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Avengers: Endgame |Spoiler OT2| Changing the past doesn't change the future
- Thread starter Deleted member 1248
- Start date
actually I've got it. this is all make believe right? so let's just get rid of Black Widow's character entirely. you can't trust these studios and writers with her anyway so just write her out completely. makes sense to me, she's not even real. instead we'll have a few moments throughout the movie with Clint alone where he hears this faint whisper but can't place where it's coming from or if he's just imagining it. then he goes to Vormir alone. Red Skull tells him the rules and he starts going on about how he's alone, what the hell is he supposed to do now, travel back in time to get someone he loves and then come back, the fate of the universe is on the line, etc. you can feel the anxiety and tension build as it seems like he's not going to be able to do what he needs to be able to do. then he hears that faint whisper again. he looks around befuddled. Red Skull doesn't hear it. the whisper continues to get louder and louder. "Clint.........Cliiiiint...........it's me. the one you've always loved. Cliiiiiiiint." Clint stops everything he's doing as he hears these words. he takes a second to take it all in, mouth slightly agape as the realization comes across his face. you see a single tear form in his eye as he reaches his hand up behind his shoulder to intimately touch one of his arrows. "please........not you," Clint whispers with more tears starting to stream down his face. he knows now what he has to do. he tries to compose himself while he starts walking towards the cliff slowly taking his gear off as he gets closer. he now has all of his gear in his hand, his bow, his arrows, all of his custom arrow tips. he peeks over the edge of the cliff and gives his gear one last look and then he does it. he throws his bow and arrows over the cliff watching intently as they all fall. his tear-filled eyes never blink as he watches his one true love fall to its death. he hears "Clint.......Clint........it's ok........I..........love..............." but before the last word can be uttered the bow and arrows smack on the ground. Clint quickly shifts his gaze elsewhere, not wanting to see what remains. he's now weeping. Red Skull even comes over to try and console him but Clint brushes him off. as Clint falls to the ground weeping he looks up to the sky as the clouds part preparing to give him the stone for his sacrifice. he screams "WHY?!?!?!?! WHYYYYYY?!?!?!" and as he opens his mouth to scream once more everything cuts to black. then we see Clint laying in the puddle with that citrine glow coming out of his right hand. the deed is done. a soul for a soul.
People really complaining about Nat's last scene? If it wasn't for her, they would have never gotten all the stones in the first place. She made the hardest decision out of anyone during the time heist prior to Tony's finale. In the beginning of the movie she's saying "if there's a chance to bring everyone back we owe it to everyone not in this room to at least try". She doesn't have the powers that both Caps have, she's just a human. And she's still brave enough to give fighting Thanos a (obviously losing) shot.
Revisionism happens in stories all the time because contrary to popular belief movies aren't outlined and planned that far ahead (yes even the MCU). As revisions go it's a pretty satisfying answer in my opinion. I think people really just need to let go of this notion that Marvel and Kevin Feige have planned everything out for these movies.
Personally, I was thinking of the moment as more of a good opportunity for a joke to subvert the audience. So you know, not hamming it up like that even in a more realistic way. Basically, the Soul Stone trial is crappy writing in IW and I would rather they have not double downed on it in EG in all ways.
Okay, but Black Widow isn't the one who wrote that scene and the discussion is about the people who wrote that scene.
Mjolnir is psionically controlled. I do believe it's a retcon, but:
If Steve just want3d to participate in the good time with his friends, but not actually lift Mjolnir himself and embarrass everyone else, when it budged the second he thought about it staying put, it would stay put no matter how hard he pulled.
I'm sure if your suggestion of replacement actually resonates, people would not resist so much. However, as it stands, you are suggesting a joke-y scene that's not even really clever. "Why can't Hawkeye throw down his weapon because it has sentimental value right?" was something most everyone would think about to get out of that situation, up there with "why can't they just attack Red Skull and throw him down instead". And for what? To take away an original Avenger's awesome moment because a female superhero's heroic sacrifice simply happens so often in cinema? I really can't agree with that; it's just subversion for the sake of subversion.
I'd wager the reason why the wrote it that way is pretty much that straightforward: they wanted to write a heroic sacrifice and not a subversion. I honestly fell this suggestion that they killed her off because she's a woman and therefore more sympathetic a bit patronizing.
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I'm talking about the decisions they made. There's been this common disconnect in this thread. I'm talking about this movie like a movie that was writen and produced by a studio and I'm talking about the movie from the perspective of that process. The majority of people are responding as if the movie as if it is representing some non-fictional piece of history. I am aware that people here know this is fiction, but people are responding in ways that make it sound like theyre not treating it that way.
But that would require that Steve already knows he can lift Mjolnir and that's another can of worms. There's no time enough to think about making the hammer staying put when you're going all in to lift it and realize it moves, remember both Thor and Vision wield it almost like if it was a toy, not a heavy weapon, and even Vision praise how maneuverable the hammer is, so I understand whorty people don't have much problems with the weight of the hammer.
looking at the scene
Just with the strenght he does in that small push to lift it he should have the hammer in his hand before realizing the hammer should be put in to not embarass Thor.
Tbf I don't know anything about the comics so I dunno if the Mjolnir could communicate with Rogers and tell him to chill or some random comic stuff :/
holy shit lmao
I was just trying to think, what significant characters DIDN'T show up in this movie? I mean, they even got retired actor Robert Redford for this (though it is possible they filmed it before he filmed his last movie).
All I can think about is Jane's assistant, and some other dead characters like Vision and Odin. They even fit in Selvig in there (in screenshot form). I don't recall seeing M'Baku in the Wakanda crew, but I could've easily just missed him.
All I can think about is Jane's assistant, and some other dead characters like Vision and Odin. They even fit in Selvig in there (in screenshot form). I don't recall seeing M'Baku in the Wakanda crew, but I could've easily just missed him.
MBaku was literally running next to cap in the final battle.
Well there you go. While they did a commendable job trying to keep things clear, there was too much to possibly absorb it all the first time around.
Robert Redford announced his retirement after he shot this movie, but before the Old Man & the Gun came out.
M'Baku led the Wakandan chant during the big gathering. Though speaking of, I suppose Nakia and Everett Ross are missing.
Ross was in the funeral scene. Betty isn't there, but Liv Tyler hasn't been a thing since the Hulk movie (which is probably the movie most detached from the overall MCU).
So the list so far of living significant characters not in Endgame is Nakia, Darcy, and Betty Ross.
Been thinking about the gauntlet. Safe to say Thanos's gauntlet channel the stones properly, this was shown when it stops hurting him after he put the final stone at the end of IW.
Then the snap happen; the gauntlet is now toast with his injury being pretty minimal.
Something interesting to note, time stone doesn't seem to reverse the snap injury or the damage done to the gauntlet.
Few days later, he did the 2nd snap to destroy the stones except this time it was with a broken gauntlet causing the injury to be more severe.
Then the snap happen; the gauntlet is now toast with his injury being pretty minimal.
Something interesting to note, time stone doesn't seem to reverse the snap injury or the damage done to the gauntlet.
Few days later, he did the 2nd snap to destroy the stones except this time it was with a broken gauntlet causing the injury to be more severe.
Coulson died in the first Avengers movie, got resurrected in the Agents of SHIELD TV series, then died again there.
I meant Black Panther's Everett Ross, not the Hulk's Thaddeus Ross. He's not there, right?
Whoops, you're right. I got my Ross's mixed up. Add him to the list!
Entering the pantheon of stupid scenes with that hurricane scene in Man of Steel, and Thalia's death in TDKR lmao.
Tony Stark would've loved for Ross to have to come and kiss the ring after Tony sacrificed himself to save the world.
Good point. I wonder what his story is after Black Panther. I suppose we'll just have to wait to see if he made it.
It could also be said that Freeman and Cumberbatch may want to give one another space away from the Sherlock series where they are very closely associated. You don't want to get to the point where people see Dr Strange and start looking around for Everett Ross.
But in my head canon, Freeman plays the cape.
No way to fit him in considering he's dead in the present day and was dead during the Avengers 2012 scenes
He died again? He was brought back to life in the Shield TV show.
"Hawkeye loves his bow and arrow more than Natasha", yet he retires (twice) to be with his family, back in Civil War for Steve's side instead of where Natasha still claiming to be friends, he retires again and is not even in IW, and it's brought back because of the snap.
OF COURSE....
of course....
OF COURSE....
of course....
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Yes, but from the commercials for season 6, it seems like he's back again. I've avoided spoilers, but from what I gather, he thinks he is (or possibly straight up is) a completely different character.
Great show BTW, totally worth getting through the mostly dull season 1 and get to the good stuff, season 4 being wall-to-wall awesome.
Quite a prominent character, even if his career in the films ends in 2012. I've never watched Agents of Shield but I nevertheless feel a sense of loss on hearing of his television death.
Watching the movie again, anyone else kinda disappointed that Thanos' random sword was what broke Captain America's shield? I guess it's not as unbreakable as in the comics.
Are those marks on his neck from the snap?Been thinking about the gauntlet. Safe to say Thanos's gauntlet channel the stones properly, this was shown when it stops hurting him after he put the final stone at the end of IW.
Then the snap happen; the gauntlet is now toast with his injury being pretty minimal.
Something interesting to note, time stone doesn't seem to reverse the snap injury or the damage done to the gauntlet.
Few days later, he did the 2nd snap to destroy the stones except this time it was with a broken gauntlet causing the injury to be more severe.
And on his shoulder, yes, it seems that entire half is a bit charred. I thought it was clear the first snap was disfiguring.
Weird people are complaining about the Nat's death. That was well done I thought.
The all girl team up at the end was way too convenient. I liked the idea though, the execution was just hilarious and took me out the movie
The all girl team up at the end was way too convenient. I liked the idea though, the execution was just hilarious and took me out the movie