Dad Joke Mafia |OT| I quit mafia to be a housekeeper, now I'm a maid man.
- Thread starter MrHedin
- Start date
I'm afraid the check has planted in people's minds, and it's hard to shake viewing Vere from an angle of being scum because of it.
I'll be back.
I'm still lost too. My current scum hunches are CaptainNuevo and Anex.
I would have loved to hear more from Stan today.
I don't like Neki's reads at all, but I'm still convinced Monkey was town. So that's a pass for now.
...
It would be so great if we could cooperate! But apparently, that's a scum move.
'Bad targets'. Sure. The difference between us is that you were trying to doom and gloom the thread while I wanted to move discussion forward. You could have done the latter, but you chose not to.
Realized I misinterpreted Godfather abilities. Point taken.
Yeah, this doesn't feel right. I also don't like how Stan has gone silent since the PoE has excluded them after he bemoaned his entrance due to the Ambu suspicion. I think it's time to fuel up that wagon.
Vote: Stantastic
How come the dinosaur with a sensitive nose was single?
Because of the ex-stink.
Vote: Stantastic
How come the dinosaur with a sensitive nose was single?
Because of the ex-stink.
I am committed to risking a donut tonight, so here's the scenarios I see:
1. Scum kills and I die.
2. Scum kills me, doesn't change town's path forward.
3. I get converted. I'm already in PoE, you eliminate me tomorrow anyway.
4. I don't die, and target confirms my role.
5. I don't die, target doesn't confirm my role. You believe me, we flip them as scum.
6. I don't die, target doesn't confirm my role. You don't believe me, flip me, and then flip them.
I'm sensing a slight net benefit to town in doing so, so that's my path forward.
I should note I don't think there's a universe in which there's two scum left and it's possible I can be converted. Killed perhaps, but not converted.
OP
OP
==== DAY 4 VOTES ====
Day Start
Vincent Alexander (2 votes)
Stantastic - #1,661
Verelios - #1,702
Stantastic (1 votes)
CaptainNuevo - #1,594 #1,730
anexanhume - #1,759
CaptainNuevo (1 votes)
anexanhume - #1,580 #1,658
Conditional-Pancakes - #1,711
Verelios (1 votes)
Vincent Alexander - #1,745
Conditional-Pancakes (1 votes)
LaunchpadMcQ - #1,657 #1,751
anexanhume - #1,658 #1,759
CaptainNuevo - #1,730
Not voting: LaunchpadMcQ, Neki
Post Counts:
LaunchpadMcQ: 78 Vincent Alexander: 53 anexanhume: 52 Neki: 41 Conditional-Pancakes: 40 Verelios: 31 Stantastic: 26 CaptainNuevo: 8
Current Countdown:
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Day Start
Vincent Alexander (2 votes)
Stantastic - #1,661
Verelios - #1,702
Stantastic (1 votes)
anexanhume - #1,759
CaptainNuevo (1 votes)
Conditional-Pancakes - #1,711
Verelios (1 votes)
Vincent Alexander - #1,745
Conditional-Pancakes (1 votes)
CaptainNuevo - #1,730
Not voting: LaunchpadMcQ, Neki
Post Counts:
LaunchpadMcQ: 78 Vincent Alexander: 53 anexanhume: 52 Neki: 41 Conditional-Pancakes: 40 Verelios: 31 Stantastic: 26 CaptainNuevo: 8
Current Countdown:
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
It's not necessarily that I think Anex is explicitly scum, but that whole fruit vendor and forbidden doughnut thing seems too intricate for the kind of game we're in. I think it might be a gambit. But that's just a hunch and you would be perfectly right in telling me that it's not worth a lot. Right now I'm suspecting CaptainNuevo more than Neki to be honest (for the reasons I already mentioned), but I know you're not agreeing with that.
Hopefully, we'll have a clearer idea about that tomorrow.
You said your estimation of Vere would be greatly diminished if we couldn't trust the green check. I think it's safe to say we can't trust it. Would you vote there?
As far as gambits go, I think it's the most plausible compared to puppet master Launch. Thus, I'd expect to be eliminated if we were entertaining false PRs in play. That's why I'm deploying my role tonight.
The green check is still poking me behind the head, but yes, I think it's fair to say we can't trust it. I think I could see myself voting there with enough evidence.
I know it might be my dislike of meta talks influencing my opinion, but posts like this stated as absolute facts make me nervous:
OK. I'm back.
Do you buy we're likely dealing with a godfather in this, and if so, does it affect your perspective of Vere/Randomless?
I'm curious here, is your hangup on this more that the role and mechanic itself is too intricate, or is it that the total sum of claimed PRs seems unbalanced with what we're assuming scum has? I don't necessarily want to dive too deep on this point unless you feel strongly, but if we're approaching this with the usual "Scum should have something to balance against the PRs", neither of those have it.
There's a possible world in which scum assumes the town PRs based on what PR(s) they have for example, making it easier to fake claim roles or guess others.
I buy that it's possible. I'd need to hear an argument as why it's "likely", though.
Vere has been involved and challenging people seemingly for the benefit of town. I won't lie that it would leave a bad taste in my mouth if Rando was scum after that exit, but it was clear that he needed to bounce on the game for his own well being.
Still, scum is perfectly capable of challenging others for appearances (see Nat challenging me D1).
I would not be opposed to a Vere vote.
Trying to solve leaning on mechanics/role plausibility has hurt town this season, so I'd hesitate to predicate our votes primarily on that.
I really don't think VA is scum. So right now that leave me with a vote between Stan and Vere.
What are you all thinking?
(I know people will come back to this post and read this question as scum but fuck that noise)
What are you all thinking?
(I know people will come back to this post and read this question as scum but fuck that noise)
Here's where I'm at with the Vere scum path.
1. We have to assume there's a godfather. This is difficult to ascribe an exact probability.
2. The odds of finding a scum at random. Now, do we assume that Launch knew enough to make an informed decision and improve these odds? Regardless of replacing out, Rando would have been right to draw suspicion and just narrowly survive.
I'd argue that Rando's play on D2 makes the check a certainty, so I think we're back to just guessing on the odds of a godfather existing, which puts us back in mechanics.
The other angle to consider is that Launch is still alive. The NK order has been a hot topic, but with Kopite still alive, you'd argue he was the right kill last night. Scum had to consider the odds of Kopite blocking a launch kill vs. Launch finding yet another scum. One can argue that the Kopite choice is even more obvious if Launch already found the scum and doesn't know it.
So yes, I can envision Vere as godfather. The possibilities seem self-consistent.
1. We have to assume there's a godfather. This is difficult to ascribe an exact probability.
2. The odds of finding a scum at random. Now, do we assume that Launch knew enough to make an informed decision and improve these odds? Regardless of replacing out, Rando would have been right to draw suspicion and just narrowly survive.
I'd argue that Rando's play on D2 makes the check a certainty, so I think we're back to just guessing on the odds of a godfather existing, which puts us back in mechanics.
The other angle to consider is that Launch is still alive. The NK order has been a hot topic, but with Kopite still alive, you'd argue he was the right kill last night. Scum had to consider the odds of Kopite blocking a launch kill vs. Launch finding yet another scum. One can argue that the Kopite choice is even more obvious if Launch already found the scum and doesn't know it.
So yes, I can envision Vere as godfather. The possibilities seem self-consistent.
OP
OP
==== DAY 4 VOTES ====
Day Start
Vincent Alexander (2 votes)
Stantastic - #1,661
Verelios - #1,702
Stantastic (1 votes)
CaptainNuevo - #1,594 #1,730
anexanhume - #1,759
CaptainNuevo (1 votes)
anexanhume - #1,580 #1,658
Conditional-Pancakes - #1,711
Verelios (1 votes)
Vincent Alexander - #1,745
Conditional-Pancakes (1 votes)
LaunchpadMcQ - #1,657 #1,751
anexanhume - #1,658 #1,759
CaptainNuevo - #1,730
Not voting: LaunchpadMcQ, Neki
Post Counts:
LaunchpadMcQ: 81 anexanhume: 56 Vincent Alexander: 54 Conditional-Pancakes: 45 Neki: 41 Verelios: 31 Stantastic: 26 CaptainNuevo: 9
Current Countdown:
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
Day Start
Vincent Alexander (2 votes)
Stantastic - #1,661
Verelios - #1,702
Stantastic (1 votes)
anexanhume - #1,759
CaptainNuevo (1 votes)
Conditional-Pancakes - #1,711
Verelios (1 votes)
Vincent Alexander - #1,745
Conditional-Pancakes (1 votes)
CaptainNuevo - #1,730
Not voting: LaunchpadMcQ, Neki
Post Counts:
LaunchpadMcQ: 81 anexanhume: 56 Vincent Alexander: 54 Conditional-Pancakes: 45 Neki: 41 Verelios: 31 Stantastic: 26 CaptainNuevo: 9
Current Countdown:
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
I think you mixed up Zipped and Kopite
But wait, you just hit on something, but it's the opposite. If I checked the godfather, then there's no use for me anymore. I'd be dead. Then it can't be Vere.
Cop and Godfather generally balance one another out. This won't always be the case, but also....and I am dead set on this...the game is Dad Joke Mafia. It's in the name---Godfather. Hedin wouldn't dare not have that role. It would bring great shame.
I'm trying to re-read as much as I can of the game since Vere swapped in, and nothing is pinging my radar as overly towny or scummy. There are some things I can read as one or the other. Vere is pretty good at Mafia, so I have to go back to Randomless. And I keep getting caught up on Monkey's long post.
But then I'll be honest. I didn't like this interaction on Vere's part:
I see.
Pancakes has repeatedly put me on their town list. It's not a secret. Vere put a lot of pressure here in a way that almost felt like bait. Pancakes got lit up by Neki, and (love you Pancakes) shown that they can get defensive. I think Pancakes is an easy target for scum to try and put the screws to in hopes they'll show more of that side, trip on themselves, and draw attention.I didn't like how this played out.
The thing with point 2 is that Rando didn't "narrowly survive" by his own doing. If Rando is a godfather, he certainly wasn't playing it at that time, since that vote was incredibly close until the end and the fighting back wasn't even really started by him.
That play and strategy makes sense if you can pull it off and play that way, but I refuse to believe the play exemplified that day was part of that grand strategy.
What?
Even if can't find more scum, you're still trusted town.
No more use to whom?
I think they'd want the doctor off the table before they got their cop.
At that time, we had nabbed two scum in a row and we're potentially hot on the tail of the third. That'd be incredibly demoralizing and I can understand the defeatism.
Vere knows how these roles are usually designed. He designs games. He knows the vig has 1 shot, the doc has 2, the cop has 2 - just like I knew. He'd have chosen the path I laid out earlier without me having to say it - take out the bigger threats first, Zipped then me.
Taking you out makes sense because it would make sense because it gives the implication your role can have more use.
I think we have to assume scum didn't know zipped was doctor N2. Do we think Vere would or would not have known at that point?
I told him he was on the chopping block. I think that was a genuine reaction to that.
Monkey said it out loud for Zipped, and she and I had an exchange about it on D2. Vere said he dead D1 and D2 before coming into D3. I think he would've known.
Checking in and I see the vote spread is...ok.
Do you think Whamban goes the sympathy route and Nat supports it early on? I can't see that personally.
Zipped/Monkey were open about it. It was simply a matter of whether you believed it or not. In response to why Zipped wasn't on Vere's town list even though their claim was out there:
Now we're into WIFOM as to whether it was said to make it seem like it's obvious he should have went there with NK.
Whamban has played the sympathy card as scum before. I don't know if Nat validates it.
Recently? Every time I've seen dejected Ambulance it's been town.
He got me with that in Fate 2. I don't know if he's done it since, which I guess would just be The Thing. He said he was demoralized there after he thought he'd screwed his team, but I don't know the context since I didn't follow the game closely.
This sounds like NAI play then. Vote out Stan/ambulance if they were being scummy but I don't think they were being scummy.