Hawthorn

Member
Jul 16, 2020
2,703
Arguing with someone about what they think of my play or me arguing against someone else's plsy is not the same as trying to persuade other people of aomwonwa alignment.

Blarg implies I'm shit at mafia I'll react and argue with him. If I don't agree focusing on the messages is a great idea I'll argue about that too.

But I ignored chuggs request for reads today, I ignored his request for my thoughts on ephi day 1 and generally prefer to keep that stuff to myself for as long as I can.

I expected there to be a lot more talk about our vote switches, hence me referencing that in the message, there hasn't been so I've not been in a position to learn anything from it.

I'm certainly not going to guide the conversation there. Because I don't lead conversations, I'll respond and take part in the ones I want to or feel I can but I'm not going to actively push because its just not me.

I suggested we talk more about the vote switches and chuggs and nats little spat. No one did, so fine I'm not going to push it.

So, basically you're saying that you won't take the lead in any conversations. You'll respond and take part, but only when it's an argument about strategy or someone accusing you, not when it's about your read on another player (for as long as possible). Do I have that right?
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,881
==== DAY 2 VOTES ====
Day Start

Ephidel (1 votes)
jman1954goat - #1,167

Blargonaut (1 votes)
TheChuggernaut - #1,198

TheChuggernaut (0 votes)
Blargonaut - #1,199 #1,225

EvilChameleon (0 votes)
Blargonaut - #1,004 #1,022

AllThingsPurple (0 votes)
Blargonaut - #1,130 #1,199

Not voting: AllThingsPurple, Sorian, SalvaPot, Ephidel, Hawthorn, weemadarthur, Blargonaut, HPsauce, Stantastic, EvilChameleon, Funky Dude Sparks

Post Counts:
Blargonaut: 111 TheChuggernaut: 94 Stantastic: 49 Funky Dude Sparks: 48 weemadarthur: 28 AllThingsPurple: 28 Hawthorn: 27 jman1954goat: 23 SalvaPot: 19 EvilChameleon: 17 Ephidel: 15 Sorian: 11 HPsauce: 11


Click here to go to the Vote Tool!

Day 2 Ends In:
y61kddltn6
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
I don't agree, because I think mafia would be keen to hide their knowledge of multiple messengers, we have no reason to think that they knew the flavor before we did, and it feels in character for wee to send that quote in the context of "oh, I just became a messenger"
thats fair enough, less fair is the immediate jump to scum reading me for not just immediately letting it pass, why is it so unreasonable for me to dare bring it up?
Like since when has it been the norm in this game to take anyone's excuse at face value with zero follow up or pressure?
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
Arguing with someone about what they think of my play or me arguing against someone else's plsy is not the same as trying to persuade other people of aomwonwa alignment.

Blarg implies I'm shit at mafia I'll react and argue with him. If I don't agree focusing on the messages is a great idea I'll argue about that too.

But I ignored chuggs request for reads today, I ignored his request for my thoughts on ephi day 1 and generally prefer to keep that stuff to myself for as long as I can.

I expected there to be a lot more talk about our vote switches, hence me referencing that in the message, there hasn't been so I've not been in a position to learn anything from it.

I'm certainly not going to guide the conversation there. Because I don't lead conversations, I'll respond and take part in the ones I want to or feel I can but I'm not going to actively push because its just not me.

I suggested we talk more about the vote switches and chuggs and nats little spat. No one did, so fine I'm not going to push it.
this is all well and good but have you considered being a provocative ass to people instead?
works wonders lemmie tell ya.
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
like im on the higher end of the post count and i havnt even said anything useful, iv just stated the obvious a couple times and then a few more times cuz people kept giving me shit over it.
 

Hawthorn

Member
Jul 16, 2020
2,703
thats fair enough, less fair is the immediate jump to scum reading me for not just immediately letting it pass, why is it so unreasonable for me to dare bring it up?
Like since when has it been the norm in this game to take anyone's excuse at face value with zero follow up or pressure?

I mean, I followed up about it too, I wanted to see the actual quote. It was more the way you seemed to jump to it as a scum read. I guess that could just be a style difference.

That made me chuckle

XD

But tbh, I feel I've answered you well enough, I don't think its extraordinary for town to say one thing but believe another and they are just trying to see who reacts to it. I gave you a heads up that if I did thst I didn't really believe it. There is nothing more to it than that.

I'll be honest too, I felt like it was possible you were trying to pocket me with that comment in your message. Your answers have been enough for me to not want to go after you right now, but I'm going to keep it in mind.
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,595
UK
I mean, I followed up about it too, I wanted to see the actual quote. It was more the way you seemed to jump to it as a scum read. I guess that could just be a style difference.



XD



I'll be honest too, I felt like it was possible you were trying to pocket me with that comment in your message. Your answers have been enough for me to not want to go after you right now, but I'm going to keep it in mind.

That's fair enough. I messaged you because you were one of three people I felt most positive about after d1, unfortunately one of those three died last night and the other... well I'm not sure sending a message to that person would be worthwhile.
 

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Member
May 9, 2020
12,593
I don't even want to ask this but I feel obligated to.
Why do you think Sorian messaged you as opposed to anyone else?
Rather not say.

I do think Sorain is Town for what it's worth I just hope he calms down with these Gambits.

Sorian if you gambit 100 times per game there not special anymore and nobody believes you anymore.

Less is more friend.
 

Hawthorn

Member
Jul 16, 2020
2,703
EC, HP, Sparks, and Ephi have not claimed who they sent messages to.

EvilChameleon HPSauce Funky Dude Sparks Ephidel I don't remember any of you strongly objecting to the arguments in favor of mass claiming who we sent messages to, at least for today. Could you each please either claim the recipient of your message last night, or publicly say that you refuse to do so? If you would like to explain why you choose not to do so, I would also appreciate that.
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
Mine went to Sorian. At the time I thought he'd make a good test subject because I figured he'd be likely to comment so I'd know if it worked.
 

Hawthorn

Member
Jul 16, 2020
2,703
Updated list of message claims:

Natiko sent to: Maybe HP? received from: Hawthorn, Chuggs
Chuggernaut sent to: Natiko received from: no one
EvilChameleon sent to: Sparks received from: Mafia, neutral hunter, or someone pulling a bad gambit
HPsauce sent to: ??? received from: A person who referenced MGS mafia
SalvaPot sent to: Sorian received from: no one
Sparks sent to: ??? received from: EC
Sorian sent to: Jman received from: Salva, Ephi, and one other person
Ephidel sent to: Sorian received from: Stan
ATP sent to: Hawthorn received from: no one
jman sent to: Chuggs (claimed) received from: Sorian
weemadarthur sent to: Stan received from: ???
Blargonaut sent to: ??? received from: Jman (claimed)
Stantastic sent to: Ephi received from: Weemad
Hawthorn sent to: Natiko received from: ATP
 

Hawthorn

Member
Jul 16, 2020
2,703
I thought maybe it was Natiko from your first description, because he ran the MGS game, but I didn't know the nature of the content XD
 

SalvaPot

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,633
I don't like that Salva tied up the vote yesterday with 4 minutes to go.
I don't like that everyone is fine with it, is that just something Salva does?

I can on a surface level understand why someone would do that to see what happens, but then I would expect them to have commented on it afterwards and I don't think he ever did.

He said he wanted to see "something other than that silly train" but there were three minutes to go, he clearly wasn't going to get anything other than that silly train, nor did he try a last minute push for anything of his own.

SalvaPot
What did you get out of tying the vote?
Do you at least feel like you learned anything about anyone as a result?
I did get something out of it, there was enough time for others to vote and avoid a tie, and if there was a scum in either traim then it comes to reason scum might expose themselves a but by saving a scummate. I saw te Geno train coming since he had one vote because it was an easy vote to justify since he wasn't around and that tells us very little. But if its a closer race and later on sparks gets flipped as scum then it becomes a powerful tool to sniff out further scum. Close races are better in mafia and turning up the heat makes it happen.
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
Okay, I know Hawthorn is still waiting on more answers for her list, but I also want to get this down while I have a moment.
I want to talk about Chuggs.

Yes, yes, I know..
Hear me out.

If you actually look at what he's saying about people (not just me!) he's shading half the roster and even the town reads he's dishing out are backhanded and waffly.
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
On Geno
Geno's reaction to Sorian felt kind of forced I guess? But him putting himself out there in the middle of all that bullshit feels more like paranoid town Geno than scum Geno.
That being said I feel like I'm kind of stretching a bit with that and am not super confident on it, and I'm kind of considering switching to "Throw shade and dip" Geno, but for now, I'm going to keep it on Ephi.
Also I know I was town reading him before, but I don't think I've ever seen Geno confidently tunnel someone like this as town although he really like to as scum, and that's setting off all my red flags

I am tempted by the Geno train though
Vote: Geno

Feeling Ephi a bit more, but sure.
Starts with a joke about scum reading him.
Decides he seems like "paranoid town geno" but adds that he seems "forced"
Says he threw shade and dipped, and pivots to scum reading him despite him not actually having done anything more, because those same actions are now setting off red flags due to scum meta, and then despite sowing the seeds for the Geno train he's only "tempted" by it when it initially materialises which allows him to support the train while it's ostensibly someone else's.
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
On Hawthorn
I like Thorny so far even though there's not much there. Which probably means she's scum but whatever
Thorny still makes me nervous because I know she fucking kills it as scum. Her questioning my knowing about the messenger thing when I didn't actually say that felt kind of weird and kind of felt like scum Thorny try to follow a game plan, but I think she's a better player than that so I'm still leaning town for now.
He likes what Hawthorn is saying, but immediately undermines it with both the "not much there" and the scum comment.
Hawthorn is a town lean but she makes him "nervous" and he didn't like her line of questioning, but hey, surely if that was a plan it would have worked better.

On ATP
ATP feels like town ATP. Really want to see him kill it as scum one day to get an idea on his current scum game, but this feels like textbook ATP so far. Might be my top town. He feels honest and trying to really dig into posts he can dig into.
ATP is town but he buffers it by saying he doesn't really know ATP's scum game.
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
On Sorian
I feel like we're just going for the easy kill because no one else has done much. I'm not going to go to bat for him, but this feels pretty NAI for Sorian, and it feels like kind of a lazy vote.
Sorian is good at this game, but I'm really getting the "On his own on his own little island vibe" from him and that typically means town. He's sneaky so I'm not going to stand by that, but that's my read there as of now.
He was pushing against the Sorian vote, but he hedges for NAI rather than town even while defending him.
Marks his actions as typically town, but then immediately says that's not something he'd stand by.

On Salva
Salva leans town for me too. Somethings about his play I don't care for, but he always has a real scummy style to his town game, and this gives me more slightly wrong town Salva vibe than scum Salva.
can't tell if this is just super wrong town Salva or scum Salva. Both are possible
Salva leans town but Salva is scummy anyway. Maybe he's scum or maybe he's just wrong.
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
On Stan.
Stan's kind of weird. Felt like he contributed nothing so far, but I feel like scum Stan might be more self conscious of that.

Well I say that, but I kind of go back and forth on it, because I remember Stan joke voting me in a game where he was scum then justifying that later and I feel that's what he did for Sparks.

If scum is one Sparks it's probably one of Stan or Blarg, but I don't think it's both because a scum stack on Sparks seems silly
This is true, but it still gave me some odd vibes. Tell me some current reads stan the man
Town reads him but in a backhanded way, and even then still links his actions to something he did once before as scum.
And further insists the vote gave him odd vibes even though Stan asked about the opposing train and was upfront about the vote he ended up sticking with being a policy vote.

And then by saying scum is in Blarg or Stan, but probably not both, that lets him push again if he manages to get one of them out and they flip town.

This is someone setting future plays.
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
He even does the same for EC who he kinda goes to bat for.

Ooooooh I kind of hate this response, but this is pretty consistent with your style last game so I'm just going to let you do you for now.
He hates the response, but he'll let him off "for now"
After watching his last game, you're not going to get a read list out of EC at this point. Vote him if you aren't happy about it, but if you want a different answer, you're going to be barking up that tree for a bit.
I didn't even ask for a reads list! Just any reads at all. If he has absolutely nothing then he's not even trying - straight up.
Oh yeah I'm not disagreeing, but I'm just saying his answer isn't going to change. Do what you will with that

EC I like. I know people are getting onto him for his lack of reads, but that's just EC. Him talking about the fake red check he got, and the vote on Blarg just felt natural to me. Would not vote there.
Flat out says he likes him, while excusing things he wants to overlook.

But when he's actually asked if he thinks EC could be mafia he still can't resist hedging his answer again.
I guess it's possible he just absolutely big brained this and has us on a chase for a messenger throwing out shit gambits that doesn't exist, but I'm like 95% sure he's just town.

This is someone he's defending and town reading, and even suggested was a push scum could hide behind, and even there he pushes out a hypothetical for the opposite.
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
And I accept that I'm being mildly offensive when I state this bluntly, but the people he was defending most are the ones with explicit potential to be anti town presences later. Sparks and his erraticness. EC and his dodging.
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
By undermining his own town reads as he's making them he's feeding people doubts.

This is someone who knows they're going to have to keep switching up their reads to keep the eliminations going making sure they have something to refer back to and an out when they prove wrong.

So you know what, sod it, I'm starting here today.
Vote: TheChuggernaut
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,652
I'm still not seeing the chuggs thing. I know Nat thought he was scum and atp is a strong town read for me, but chuggs spent a lot of time keeping talk going when the thread was quiet, and I thought scum chuggs got more quiet in those circs.

Blargonaut I have no defense for. Last time he was this unhelpful, he was whazzit. Homerunner? Er. Homelander? Some neutral serial killing role he was having trouble meeting the wincon on.

Ephidel and hawthorn i'm seeing more action from, which is better than day one (haw said stuff day one but it was a bit scummy in her usual way while ephi just wasn't present), this does give connections to work with when we flip a scum player, so that's an improvement.

sparks has disappeared, i liked the d1 sparks, not sure why this one can only manage a single topic.

stan i can't read, he talks so much about just one thing also. Both these last 2 are hiding in the misc background non-scum hunt chatter.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,349
I have to work in like two hours

Have been quiet because I've been lazy

Not sure about chuggs but he always hedges his bets so that nai

Ephidel doing a whole Lotta wifom