Well seeing as how I have enjoyed this season as well as tonights episode I still care.
Out of all the valid criticisms of Game of Thrones, the narrative that "D&D don't give a fuck anymore because Disney money" is by far the most persistently untrue, and is quite frankly offensive to me and people in creative industries.
It completely neglects the collaborative nature of television production, the logistics of scheduling, and the struggles of limited money and time. But most importantly it ignores the fact that these two people are industry professionals, and like any professional, would put their best effort in to try to make whatever creative project they are working on a success, not just for the project itself but for their own sake and reputation.
I've worked as an actor on some bad projects. But I still put my all in because doing a good job matters. D&D wouldn't be in the position they are in today if they just half-assed their way through their work. They are doing the best they can.
They were offered more time by HBO and said noYou've got this wrong, I think. It's not that they didn't have time, it's that they chose not to use the time they had. If they followed the books more closely it should have been pretty obvious by like... season 6, but instead they chose to ignore it until the last 6 episodes. Whether that's because they wanted it to be a surprise or because they were afraid people would stop watching if they realized their favorite was slowly becoming a mass murderer is the real question.
its a toss of a coinThis is just lame writing. "Well she's a Targ, so she's a crazy bitch cuz bloodline". Does that mean Jon will also snap one day too?
If that's GRRM's endgame, thematically the story is just garbage. "Well you're a nut cause of your blood line".
This + they didn't want her to go on a murderous vision quest for the same reason Bronn showed up a few weeks agoBut in the show, they just glossed all over her Mereen story because "too many characters, viewers will be confused" and "gotta go fast" i guess
My point is that if they had more time they still would have still waited until the very end to start making Dany seem off.They were offered more time by HBO and said no
That poster had it right
Yeah like I said I can see their attempts to justify her turn. But I'm assuming Dany turning mad and burning Kings Landing is part of the ending GRRM told them years ago and they could have done a much better job of building her character to sell the idea that she'd massacre a city that has surrendered. I'd believe her doing anything to win. I'd believe her killing bad people or an army even if they surrender. But thousands of women and children after she's won? The show hasn't done the work with her character to make that feel fully authentic, and her being wary of a trap after the bells have rung is too loose of a justification to do much for me.
For me the difference is Dany was given 3 nukes compared to those characters, led to believe she is a dragon throughout her life and there was always more potential for her to get 'carried away' with them :)This is a show where everyone has done evil shit. The "cute heroine" (Arya) literally baked men into meat pies and served them to other people to eat, and she's a "hero". Jon Snow executed a child. Ned Stark beheaded a man for telling the truth even though he probably could've him a pardon. Sister-fucking attempted child-murderer Jamie had a redemption arc going.
In the grand scheme of the "world" GRRM has created, Dany's "conquest" from Essos to King's Landing is likely probably the most peaceful one with the least civilian casualties until she decides "fuck it, the last episodes needs a new villain now that Cersei is dead, time to go bat shit insane".
For me the difference is Dany was given 3 nukes compared to those characters, led to believe she is a dragon throughout her life and there was always more potential for her to get 'carried away' with them :)
Oh god, I'm thinking of their last encounter, forgot that the knighting scene is now soured for me too...
I originally had this thread ignored because despite my own major grievances with the show I don't really like engaging with the ResetEra GoT community, but I unblocked so I could, and it will say this; I liked the episode and I had fun.
Nothing will ever undo the disappointing character trajectories (namely Jamie) and the rushed narrative arcs. Nor the sloppy writing. But, and I said this a couple of episodes back, I long reconciled with these issues literally like...two or three seasons ago. And even with some of those disappointments still seeping through, I'm having plenty of fun enjoying the show for what it is.
Miguel Sapochnik is an absolutely outstanding director and every episode he touches is beautifully shot, paced, and cut in ways that almost if not no other director on the series has captured. But I'm also firmly in the park that Episode 3 was excellent too. Everything he has touched in Game of Thrones is just remarkably distinct and beautiful.
So yeah. That's how I feel. Enjoyed the shit out of it, goofy warts and all, and rushed arcs. I didn't consider it a straight up bad episode in the same way that Episode 4 was, because despite rushing to conclusion of character arcs that should have been paced across a few episodes even if they were telegraphed, I didn't feel the episode was rushed in its story. Not like Episode 4, which was a fucking mess.
Dany stans have been fucking cooked in the head for a long time now and even though her character arc has been disappointingly rushed in the endgame, I get some sick satisfaction seeing people pissed off at her being her. Narratively needed a lot more justification, but people putting their chips on a power hungry quasi tyrant who oozed entitlement from day one just because she's the soft chosen one who frees slaves are out of their fucking mind. The most basic, cliche lesson this entire series has beat across the head for a long, long, long time now including from GRRMs older work is that power corrupts, the throne is a bastard, entitlement is poison, and those truly lost to the allure of ruling will do whatever they feel they need to do, irrational or otherwise, to make it their claim. Dany has routinely demonstrated a lack of patience for insubordination, and an isolated delusion of entitlement and grandeur. There's a lot of good in her. She's also a tyrant, because monarchies, of which she is quite comfortable reinstalling, are inherently built on grotesque entitlement.
But yes. Really enjoyed the episode. Had a lot of fun. Will stop being a sook and keep this thread unblocked..
This is just lame writing. "Well she's a Targ, so she's a crazy bitch cuz bloodline". Does that mean Jon will also snap one day too?
If that's GRRM's endgame, thematically the story is just garbage. "Well you're a nut cause of your blood line".
I don't think it's untrue at all. Money talks, prestige talks, one can deny it all they want, but I see a lot more people are starting to question this too all over the internet now after all those "don't worry, they'll explain what Bran was doing during the Winterfell battle and it'll be a genius explanation, so it's not rushed at all" ... yeah ... nope.
Lets be honest D&D career wise have gotten all there was to get from GoT. And I don't fault them for wanting to do something else after 10 years. I take offence though that they didn't do right by the story and let someone else finish the show with a proper 9th season to give all the nuance the show needed to end properly.
winterfell is the shows shire. If it this is supposed to be that it misses the point entirely
Targaryen madness is very much a thing and has been talked about multiple times on the show
You think the actors wanted to stick around for another season too or this was all just D&D wanting to shut things down? This entire production has been going 10 years. Martin never finished the books so they have to write an ending knowing that everyone will be pissed at them even though they are doing the ending Martin told them. It's gotta be hard as duck to be the villains to a fan base that's convinced you're fucking up their favorite story when the author didn't finish his own work. I'd want to move on too but that doesn't mean people are phoning it in. Cmon. That's nonsense.
Yes I know that you think that :) I feel like it might happen in the books but because it's told from different POVs the scene might not come across as Dany just being a villian, this would definitely be an interesting POV for her.It's not that her turn can't work ... it's that how the SHOW protrays it is monumentally stupid.
The show's ending was butchered for Star Wars. Lets just be real.
Disney announced 3 Star Wars movies for 2022, 2024, and 2026.
These are likely D&D's Star Wars projects.
They had to bail out on GoT by 2018/early 2019 no way two ways around it.
Well, this isn't toxic at all. Maybe you should keep this thread blocked.
Except she didn't ooze any entitlement day one. She said in the first episode of season one "I don't want to be his queen. I want to go home."
Lol what a stupid episode.
What the fuck was the point of Jaimie as a character, at all?
He's supposed to be someone who at face value is a total piece of shit, and is so many times, but underneath is someone who secretly believes in his oaths and struggles to do good.
So he goes through his entire arc, and comes face to face with reality, that the White Walkers are the true threat. He sees Cersei is blind to this and leaves in spite of her, presumably moving on. He fights for the living, redeeming himself and finally giving in to the woman who shows him he's a good man, Brienne.
But fuck all that, he goes back to Kings Landing to get stabbed by Euron for reasons, and then die hugging the woman who threw him to the wind.
What a mess.
Also, why didn't Dany just go straight for Cersei? Why did she burns the entire city to ashes?
Also, when did dragon fire become so fucking powerful? Would have been nice if it was that effective against the Wights at Winterfell, who are also impervious to fire. Oh yeah, she was just flying around in the clouds for the majority of that episode.
The death of Rhaegal was completely pointless as Dany had the same outcome, she just marched in and blew the city to shreds. I don't have a problem with that, but it makes the death of the dragon so pointless. And it makes the previous few episodes point of "our armies are even now" moot.
There's just so much that is poorly written here.
Actually, Jaime's actions are not too far removed from something GRRM said once, that one of the topics he wanted to touch in his books was redemption, and whether or not true redemption was ever possible for everyone. Jaime going back to Cersei, if anything, shows that things are not just either good or evil, but there's a nuance to it. His whole arc proves that.
That being said, I doubt his death in the books will be the same, although it will almost definitely involve Cersei as well.
Actually, Jaime's actions are not too far removed from something GRRM said once, that one of the topics he wanted to touch in his books was redemption, and whether or not true redemption was ever possible for everyone. Jaime going back to Cersei, if anything, shows that things are not just either good or evil, but there's a nuance to it. His whole arc proves that.
That being said, I doubt his death in the books will be the same, although it will almost definitely involve Cersei as well.
It's much more watchable than Dexter lmao.I guess I should look into watching the show again huh ? I stopped at the end of season 1 . This looks like Dexter repeat to me with these reactions
It's a fact HBO offered D&D more time and episodes to finish the show, but they wanted to get it done quicker.Out of all the valid criticisms of Game of Thrones, the narrative that "D&D don't give a fuck anymore because Disney money" is by far the most persistently untrue, and is quite frankly offensive to me and people in creative industries.
It completely neglects the collaborative nature of television production, the logistics of scheduling, and the struggles of limited money and time. But most importantly it ignores the fact that these two people are industry professionals, and like any professional, would put their best effort in to try to make whatever creative project they are working on a success, not just for the project itself but for their own sake and reputation.
I've worked as an actor on some bad projects. But I still put my all in because doing a good job matters. D&D wouldn't be in the position they are in today if they just half-assed their way through their work. They are doing the best they can.
Many people didn't understand it.
I guess I should look into watching the show again huh ? I stopped at the end of season 1 . This looks like Dexter repeat to me with these reactions
I bet.....Euron is still fucking alive because the writers are shit and give him all the damn plot armor.
Plus Harry Strickland.....what was the point.
Wait that's a real thing?The whole thing that people didn't believe HBO wouldn't want more seasons was so incredibly stupid too. Yeah, TV network doesn't want their most successful show not just currently but in the history of the network to have an extra season ... yeah right.
It was always D&D and their explanation is hilariously lame too ... "we always felt it should be 73 hours, that's all". Why? What's so special about the number 73?
I'm half afraid the next episode starts with Jaime and Cersei waking up covered in dust coughing.
we know it's not because in the books she's already had experiences that convincingly lead her to believe that violence is the best wayThat's fine but it basically robs the characters of much depth and if that's really all there is to GRRM's story, then really its overrated. Nice twists but yeah whatever, it's not worth looking that deeply into.
God you know....I wouldn't doubt itI'm half afraid the next episode starts with Jaime and Cersei waking up covered in dust coughing. But not even D&D would do that.