2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT | Hickenlooper makes it to the debate

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Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,141
Lima, Peru
As compelling as saying a candidate that lost the nomination by 3 million would have won an election that said nominee lost.
Surely you understand the difference between a primary and a general election. What works with the democratic base doesnt necesarily work with independents.

See also: 1968, 1972, 1980, 1988 and 2004.

LOL and? Hillary was beating Trump in polls until she wasn’t...he lost the nomination by MILLIONS of votes. But sure lol...
...? Im trying to find an argument behind your snark.
 

BoboBrazil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,253
I'm sure he's not the only one Bernie hired in secret to so this for him. If this were another candidate Bernie supporters would be acting like this was the end of the world
 

Cybit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,006
I wish I had a clear favorite candidate so that I'd know which campaign to try intern for this summer.

Lmao, anyone wanna tell me who to support?
I'd try a smaller campaign if you want to get an idea of what it is like higher up (Mayor Pete!). If you want a "typical" experience, try Bernie / Kamala / someone in the top 3 of the moneymakers / polls. The grind is reaaaaaaaal.
 

Mona

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,663
Surely you understand the difference between a primary and a general election. What works with the democratic base doesnt necesarily work with independents.
im astonished that so many people on this forum dont seem to understand this, ive seen it pop up far to many times
 

ThomasJames

Member
Jan 15, 2019
1,811
Surely you understand the difference between a primary and a general election. What works with the democratic base doesnt necesarily work with independents.

See also: 1968, 1972, 1980, 1988 and 2004.



...? Im trying to find an argument behind your snark.
I only really see one election year listed in which we were explicitly appealing to "the base". The others were mostly based on contextual decisions influenced by current events at the time.

1968: Hubert Humphrey, because RFK had been assassinated so Humphrey stepped in out of necessity.

1972: McGovern. Yup, you're right here. This one was an attempt to grab the leftist crowd and just run with it.

1980: reelection for Carter who was a moderate southerner that got nominated thanks to Watergate fallout and his appeal as an honest person, not for being a devoted leftist.

1988: Dukakis. Not too familiar with '88 but I don't recall Dukakis really being a liberal firebrand.

2004: John Kerry. Hardly a progressive, even by 2004 standards. 9/11 happened, we were at war, we felt that a veteran was our best shot to combat the unity around Bush in the early days of the Iraq/Afghanistan wars.
 

Latpri

Member
Apr 19, 2018
681
Ok, I went ahead and read the article. Is the absolute disgust and vitriol Im supposed to be feeling because Sirota worked for The Dispatch and had some sort of obligation to neutrality despite being in the tank for Bernard?

Or is it just that Sirota is rude on twitter sometimes, even when all the things hes pointing out are completely true?

Im completely failing to parse the controversy here.
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,000
Ann Arbor, MI
Let me know when you've worked out the math between hiring Sirota under the table and supporting Palestine that makes the former outweigh the latter.

I'd love to see your work here.
This hasn't stopped you from mocking very nonsensical things about Beto....so no you don't get a free pass to dismiss your candidate lying to the press and hiding hiring purely so he can break a pledge he made and try not to get caught doing so.
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,340
Bernie Sanders is done unless he fires Sirota.
It's pretty unacceptable to hire someone of such low morals.
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
622
I'm sorry, but this sort of thing from Beto is exactly what should set off alarm bells for anyone that considers themselves in any way left of center. Beto has a history of shit like this and I really, really implore people to look beyond wanting "a presidential President." Focus more on protecting the planet from looking like what the machines did to it in Horizon: Zero Dawn.

His backing off of medicare for all in favor of "multi-payer" (this means nothing - it just means tinkering with the existing system, and if you accept the existing healthcare lobby and for-profit system as it is you're just accepting an inherently immoral and cruel system because "but it's hard and we don't want to take rich people's money tho." It reminds me of an old Lewis Black bit where he's talking about how the opposition to going completely green basically just boils down to "but it hurts my head! it's so thinky!") just has all the trappings to me of a candidate ripped right out of 2007 or something. His passing comments in favor of the GND don't even mean much to me at this point without him elaborating on what he thinks it even means we do.

As an aside: hiring Sirota is even worse than I thought it was earlier today - terrible decision on Bernie's part.
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,000
Ann Arbor, MI
Ok, I went ahead and read the article. Is the absolute disgust and vitriol Im supposed to be feeling because Sirota worked for The Dispatch and had some sort of obligation to neutrality despite being in the tank for Bernard?

Or is it just that Sirota is rude on twitter sometimes, even when all the things hes pointing out are completely true?

Im completely failing to parse the controversy here.
Bernie made a pledge he and his staff wouldnt attack the other primary candidates, to stay positive within the party.

He broke that pledge and tried to cover it up.
 

weirder

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
2,833

Good advice from Howard Dean that early polls are a complete waste of your time
This is great advice. Now is the time to get excited about having a choice that most closely reflects your ideal. This opportunity might not happen again for a long long time.
Maybe the candidate a person is most excited about is a long shot. It doesn't matter at this point. Go all in and have an exit plan by looking into and supporting other candidates that closely align.
 

jakomocha

Member
Oct 29, 2017
506
California
Bernie, Buttigieg, Warren (she'll probably flame out though)

Maybe Beto.

Bernie's probably good if you want to get involved with DSA-type people since that's his support base.

Buttigieg could use the help and I think he's going to be big in the future, you could get your foot in the door so to speak.

Warren is like Bernie but more "proper".
Alright, thanks! Honestly, to play my cards right I should probably apply to a lot of them. I actually like a lot of the candidates when it comes to their politics (thank god Medicare-for-All has become more mainstream), so that's not really a problem for me. Here's to hoping the 2020 Democratic campaign cycle doesn't get as hostile and toxic as it did in 2016 (yeah, guess I'm hopelessly naive).

You could help with voter registration instead of a candidate if you can't choose.
Honestly I did voter registration stuff for so many months in the lead-up to the 2018 election that I'm pretty burnt out with it. I had both an internship and a lot of extracurricular stuff related to registering people to vote. I know it's for the greater good though so I'll still look at general Democratic Party internships and stuff.
 

Latpri

Member
Apr 19, 2018
681
Bernie made a pledge he and his staff wouldnt attack the other primary candidates, to stay positive within the party.

He broke that pledge and tried to cover it up.
Oh, lol. That was a stupid pledge to make. The moron Democrats need to be taken to task for every shitty thing theyve done. He never should have made such a dumbass pledge.
 

B-Dubs

Oh well, what the hell?
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
16,390
Aren't leftists constantly accused of purity test? Now that we don't apply the test to our boy Bernie suddenly they demand us to apply the test?
Dude, this is the kinda shit that gets you fired from jobs. This is not nothing, it's a pretty huge ethical breach on Sirota's part.
 

Fork

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,141
Lima, Peru
I only really see one election year listed in which we were explicitly appealing to "the base". The others were mostly based on contextual decisions influenced by current events at the time.

1968: Hubert Humphrey, because RFK had been assassinated so Humphrey stepped in out of necessity.

1972: McGovern. Yup, you're right here. This one was an attempt to grab the leftist crowd and just run with it.

1980: reelection for Carter who was a moderate southerner that got nominated thanks to Watergate fallout and his appeal as an honest person, not for being a devoted leftist.

1988: Dukakis. Not too familiar with '88 but I don't recall Dukakis really being a liberal firebrand.

2004: John Kerry. Hardly a progressive, even by 2004 standards. 9/11 happened, we were at war, we felt that a veteran was our best shot to combat the unity around Bush in the early days of the Iraq/Afghanistan wars.
Well your interpretation is not inaccuratd but thats not what I intended. What I meant was that the candidates that the democratic base like enough to nominate havent been that strong on the general, which shows a dissonance.

Kerry, Dukakis, Carter and McGovern got the support of the dem base and they lost in landslides (except for Kerry).
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,000
Ann Arbor, MI
Oh, lol. That was a stupid pledge to make. The moron Democrats need to be taken to task for every shitty thing theyve done. He never should have made such a dumbass pledge.
It doesn't bother you that he made the pledge and then covered it up that he hired Sirota to attack the other candidates to try and break it without getting caught?
 

RailWays

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,051
People really don't see the issue with having an official on your campaign team that's been writing hits on competitors for months undisclosed until someone starts doing some digging? Like, even after we rake CNN over the coals for the same shit?

Like, if you don't give a shit, whatever, but I don't see how people don't understand why some would see an issue with this.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,896
Dude, this is the kinda shit that gets you fired from jobs. This is not nothing, it's a pretty huge ethical breach on Sirota's part.
And if people continue to push for it Bernie should fire him and apologize publicly or whatever it is people want.

But this is not going to get me to #cancelbernie because my support of him is not based on norms and ethics in hiring practices.

To me this is the kind of politics that doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. How many people will live or die based on Bernie's hiring of Sirota?
 

Royalan

Yeah I'm in my bag, but I'm in his too.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
3,377
I'm talking about Hillary dismissing the accusations against Bill.
Then yes, if that becomes the framing over the actions of Bill himself, I absolutely do think there's sexism involved in that. And my feelings on this go beyond the Clintons. Who are we to say how Hillary, or any wife, should feel or respond to accusations against their husbands? People like to forget that, unless we're talking something on a new level of vile, wives tend to also be victims in these situations. Not just in terms of vows broken, but wives often have an emotional (and religious) incentive to believe their husbands, and that's also completely taken advantage of.

So, yeah, I like to keep my thoughts on what I know Bill should have done, versus what I think Hillary should have done. Because how the heck can I know that?

Besides, it doesn't help that in a lot of these conversations, the implication is pretty naked. Hillary stayed with him...so that must mean Hillary was ok with it...and that must mean Hillary was complicit the whole time. Yeah, gross.

EDIT: Aaand this is what I get for writing a post on mobile walking down the street as a major story breaks.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,551
Again, that you apparently don't think non-disclosure of conflicts of interest are problems ain't on anyone who's actually given pause by it
Honey, you're arguing with people who think that if someone's bothered or offended by something, they're only pretending so they can get a dig at Bernard.

You can't have a discussion with people whose moral foundations are made of jello.
 

LinktothePastGOAT

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,879
Surely you understand the difference between a primary and a general election. What works with the democratic base doesnt necesarily work with independents.

See also: 1968, 1972, 1980, 1988 and 2004.



...? Im trying to find an argument behind your snark.
The claim that Bernie WOULD HAVE won is a ridiculous claim since nobody knows. What we DO know is that he lost the nomination and helped formulate arguments and attacks for the RNC to use against Hillary when applied to progressive voters. Bernie knew he wasnt going to win but drew out the primarys.
 

Machachan

Member
Mar 21, 2018
2,230
Where are the people that usually shout "left is eating itself", complain about "purity tests" and "divisiveness" the moment any minority person criticizes a dem in good faith, I wonder? Isn't this much bigger, and much more underhanded? Odd, odd.
 
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