I know, have played and loved an MMO (typically WoW) at some point in their lives. The obvious reason for this would be the highly social and cooperative nature of MMOs; tangentially, my SO at least likes playing co-op with me a lot more than against me, even in games where we're evenly matched.
(of course, there's the conversation of whether this is because women are more cooperative than men by nature, or if its simply society that expects / pushes / forces them to be; but whatever the case, the reality is that women do seem to end up enjoying cooperative games more).
Oh! I see, that's an excellent point. I hadn't thought of that and yeah, it shouldn't be long before TV streaming of games becomes possible. I'm assuming some smaller investment will still be necessary (a controller, at least), but yeah, this has the potential to bring a lot of new people into gaming, and hopefully a lot of them will be women. It also bears mentioning that the sit-down nature of TV games also allows for deeper experiences than the average mobile game which are often meant as a way to kill a few minutes during a commute.
And that's also why they had a truck load more fun with a Borderlands (especially 2 and PreSequel) than with say DOOM 2016 ...
Because co-op means socializing and fun times together ... (also the revive mechanic combined with a cel shaded outlook makes the mere fact of reviving a mate an awesome moment for them )
Hell I can't count the times I had way more fun with ladies on Borderlands , than being stuck with dude friends on any other generic shootbang ...
But that's what I was trying to elude to , you don't need to have the game to be "typically feminine" to be enjoyed by ladies just design in such a way that your game doesn't end up being a toxic sludge factory ...
Hell why does Armello makes them ladies happy ? Because no ingame voice chat , pre written chat lines pronounced by your chosen hero that are in character , leading to some mild roleplaying being doable on the board . Boom bob's your uncle ladies are havin a blast ...
It's not just male designs, there were certain things devs weren't allowed to do, for example, the devs of Remember Me weren't allowed to let the main protagonist have a love interest, you'll notice that A LOT of leading women in games don't have love interests and when they do A)they're never shown kissing said love interest/showing too much outward affection or B)said love interest is killed. This makes characters like Henry Green from AC:Syndicate an outlier.
Hell when Dontnod wanted to have Chloe and Max kiss as a gameplay option , Squarenix got freaked out ...
They eventually listened , but in behind closed doors the conversation wasn't pretty to listen to ...
Well, that's my point, nobody was talking about "typically feminine"...
Okay let me rephrase
"wants and needs of adult women players is already a studied subject within the industry in behind closed doors we know what they like and we would like to give it to them, problem is the result of our finding during playtesting sessions , is what the others , the marketers and the suits and the producers never ever listen to , and then act like they know better than us"
When I quoted you I quoted the part where you talked about the diversity in wants and needs ...
We look at that quite a lot constantly . But again are we listened ? No because Money Bags Mc Fuck Face , is a 50 year old cis straight dude who thinks he knows it all better than you ...
If we want game industry to change we don't need more Becky Heinnemann there's penty women coders and artists and game mechanics designners and UI designers. No what we need is more women in marketing services , in production , exectuive producer seats , in exectuvice seats ...Basically kick old Money Bags and put a woman in his fucking chair for once .
Yes I'm veering on being demagogical but sorry over here in France that's the landscape I'm living in , it's not the creators that you can't reason with , it's the fucking suits dammit.
Which is also by the way why I'm so happy Juliette Nourredine is the current president of the FAJV commission at the CNC ...
This woman didn't gave you Life Is Strange but she's been an arbiter in various disputes between Dontnod and their various publishers "Thank God For Her" ...
"wants and needs of adult women players is already a studied subject within the industry in behind closed doors we know what they like and we would like to give it to them, problem is the result of our finding during playtesting sessions , is what the others , the marketers and the suits and the producers never ever listen to , and then act like they know better than us"
When I quoted you I quoted the part where you talked about the diversity in wants and needs ...
We look at that quite a lot constantly . But again are we listened ? No because Money Bags Mc Fuck Face , is a 50 year old cis straight dude who thinks he knows it all better than you ...
If we want game industry to change we don't need more Becky Heinnemann there's penty women coders and artists and game mechanics designners and UI designers. No what we need is more women in marketing services , in production , exectuive producer seats , in exectuvice seats ...Basically kick old Money Bags and put a woman in his fucking chair for once .
Yes I'm veering on being demagogical but sorry over here in France that's the landscape I'm living in , it's not the creators that you can't reason with , it's the fucking suits dammit.
Which is also by the way why I'm so happy Juliette Nourredine is the current president of the FAJV commission at the CNC ...
This woman didn't gave you Life Is Strange but she's been an arbiter in various disputes between Dontnod and their various publishers "Thank God For Her" ...
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