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Oct 26, 2017
12,578
UK
Hedin seems to be coasting a bit more this game than he did last game when he was town and his strong presence and stances made him my top town read.

But I don't know how much stock to put into that.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Back reading a bit (haha work lolsob) and one of things that really strikes me is that Hawthorn was a wagon before Faddy died, and then Faddy died and... you see where I am going?
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
NOW! The whole "maybe Faddy was protecting Hawthorn!" argument arose. So that's a consideration. But that became the push for Sneeks. Sneeks bought it. You can see it in her posts and it seems genuine. But MORE framed it as a hedging kill. An info kill. Sneeks does this too but she's emotional about it, again, in a way that seems genuine.

I should look at vote movement. But wondering why "but maybe someone was protecting Reki!" didn't arise in the same way.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,852
We had literally the BEST POSSIBLE THING yesterday: a vig who hit scum day 1 with time left in the day. That's ideal. And it didn't move the needle.

people just had reads either cemented or proven wrong and several just... kept on going.

that is, uh, the definition of agenda.
Ah. Yeah....People drew their conclusions first, then went backwards to find evidence to substantiate. I'm trying to stay positive, but I'm re-reading EoD yesterday and it's making my soul hurt.

I was going to answer you but just thinking about last night pisses me off

Forgot to mention this in the reads list but VA seems similar to his town self but I don't believe he's ever been scum.
I've yet to be scum. I'm under the assumption at this point that I never will be.

I believe the turm votes are mostly based on how he was trying to cover for Faddy.

Which, is awfully weak. I don't think scum!turm tries to save Faddy that much tbh.
I agreed with this sentiment when it was made Day 1, but after seeing Faddy's flip, I think scum would go out of their way to try and save Faddy. That's a damn fun power Faddy had. I'd hate to lose it Day1 before it could cause chaos.
 

Reki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,956
To the second point blarg didn't have a vote train on them. I did have my vote on blarg for a large part of day 1 till I moved it to launch. If blarg is town his play style is a hindrance to the rest of us (no offence blarg) a town hawthorn seems more valuable than a town blarg imo.

As for the first point I don't think I called out maol and hedin? I understood their votes at the time, it was only launch pushing a 3 vote train to a 4 vote and tie it up that raised my suspicions.

Sparks is like blarg to me, I can't read them and don't think they are helpful either way, but I favoured sparks over blarg because he was town and got launched d1 last game.

Not sure if this answers your questions or not.

Would like further clarification, seems like I worded stuff poorly. Apologies.

I wasn't asking so much about your thoughts on Blarg but rather about the recent Maol comment on him. Since you've spent some time criticizing the Hawthorn vote and discussing the real value of meta, I'd expect for you to comment on Mao going "wildcard" on Blarg.

On the other point, my mistake, you didn't call them out. You brought these up. But you didn't quote Sparks' vote nor did you comment on it when you were talking about the usefulness of Sparks' play for town.

You did say it was related to him being lunched D1 last game, though. So, do you see how that looks a bit weird when you and Pancakes have been downplaying the utility of past baggages to play?

Literally NAI in that we have no way of knowing if he was avoiding the thread or was just honestly not around.

The only thing curious about it is that you would assume avoidance, really. Why did you go to that?

While "avoid" does imply a conscious choice, the words I put before were there to highlight what you comment on your first sentence (except the NAI part).

But I'm slightly nervous about them using my meta on sparks to town lean him which I haven't really seen a reason for yet.

Thought that him not being bewildered by not being in contention and putting in some game-related comments - like the one wee really seemed to like that I can't find due to mobile - would indicate town according to your method?

May have read it all wrong, though.

MrHedin: Admittidly don't remember much of his posts but I didn't like how convinced he seemed about one of his scum reads and then how quickly he mellowed out when Reki commmented on it.

Can't recall this, could you point me to it?
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
I think I'm adding ATP to my town list but it's for a silly reason. I think it's a good one, but definitely silly.

can someone tldr me your version of the Launch/Kyan situation?
 

Aeleus

Member
Nov 29, 2018
3,111
I think I'm adding ATP to my town list but it's for a silly reason. I think it's a good one, but definitely silly.

can someone tldr me your version of the Launch/Kyan situation?
Launch says he knows Kyan is town for mechanical reasons.

So unless bastard or an extremely bold play Kyan is probably town (and that's good enough for D1)
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
I mean there's also Monkey hopping in and focusing on Faddy and only Faddy with the little time she was here. Don't think she would pop in and instantly start bussing a team mate. Wouldn't rule it out, but Monkey is pretty firmly town for me right now
Oh, I meant to say something about this because it's funny to me. But I'd read like... maybe 30-40 posts. Literally just random stuff. But one of the things I saw was Faddy pushing on things I KNEW were town in Ambulance because I mentored him twice. It was the only Faddy post I'd seen and I was like "that's lazy. SCUM."
And then I got called in to replace and the rest is history. It makes me laugh.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,633
You can have the cash I have. Deal.
😈

dunno why people want so desperately to town read Pancakes for outing herself as a vanilla. Now as her previous mentor, I am aware this is her 2nd social deduction game EVER in life, and I also know I trained her only in "the roles that actually got mentioned in her 1st game" + gave her a wiki link.

However I also watched HOW she took my orders advice, and I believe while her first post of "what if this is Volcano Island redux lol" COULD have been an accident, there's no possible way the followup posts of "lookie lookie y'all missed my vanilla claim" could be accidental. She has an agenda. I'm aware there's a possible variants of town agenda, but there's also plenty of scum agenda possible.

Apart from the claim, she is just hangin out. Commenting on mechanics more than ppl. There's no reason to have her needle much off null imo.
 

Kyanrute

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,629
Tomato
I am quite lost. I'll just wait for the NK and think then. I need a new starting point. Plenty of possible townies but where are the meanies?

tldr to mokeny: Launch drops that Pop-Tart in his 1st post and I say to myself "This better not be this shit again (in reference to Horror Movie Mafia where Salva greened me on D2 I think)". He later almost outright suggests that he got a green of some sort on me and go nuuuuuuu irl. Don't know how much the supposed check affected people not caring about me but people did not care that much about me D1. Chuggs and wee I think were at least some of the earlier believers in the idea that this all likely made me town and they behaved accordingly and tossed their yummies to me. I remember Maol paying attention to this matter as well but besides those folks I don't think people cared that much. Even when the Launch train happened, people just ignored Maol when he brought this up in response.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
wee, I think Pancakes is town because of her votes. Second game or not I don't see scum doing that. In fact I really don't see scum doing it second game. I don't care about her claim.
 

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,890
the wilderness
It was just me not wanting the "what if" question to linger indefinitely. There might have been a clear way to protect them, but it became evident very quickly that there would have been a lot of air taken up by the question of their alignments. We had just flipped scum, and even if it was risky, I wanted that flip cleared up while it would do the least amount of harm to town if they were both town. I also thought there was a reasonable chance one of them was scum in this format.

It also strengthened my town read of Launch and Kyan. And even Saw a bit because it'd be very risky for a hurting scum teammate to double down on a flip that would make them look extremely bad.
*shrugs* I've watched town lose their focus multiple times by letting scum talk them in circles by leaving those sort of question marks alone. I still think their flip produced the most information for town to work off of. I want to look at who interacted with them the most and see if there's anything there too.

Those folks pushed the hardest. If any of them are scum, they're extremely exposed now.

Even if I don't necessarily agree with it, I think this is reasonable explanation. The only nagging thing at the back of my mind is how while replying to Zipped on post #901 you voted Hawthorn – seemingly to apply pressure (?) – and stayed there all the way to the end. Never unvoted, never voted for anybody else... You comfortably stayed with a Hawthorn vote.

Out of Launch and Hawthorn, who are you planning on voting for today? And does this

Vote: Hawthorn

affect your decision?

My Scum Alert bell isn't ringing much right now... but it's still something I'm thinking about.

tenor.gif
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,578
UK
Would like further clarification, seems like I worded stuff poorly. Apologies.

I wasn't asking so much about your thoughts on Blarg but rather about the recent Maol comment on him. Since you've spent some time criticizing the Hawthorn vote and discussing the real value of meta, I'd expect for you to comment on Mao going "wildcard" on Blarg.

On the other point, my mistake, you didn't call them out. You brought these up. But you didn't quote Sparks' vote nor did you comment on it when you were talking about the usefulness of Sparks' play for town.

You did say it was related to him being lunched D1 last game, though. So, do you see how that looks a bit weird when you and Pancakes have been downplaying the utility of past baggages to play?



While "avoid" does imply a conscious choice, the words I put before were there to highlight what you comment on your first sentence (except the NAI part).



Thought that him not being bewildered by not being in contention and putting in some game-related comments - like the one wee really seemed to like that I can't find due to mobile - would indicate town according to your method?

May have read it all wrong, though.



Can't recall this, could you point me to it?

I'm not sure what maol said about blarg?

The meta thing is tough for me because I've played one game, and only a handful are in this game.

Like if I meta read pancakes, I was very suspicious of her last game but she was town. She is playing very similarly here so I'm still kind of suspicious of her because I find her conservative play style kind of suspicious but its ultimately not that helpful to read into that meta when my only example of that playstyle was town.

Similarly sparks is being obtuse and unhelpful as he was last game where he was town.

I didn't mention anything about sparks vote on hawthorn because it just seemed a random nonsensical Sparks vote at the time.

And when i bought up the concerns about the hawthorn vote there were several hours left and things could have gone a lot of ways. I was only interested in pointing out how sus launch's vote was, not really looking into the other votes that were already there.

If you want to read more into Sparks vote more it becomes more suspicious with his eod absence. He saw a town double kill was in the firing line and just stayed quiet to make it seem like he just wasn't around and his earlier vote was so early it could appear inconsequential.

I'm still not quite sure what you are asking but hopefully this answers your second question a bit better, you would have to quote maols post for a comment on that because I don't know which you mean.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,633
wee, I think Pancakes is town because of her votes. Second game or not I don't see scum doing that. In fact I really don't see scum doing it second game. I don't care about her claim.
Pssh if you're already doing vote analysis during *night 1* then.....carry on i guess.
i'ma go back to bed and pull the covers over my head soon. Zzzz
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,852
I know Blarg is gonna Blarg, but all the vote-unvoting happening EoD yesterday makes me comfortable with lunching them.

8705028.gif


Nin and Jman were pretty frustrated EoD yesterday, which makes it kind of funny/ironic to see that Nin self-voting and Jman unvoting from Reki is what finally tipped the back-and-forth of Hawthorn-Reki into a landslide against Hawthorn. Kind of a sow what you reap scenario... (Am I using that proverb correctly?)
 

Kyanrute

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,629
Tomato
I don't soft town read Pancakes because of the vanilla thing, I... Monkey stole my words. I don't agree with plenty of what Pancakes did D1 but I don't feel it was scummy. I'd expect meanies and especially new meanies to be more reserved than that. What was she playing at there, what was the scummy goal? I'd call her confused and I imagine I'd be partially right, but I also think that she was solving the game in her own manner there.
 

Aeleus

Member
Nov 29, 2018
3,111
Thought that him not being bewildered by not being in contention and putting in some game-related comments - like the one wee really seemed to like that I can't find due to mobile - would indicate town according to your method?

May have read it all wrong, though.
To be fair to you I'm not exactly known for my clear reasoning, I feel the stuff based on being not in contention only hooks him during the later stages of the game and while the post wee mentioned was clear I found it surface level stuff at best.
Can't recall this, could you point me to it?
vote tool isn't working for me so no, not at the moment.

Anything else? Any other details around that you think I should focus on? I'll give you a don buck at day start, Captain Pay-Me.
Are you asking about my scum read of Launchpad or just the kyan stuff? Because that's all there is to the kyan situation.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,852
yikes

so you definitely disagree with my town list.
I'm not very good at scum hunting. At all. The only time I shine is EoD based on how people are acting when pressure is on. When the pressure is off, my skills go poof. And yesterday was such a cluster because town did the most damage to themselves right at the end....All I could say with absolute certainty is that I knew Hawthorn and Nin were going to flip town.
 

Kyanrute

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,629
Tomato
I should look at vote movement. But wondering why "but maybe someone was protecting Reki!" didn't arise in the same way.

The Reki train did not exist when the "Faddy was protecting Hawthorn" idea came to be. The closest vote record I see is #1403 with a 5-4-3-2 going for Faddy, Hawthorn, Launch and Ambulance respectively. Ambulance was a poke train that barely existed and the Launch train was reactionary in nature and had questionable legs to it. The idea had the flip to support it, whereas the similar argument with the latter name changed to Reki had no such thing. And really, the alternatives to Hawthorn were weak in words and actions. Had people worked to consolidate the trains we would've had a competitive race, but no. I think the split was by design and it was done to ascertain that two townies were killed in retaliation to Faddy dying. Just look at Blarg and Reki not voting for one, that's two votes gone. Wouldn't want to threaten the double kill, would we?
 

Reki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,956
I'm not sure what maol said about blarg?

This;

And Blarg because he's a huge wildcard for town and I don't really want him to gambit his way into a loss for town.

I'm still not quite sure what you are asking but hopefully this answers your second question a bit better

It does, thank you.

I know Blarg is gonna Blarg, but all the vote-unvoting happening EoD yesterday makes me comfortable with lunching them.

So you agree with Maol here?

Trying to see if there's something bigger than I'm missing; since last night a weird Arsonist-by-bets theory has been floated around and Maol and you - maybe someone else? Can't recall - have voiced suspicion/the desire to get him out.

To be fair to you I'm not exactly known for my clear reasoning, I feel the stuff based on being not in contention only hooks him during the later stages of the game and while the post wee

I see, thanks for explaining.

How would you interpret Sparks not moving his vote for more than a thousand posts?

vote tool isn't working for me so no, not at the moment.

Thank you anyways, will try to search for it when close to a pc.
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,578
UK
This;





It does, thank you.



So you agree with Maol here?

Trying to see if there's something bigger than I'm missing; since last night a weird Arsonist-by-bets theory has been floated around and Maol and you - maybe someone else? Can't recall - have voiced suspicion/the desire to get him out.



I see, thanks for explaining.

How would you interpret Sparks not moving his vote for more than a thousand posts?



Thank you anyways, will try to search for it when close to a pc.

Yes I agree with maol to an extent, yesterday before I had any sort of scum read my vote was on blarg just to get rid of some of the noise.

I think if there are no clear launch candidates getting rid of someone who can serve to be a distraction to town and help scum hide isn't a bad idea.

Sparks would also fall into that category for me.

But its not something I'd advocate strongly for but no, I'm not against it in theory.

My feelings have nothing to do with the arsonist talk either.