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Oct 27, 2017
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Been playing Ghost of Tsushima. I really love the female characters in the game so far.

Yuna and Lady Masako are great. Especially Masako who has a really cool story and is also a tough old lady (love this type of character).
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,180
The statue isn't even attractive. Who likes that stuff?
Yep, definitely a lot. The most confusing part is these people display the statues proudly in their home. It's just wild to me that they think it's perfectly acceptable as grown adults (assuming they are anyway since those statues can be expensive af).
I don't like kinkshaming people, and what you buy and keep in your house is your business, but yeah it sucks that a lot of the people who like the picture on the right will complain the one on the left is ruining video games or something. I've seen too many posts from these kinds of people judging western games against Japanese games entirely based on what the female characters look like, and they almost always consider anime-style porcelain doll women (if they even look like grown women) to be better.
 

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,459
Beaumont, CA
I don't like kinkshaming people, and what you buy and keep in your house is your business, but yeah it sucks that a lot of the people who like the picture on the right will complain the one on the left is ruining video games or something. I've seen too many posts from these kinds of people judging western games against Japanese games entirely based on what the female characters look like, and they almost always consider anime-style porcelain doll women (if they even look like grown women) to be better.
What's really maddening is that the same people complaining about Elle will jump to the defense of stuff like that waifu saying "It's their style! It's just a drawing! Let them draw what they want!"
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,500
The English Wilderness
Yep, definitely a lot. The most confusing part is these people display the statues proudly in their home. It's just wild to me that they think it's perfectly acceptable as grown adults (assuming they are anyway since those statues can be expensive af).
TBH, I doubt many of them are even genuinely attracted to such ludicrous designs - it's the symbolism of it. It's a statement. A design like the one posted says "We don't care what Feminists think. We don't want their kind here."
 
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Cerulean_skylark

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
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Oct 31, 2017
6,408
I love Lady Masako and Yuna, they both look so good. I think Lady Masako is my favorite character so far in Ghost of Tsushima.

She's also voiced by white actress who isn't Latina (Laura Bailey). Also speaking of Ghost of Tsushima, I'm glad all the voice actors in the english dub are asian. White people doing accented english would've been such a bad mistake.

except most of these actors don't have accents. such as kim mae guest, who reprises her "Mei Ling" chinese accent from Metal Gear Solid 1.
accents in general are all over the place and makes me wonder why they're included at all.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,727
Internet manchildren: Those sexualized waifus are fine, it's a video game, it's not meant to be realistic, artistic freedom
Also internet manchildren: Abby's body isn't realistic, where does she even get the proteiiiiiin

Question: when this thread (inevitably, I think) reaches OT3 ,would people be down for a rebranding into general feminist discussion of video games, intersecting with LGBT rep etc? I see a lot of that here and I don't want people to feel constrained by the thread title because we've long moved past that (and of course sexualised designs would fall under the "feminist discussion" umbrella).
That'd be totally fine, this thread is already welcoming of this discussion too anyway :)

Although worth noting we do have this thread, which is sadly not as active:
www.resetera.com

Diversity and Inclusion in Videogames |OT| Because it Matters OT

A study, conducted by EA’s Global Consumer Insights team, was published recently that aimed to analyze what inclusion means to players. It is a great study, with a lot of interesting takeaways, but I suspect for many the conclusions are confirmations of what they already knew. And that is...
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,180
Also speaking of Ghost of Tsushima, I'm glad all the voice actors in the english dub are asian. White people doing accented english would've been such a bad mistake.
except most of these actors don't have accents. such as kim mae guest, who reprises her "Mei Ling" chinese accent from Metal Gear Solid 1.
accents in general are all over the place and makes me wonder why they're included at all.
Wait so how do they handle it? Everything I've seen in English trailers has been accented English, and when I play the game it's probably going to be in Japanese.

Whether or not to do accents if a game (or other piece of media) is in a foreign/historical setting is a discussion that keeps coming up. Historical European settings seem to settle on British accents which sound just foreign enough to American audiences, but the choices get more complicated if you're dealing with somewhere like Italy, France, a Spanish-speaking country, or an Asian country.

Some people took issue with how that series Chernobyl had everyone just use regular English accents even though the characters are Russian, Ukrainian, and Belorussian. The writer of the show said they went that route so the actors could just act normally without having to worry about putting on accents. Personally I'm fine with this because the dialogue is supposed to sound "native" to English-speaking audiences. And I'm going to imagine that dubs in other languages don't put on accents either (do they?). In the case of Tsushima, do they other dubs even use Asian actors? Or is that importance only placed on the English version? Same with Assassin's Creed Odyssey, which used Greek actors for the English voice track.

Most interesting to contrast with Tsushima are English dubs of Japanese-developed games that are set in Japan. They pretty much invariably use regular American accents and it doesn't really sound out of place depending on how much Japanese terminology they choose to either literally translate or leave as-is. Same applies to English dubs of anime.
 

Cerulean_skylark

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,408
Wait so how do they handle it? Everything I've seen in English trailers has been accented English, and when I play the game it's probably going to be in Japanese.

Whether or not to do accents if a game (or other piece of media) is in a foreign/historical setting is a discussion that keeps coming up. Historical European settings seem to settle on British accents which sound just foreign enough to American audiences, but the choices get more complicated if you're dealing with somewhere like Italy, France, a Spanish-speaking country, or an Asian country.

Some people took issue with how that series Chernobyl had everyone just use regular English accents even though the characters are Russian, Ukrainian, and Belorussian. The writer of the show said they went that route so the actors could just act normally without having to worry about putting on accents. Personally I'm fine with this because the dialogue is supposed to sound "native" to English-speaking audiences. And I'm going to imagine that dubs in other languages don't put on accents either (do they?). In the case of Tsushima, do they other dubs even use Asian actors? Or is that importance only placed on the English version? Same with Assassin's Creed Odyssey, which used Greek actors for the English voice track.

Most interesting to contrast with Tsushima are English dubs of Japanese-developed games that are set in Japan. They pretty much invariably use regular American accents and it doesn't really sound out of place depending on how much Japanese terminology they choose to either literally translate or leave as-is. Same applies to English dubs of anime.
They do general "Asian" accents. But they're not Japanese. At least not consistently. Basically my point was that I heard an NPC who sounded exactly like a fake Chinese accent the same actress did like 20 years ago and that is what made me look it up to see if that is who she was. And it was.

They should have went straight english to save the embarrassment

Faking an accent imo is stupid especially when the game already has some serious "orientalist" issues to deal with in the first place.

I'm amazed tlou2 got a billion negative thinkpieces but no major outlet has yet to significantly cover this game's western fetishization of it's setting
 
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Oct 25, 2017
13,246
They do general "Asian" accents. But they're not Japanese. At least not consistently. Basically my point was that I heard an NPC who sounded exactly like a fake Chinese accent the same actress did like 20 years ago and that is what made me look it up to see if that is who she was. And it was.

They should have went straight english to save the embarrassment

Faking an accent imo is stupid especially when the game already has some serious "orientalist" issues to deal with in the first place.

I'm amazed tlou2 got a billion negative thinkpieces but no major outlet has yet to significantly cover this game's western fetishization of it's setting

Seems like there's an obvious enough reason for that.

Not as many clicks involved as something that can feed off and into the hate.
 

Wanderer5

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,018
Somewhere.
Gotta say, I am really liking this recreation of Zelda from Wand of Gamelon by the Owlboy creator. Reminds me that it would be really nice to have Zelda playable in a main title (please BotW2 D:).

 

Scheris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,408
Reminds me that it would be really nice to have Zelda playable in a main title (please BotW2 D:).

I'm hoping the initial trailer is hinting towards that, since IIRC it looked like Link was caught in that energy thing imprisoning the corpse.

Would be a way to handle the "Link loses all of his earned equipment due to plot" issue by having you play as Zelda, plus it would go with the more adventure-like outfit she had in the trailer.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
I found an amazing mod for Monster Hunter World.
www.nexusmods.com

Alternative Female Armor

Replaces a lot of the female armors (mainly leg armor) with a more form-fitting armor, inspired by the male counterpart.
Gotta say, I am really liking this recreation of Zelda from Wand of Gamelon by the Owlboy creator. Reminds me that it would be really nice to have Zelda playable in a main title (please BotW2 D:).


Her Cadence of Hyrule design was nice too.
14d21c5ae439db05df8fea0fbdbde852.jpg
 

Deleted member 56306

User-requested account closure
Banned
Apr 26, 2019
2,383
I found an amazing mod for Monster Hunter World.
www.nexusmods.com

Alternative Female Armor

Replaces a lot of the female armors (mainly leg armor) with a more form-fitting armor, inspired by the male counterpart.

Her Cadence of Hyrule design was nice too.
14d21c5ae439db05df8fea0fbdbde852.jpg

From the little that will load that MHW armor mod looks exactly like what I was looking for months ago!
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,611
I'm hoping the initial trailer is hinting towards that, since IIRC it looked like Link was caught in that energy thing imprisoning the corpse.

Would be a way to handle the "Link loses all of his earned equipment due to plot" issue by having you play as Zelda, plus it would go with the more adventure-like outfit she had in the trailer.
Would be cool.
Better than this.
bc0619637dea05167cf146f0bddb1338.jpg
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,365
Although worth noting we do have this thread, which is sadly not as active:
www.resetera.com

Diversity and Inclusion in Videogames |OT| Because it Matters OT

A study, conducted by EA’s Global Consumer Insights team, was published recently that aimed to analyze what inclusion means to players. It is a great study, with a lot of interesting takeaways, but I suspect for many the conclusions are confirmations of what they already knew. And that is...

I think this being primarily intended as a women's space made me feel more comfortable coming here to post my lesbian thoughts on the last of us, to be honest, than that generic diversity thread would have made me feel. I don't know exactly how to voice it but.. the generic diversity thread is such a vague wide net that I don't necessarily feel like I'll get support from that thread the same way I got support from this thread? I'm phrasing it badly I think, I'm not sure how to try and get across what I'm trying to say.

I think the generic diversity and inclusion thread is so inactive specifically because it is casting such a wide net. I trust the women's thread to be there for me with my lesbian issues, even though they only affect a minority of us here.

I would not trust such generic thread to be there for me about X issue. And I imagine other people with other diversity things they want to discuss feel similarly across a broad spectrum of issues. Resetera is largely comprised of a lot of people who believe they are more progressive than they are, and I think that holds back generic diversity threads from seeing much active input, because you see people post some pretty toxic stuff in the main threads sometimes, and you know those people are still likely to be involved in threads like that if they want.
 
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Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,996
the wilderness
That'd be totally fine, this thread is already welcoming of this discussion too anyway :)

Although worth noting we do have this thread, which is sadly not as active:
www.resetera.com

Diversity and Inclusion in Videogames |OT| Because it Matters OT

A study, conducted by EA’s Global Consumer Insights team, was published recently that aimed to analyze what inclusion means to players. It is a great study, with a lot of interesting takeaways, but I suspect for many the conclusions are confirmations of what they already knew. And that is...

I'm pretty new to ResetEra, but if I may, I would very much love a general feminism thread that's not necessarily focused on video games (but it also of course could include video games related discussions). I thought this one could be it, but it unfortunately doesn't seem to be very active. Or maybe it's not well known?

In any case, while a Diversity and Inclusion thread is important to have, I'm not sure it's the right place for specific feminism discussions. I like how RecLib expressed it above. I have the same feelings.
 

TheCthultist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,460
New York
Been playing Ghost of Tsushima. I really love the female characters in the game so far.

Yuna and Lady Masako are great. Especially Masako who has a really cool story and is also a tough old lady (love this type of character).
Considering how bland the main character has been so far, Masako has been a real standout since her introduction. Ive always been a sucker of the badass old women archetypes in stories, and they absolutely hit it out of the park with her character.

havent done much at all with Yuna yet, so looking forward to seeing how she is once I get around to her storyline.
 

Numberfox

Member
Aug 5, 2018
5,999
Talking about VTubers, I think there are decent positives with the concept. It allows both men and women to stream with a digital avatar instead of a face cam, so you can have an idea of the person's reactions or mannerisms to content without seeing their face, which can otherwise easily lead to harassment or insults if the person isn't conventionally attractive. It's an extra layer of anonymity so folks who aren't comfortable showing their actual face to the public can still provide entertainment similar to that while streaming. Plus it gives the individual an additional unique draw to them since avatars can vary a lot more than human faces/bodies. hololive specifically is iffy because while there's a lot of genuine stuff, it also feeds into idol culture by being a female-only VTuber group where 90% of the content doesn't involve male interaction whatsoever. Nijisanji is a different VTuber group that prides itself on diversity, so you have male VTubers as well as non-binary VTubers like Ryushen or Melissa Kinrenka. Melissa specifically stated during a stream "I thought the place that would probably accept me regardless of my gender was Nijisanji, which is what made me choose it."



A big reason they decided to do VTuber stuff is because they wanted to sing, and I particularly like these two covers:
 

Deleted member 4532

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,936
Talking about VTubers, I think there are decent positives with the concept. It allows both men and women to stream with a digital avatar instead of a face cam, so you can have an idea of the person's reactions or mannerisms to content without seeing their face, which can otherwise easily lead to harassment or insults if the person isn't conventionally attractive. It's an extra layer of anonymity so folks who aren't comfortable showing their actual face to the public can still provide entertainment similar to that while streaming. Plus it gives the individual an additional unique draw to them since avatars can vary a lot more than human faces/bodies. hololive specifically is iffy because while there's a lot of genuine stuff, it also feeds into idol culture by being a female-only VTuber group where 90% of the content doesn't involve male interaction whatsoever. Nijisanji is a different VTuber group that prides itself on diversity, so you have male VTubers as well as non-binary VTubers like Ryushen or Melissa Kinrenka. Melissa specifically stated during a stream "I thought the place that would probably accept me regardless of my gender was Nijisanji, which is what made me choose it."



A big reason they decided to do VTuber stuff is because they wanted to sing, and I particularly like these two covers:

Thanks for posting this because I barely had an idea on what a VTuber/Hololive is. Those covers are really good!!
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Considering how bland the main character has been so far, Masako has been a real standout since her introduction. Ive always been a sucker of the badass old women archetypes in stories, and they absolutely hit it out of the park with her character.

havent done much at all with Yuna yet, so looking forward to seeing how she is once I get around to her storyline.
I am playing in japanese and one aspect I love about her in that dub is that she goes ape shit at times. She's got a battle cry and everything. During her quests I sometimes can't even decide if want to go ghost or samurai cause she just charges in like a killing machine screaming at them to fight her and does kill them easily.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,727
I think this being primarily intended as a women's space made me feel more comfortable coming here to post my lesbian thoughts on the last of us, to be honest, than that generic diversity thread would have made me feel. I don't know exactly how to voice it but.. the generic diversity thread is such a vague wide net that I don't necessarily feel like I'll get support from that thread the same way I got support from this thread? I'm phrasing it badly I think, I'm not sure how to try and get across what I'm trying to say.

I think the generic diversity and inclusion thread is so inactive specifically because it is casting such a wide net. I trust the women's thread to be there for me with my lesbian issues, even though they only affect a minority of us here.

I would not trust such generic thread to be there for me about X issue. And I imagine other people with other diversity things they want to discuss feel similarly across a broad spectrum of issues. Resetera is largely comprised of a lot of people who believe they are more progressive than they are, and I think that holds back generic diversity threads from seeing much active input, because you see people post some pretty toxic stuff in the main threads sometimes, and you know those people are still likely to be involved in threads like that if they want.
I'm pretty new to ResetEra, but if I may, I would very much love a general feminism thread that's not necessarily focused on video games (but it also of course could include video games related discussions). I thought this one could be it, but it unfortunately doesn't seem to be very active. Or maybe it's not well known?

In any case, while a Diversity and Inclusion thread is important to have, I'm not sure it's the right place for specific feminism discussions. I like how RecLib expressed it above. I have the same feelings.
Yeah, I agree this thread should be primarily for women and about women. Was just reminding everyone that the other thread does exist and it's a shame it has less activity.

Maybe a "Feminist Video Game Discussion"/"Sexism in Video Games" megathread similar to the anime one?
I'd be fine with that. I'll check with other female staff just in case but I can't imagine why anyone would object. And as an aside I'm glad this thread keeps going strong that we might need an OT3, damn <3
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,365
Yeah, I agree this thread should be primarily for women and about women. Was just reminding everyone that the other thread does exist and it's a shame it has less activity.

I wasn't trying to disagree, I knew we were keeping this one a feminism thread. I was just offering my opinion as to why I think that other thread is much less active. More focused threads feel like safe spaces, even for topics that are more outside of the actual focus (like my lesbianism), where as wide open general threads don't really give the feel of safe spaces. I think that is what holds back that thread from seeing more posts.
 
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esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,380
I would not trust such generic thread to be there for me about X issue. And I imagine other people with other diversity things they want to discuss feel similarly across a broad spectrum of issues. Resetera is largely comprised of a lot of people who believe they are more progressive than they are, and I think that holds back generic diversity threads from seeing much active input, because you see people post some pretty toxic stuff in the main threads sometimes, and you know those people are still likely to be involved in threads like that if they want.
This is probably why I retreat from most discussions outside of this thread. Even here (here being Era holistically, not this thread specifically), very few people, relatively speaking, are all that interested in actual progress, video games or otherwise. They're not outright hateful, typically, but that's not really the same as demanding change. I'd tend to call it polite centrism. Not necessarily interested in change, but maybe (sadly it's just a maybe) don't shout at people who ask for it, thanks.
 

pizzabutt

Member
Apr 28, 2020
796
Been playing Ghost of Tsushima. I really love the female characters in the game so far.

Yuna and Lady Masako are great. Especially Masako who has a really cool story and is also a tough old lady (love this type of character).
I love Lady Masako, especially when you do her quests more and find out
she's bi and you help her save her ex from some ronin.
 
Oct 25, 2017
27,043
Been playing Ghost of Tsushima. I really love the female characters in the game so far.

Yuna and Lady Masako are great. Especially Masako who has a really cool story and is also a tough old lady (love this type of character).
So it's not just me, I almost came in here yesterday to champion this game. How the hell did the Sony devs step up the female representation so well this gen? You got Aloy, Ellie, Abby, Masako and Yuna, even Chloe. They're all 10/10's I hope they can keep this up for next gen because I've been loving it.
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,365
I was just coming to post about that. Fucking of course right? "Games with women don't sell". Which has been so proven as untrue for a while now.


And of course the usual shit heads who want to pretend minorities in game's are "forced inclusion" and that developers really don't want to do with but are being made to, these people will be conveniently silent about developers actually being forced to include something in a game.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,803


VE8c.gif


Of. Fucking. Course.

Quite frankly I feel vindicated as it's something I suspected that they had deliberately chosen not to have a female only main character. Honestly I think the Aya one hurts the most, could have a woc main protag for an AAA game, how many of those are there?

And honestly given that Eivor is a female name, it sounds like the main for the Valhalla game was probably meant to be a female protag only too
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,365
That mindset makes me wonder if the developers of AC: Syndicate before this one had to fight to include Evie at all at some point right? "Women don't sell, include a male character" is not a far step away from "Don't waste assets on making a female character".
 

Kaah

Banned
Jun 3, 2019
1,823
Paris
Not to mention Horizon was a brand new, unproven IP. Assassin's Creed has been a great selling brand for years and would continue as such even if a mainline game had a female protagonist.
Still disappointing how Aveline was relegated to the Vita.
To be honest, when Odyssey entered development the AC franchise was dying. Syndicate and Rogue flopped hard.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
The article checks out from a pure perspetive of the end game quality.

The difference between Kassandra and Alexios is staggering but they still managed to butcher that a bit with the DLC.
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,365
^^ Man fuck that... Jill's account is so much worse than I was already imagining things. And marie's quote I guess confirms what I was thinking about Evie too.

It gives perspective to the old "female characters are too difficult to animate" comment from Ubisoft, doesn't it? When was it, around 5 years ago?
Yeah, for Unity that had 4 assassin's at once, but they were all generic dudes.

I feel like I have heard that excuse from a lot of developers "There is no playable woman option because we don't want to spend the money animating it".
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,927
To be honest, when Odyssey entered development the AC franchise was dying. Syndicate and Rogue flopped hard.

Consider franchise fatigue was in full force by Syndicate's release. Since AC2, Ubisoft released about 8 games within a 7 year span.
Rogue likely sold less because it released the same year as Unity and was only available on last gen initially.
 
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