I'm fuckin deadThat's not right... I have the figure and it looks more like this:
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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Ah the "sexy goomba" baby got back parody music video guy has a very sizable fanbase. This whole "boner culture" stuff never ceases to amaze me.
Some of these dudes you gotta trick into thinking critically. "I like to consider myself an ass-man over a boobs-man. But I'm also a Judith Butler-man! What, you don't know about the ol' JB?!"
Haha! He is saying boobs is reason but because they are two things he says TWO reasons! So funny!
-_- Speaking of insufferable. That joke just feels so worn out. I mean I know it probably never hit it big with the ladies in this thread. I always had this "Oh this guy..." sort of reaction if it came up in a movie or something. But seeing it as that sort of go to joke for people on the internet is pretty damn obnoxious.
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Yeah, I find the, "I'm honest about being a terrible person!" doesn't really speak well to one's character.
edit: Am wondering, anyone have opinions on Kimetsu no Yaiba? It sucks to have such an interesting character in Nezuko be confined to a box (a literal fridging of a woman character), but it's interesting to see her also save the MC's life on multiple occasions and her interactions with the world as a demon. It's... fraught with the whole "mamoru" thing. Again, of two minds about it, especially as women take a more central role in demon hunting later.
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It makes sense from a "If you're gonna bullshit me a least be up front about it" sort of way. Like if they're gonna sexualize women (Which they shouldn't) don't come up with some "She needs to breathe though her skin" bullshit.
Being horny doesn't make one terrible and I do prefer this over contrived "she breathes through her skin" crap, but the way he wants to just objectify women but also pretend that he totally respects them with his deep, profound human themes and ~lore~ is just the cringiest shit, it's sad how people eat up that nonsense.
Being horny is fine, but that's a line for something outside of mainstream titles funded with millions of dollars by Square Enix. I don't think a person who intentionally damages their IP so they can have some T&A is helping themselves, the company, or anyone other than those who are self-serving. It is a question of whether or not the author respects their own work and the work of others, and including that stuff shows he clearly doesn't. Self-inserting imagery from philosophical and religious texts doesn't make someone deep, it just makes them an asshole if they don't know what they're doing with it (and video games on the whole have no clue, because they take only the barest cruft of what any of those ideologies have to offer, and then poorly regurgitate some slurry of ideas while selling that there's meaning in the slop).
Video games, designers, directors, have to want to the medium to be better, or we'll just keep getting what we've always gotten. And the industry (and I do mean the industry when I say this) writ large hasn't given two shits about quality in decades, because Sekiro still isn't going to sell better than Candy Crush and gacha garbage.
If Yoko Taro is a "visionary" video game creator, we are doomed to decades of mediocrity with little more than solipsism at its core.
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I can identify two main reasons. The first is simply inertia: video games are heavily influenced by fantasy art, and cheesecake was the most common way to depict female characters in fantasy. This is most obvious when you look at influential artists like Frank Frazetta or Boris Vallejo. It takes time to for an industry to identify the problematic aspects of what is an accepted practice, and even longer to shift away from said practice.
The other problem, and the one that gives this thread so much energy, is Japan. A lot of games come out of Japan, and this entire topic of objectification isn't in the conversation when it comes to video games. To begin with, feminism barely exists in Japan, and it has no real political or social power there. At this point, any change is going to have to be imposed from outside of the country. To illustrate just how backward Japan is, bear in mind that it didn't outlaw the possession of child pornography until 2014.
It's been discussed to death and the problem with that notion is manifold, including but not limited to:
1) Men and women are not sexualized (or more generally, people aren't opressed) by society in the same way. Both genders being equally sexualized in one game is the equivalent of a game portraying both black and white people in stereotypical ways. Or think of Persona 4/5's stereotypical teenage boy horndog party member and stereotypical flamboyant man-chasing NPC couple. Do they cancel each other and make the game OK?
2) MEN would not be OK with a (mainstream) game that sexualizes men, which is why the conversation has remained in the realm of the hypothetical for the past few decades of gaming history. If you're new to feminism and think mainstream videogames sexualize men, it's time to whip out this comic again:
I mean sure but that character exists, it's just not Batman.
more like Loki and Namor.
I mean sure but that character exists, it's just not Batman.
more like Loki and Namor.
Indeed, and there's more (the modern version of Nightwing is another quite popular example). That's two versus... how many sexualized heroines? 90% of them?
Now do the same with videogames. Let's count how many men like that there are in mainstream videogames.
*crickets*
We're you seriously expecting they would? Of course not but I do think it won't be nearly as riske as many of us think it could be. You'll see.
No, I was not expecting it would. However, I don't see how they could simultaneously keep the outfit while making it less risque.
The issue is larger than just having sexy half-naked women in games, so inserting a few scantily clad men into vidya games wouldn't solve the larger issues of how women are treated/sexualized/objectified in society. Even in games that do have some skin-showing male eye candy (for example, Gladio in FFXV), they aren't treated the same in the way the characters are framed, contextualized, developed etc. And even if they were, the larger context still remains wholly unbalanced against women.
A skort and maybe longer top. All characters shown so far have revamped outfits.
By making the tank top and mini skirt a tiny less revealing. Also I don't expect Tifa's breasts to be massive like in the original game. She'll have a perfectly average pair just like she did in Advent Children or Dissidia. Of course that won't stop certain parts of the Internet of crying foul and censorship by the likes of SOYNY.
Apparently her official bust size is 92cm (yes, she has an official bust size...), I'm not sure what that even means though as it's not like I know the sizes of people I've seen in-person.
OBJECTIFICATION is wrong. When people say sexualization they usually mean objectification. There are no problem of a character having a sexuality, but most of the almost naked women are basically virgins who are afraid of actual sex.
The main problem is not "a game" it is "the industry", "the society"
So to make it even we need like a few years of mostly dudes being objectified.
I mean sure but that character exists, it's just not Batman.
more like Loki and Namor.
These dudes are sexualized, but they are not objectified.
I don't care about that, it's how she looks and like I said in every iteration of her after FFVII she's always looked like an attractive woman with average sized breasts and I'm sure that's how she'll look in the remake.
I don't think it's the breast size that necessarily matters, but whether or not the rest of her body makes sense for what she has. Like if they're big she should have the frame to be able to support them.
They'll make sense and because FF hasn't gone full anime since OG FFVII Tifa won't have the frame to support massive breasts and thus will have average looking ones. I trust we won't end up with a twig for a woman with beach balls attached to her chest like we do see in so many more anime-fied games.
I mean, we pretty much have a reference on how she will look like. Look at her most recent games/movie. They've already settled on a look.
A non-slim female character in a JRPG, an important character no less? Does such thing even exist?
It's pretty standard battle shounen for the most part outside of a few twists. It's got a wacky cast of elite soldiers (The pillars) versus a group of villains numbered by strength. You know how it goes. It's treatment of it's female characters isn't particularly great, but I wouldn't say it's bad either. Nezuko gets to contribute quite a bit to fights and her stuff gets really fun later on when her powers develop a bit more. One of the female pillars has a fanservicey design, but I kind of like some of the stuff they do with her character. Granted Kanao is the Queen right now with a capital Q after the most recent chapter.
The issue really is that "porn is a thing." People are horny, and there's nothing inherently wrong with genres that support titillation. The issue is cultural context. If every game is softcore porn objectifying women for the sake of horny men, then something has gone horribly wrong. Media and cultural norms feed into each other like an Oroboros, so when society views women as sex objects, they're depicted as sex objects, and vice-versa. Hence the push for strongly written female characters in games and movies. So when someone tries to objectify women and then lie about it, they're doing a lot more harm than someone who's basically saying "it's basically softcore porn."
That said Yoko Taro really needs to cool his pants. While he's at least honest, he's still not helping anyone by making action characters comically sexy just because he's horny. It's still bad.
Face palming at the girls outfit. Like yeah it the post-apocalypse so clothing aren't going to be in good condition but yo.
Jojo is pretty mainstream right now and that's extremely homoerotic. I think dev's aren't tryingIt's been discussed to death and the problem with that notion is manifold, including but not limited to:
1) Men and women are not sexualized (or more generally, people aren't opressed) by society in the same way. Both genders being equally sexualized in one game is the equivalent of a game portraying both black and white people in stereotypical ways. Or think of Persona 4/5's stereotypical teenage boy horndog party member and stereotypical flamboyant man-chasing NPC couple. Do they cancel each other and make the game OK?
2) MEN would not be OK with a (mainstream) game that sexualizes men, which is why the conversation has remained in the realm of the hypothetical for the past few decades of gaming history. If you're new to feminism and think mainstream videogames sexualize men, it's time to whip out this comic again:
At least from those who're making these sort of designs.
JoJo may be popular with women (and gay men) but it's still a power fantasy. Characters are cool, assertive and in control, not sensitive and vulnerable.
Replace "devs" with "publishers" and I actually agree. It's just that male sexualization is entirely orthogonal to the issue of female sexualization.
:thinkingemoji:
(In the old forum I frequented, this edit was always posted as a reply to the original comic)
I still don't understand how Facebook ads work (disabled all preferences and tracking) and I know that mobile games is a goldmine of misogynistic gacha games but... WTF is this shit?? Seriously, there are so many wrong things on so many levels going on here
Edit plz someone help me make this image smaller I have no idea how to ERA
Edit plz someone help me make this image smaller I have no idea how to ERA
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EDIT: Poco, try putting that image inside a quote.
On the subject of JoJo, I've always believed that Araki doesn't get enough criticism over neglecting female characters for more than a half of the franchise's run.
And then we have his quasi author avatar/self-insert Rohan Kishibe almost bragging on one of the spin-off about his manga, Pink Dark Boy, and how it became a smash success while including little to no women on the work, specially after editors had told him to do so.
On the subject of JoJo, I've always believed that Araki doesn't get enough criticism over neglecting female characters for more than a half of the franchise's run.
And then we have his quasi author avatar/self-insert Rohan Kishibe almost bragging on one of the spin-off about his manga, Pink Dark Boy, and how it became a smash success while including little to no women on the work, specially after editors had told him to do so.
I mean they technically already have with dissidia by making small adjustments:
a longer top that fits more closely goes a long away
That reminds me, wonder how bad they'll make her jiggle.I mean they technically already have with dissidia by making small adjustments:
a longer top that fits more closely goes a long away
Probably around how it was in Advent ChildrenThat reminds me, wonder how bad they'll make her jiggle.
I read that he wanted to delve into lisa lisa more but was kept from doing so, this is the quote:
"Araki personally admits that he's fond of female characters who are capable of fighting for themselves. He commented on his intents to have Lisa Lisa portrayed with "uncommon realism" for women in shonen comics, but he was held back from going as far as he would have liked with her"
I think its from a 2007 magazine interview, i dont necesarrily know what he means by being "held back" but i'd like to believe he wanted to do more with female characters but was prevented because of the shonen culture.
At the risk of going "um actually" (you can tell I'm unbiased because of my Rohan avatar) I think that quote is specifically about selling the series with fanservice, not having women characters in general, since Part 5 and 6 extensively focus on female characters. Not sure if that's good enough, though, and I think it's fair to feel that way.
JoJo is an ode to male beauty and extravagance, with men who are allowed to be more than the cliches that media allows them, where they can express emotion and openly weep and not be judged as unmasculine for it. Unless he specifically falters in places like he did with Lisa Lisa or Valentine's wife in Part 7 I don't think it's that big a deal to have a series about well written guys anymore than I think that Sailor Moon or She-Ra desperately need male characters. Not that they're equivalent, since there's tons of work focused on men while women lead series are constantly scrutinized, but that I don't think JoJo takes away from anything.
Part 7 stars a handicapped protagonist's that literally states he his at a negative position in his life and with tears in his eyes declares he just wants to make it to zero
We need a threadmark for this, titled
"How male gamers typically react when a male character is ACTUALLY objectified"
I have an issue with David Willis treating himself as an arbiter on what's woke when he feels like it but yeah, the original comic is a great shorthand for summarizing what's up with objectification vs. idealization.
Yeah JoJo is all about big emotion from the male protagonists. Jotaro, who is basically an angry fencepost in a hat, is the only one I'd describe as not sensitive and Part 6 explicitly goes out of its way to cast that in a negative light. And Johnny is all vulnerability and sensitivity.
Yeah JoJo is all about big emotion from the male protagonists. Jotaro, who is basically an angry fencepost in a hat, is the only one I'd describe as not sensitive and Part 6 explicitly goes out of its way to cast that in a negative light. And Johnny is all vulnerability and sensitivity.
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