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Halo |OT| She's Gone, Sir

Oct 25, 2017
2,358
Reach's movement felt fucking sluggish. Strafing felt borderline impossible in that game, far worse than Halo 3 in this regard. Obviously improved in many other ways though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,167
Would explain a great deal.
Also feels like it messed with jumping.
I think someone said base movement speed is actually just as fast as before?
1-3 have the same BMS. Reach's is slightly less, and it might have a slower strafe acceleration too.

Iirc the jump height was 3 feet lower than 3
 
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jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,907
I'm saying, if you want to use your BR effectively at range, you have to fight the recoil if you want all your shots to land. which gets pretty cumbersome, especially when people are crouch strafing. with the pistol, there's much less to think about.

i think even without vertical recoil, the BR would have a final headshot perk. thats the nature of burstfire, you get 3 chances to land a bullet. you can just swipe.

as far as projectile speeds the CE magnum was projectile. it was fast enough you could crossmap someone on hangem high if you knew how to lead, but wouldn't really need to lead at all up close. i think that experience should be the baseline. BR would have faster bullet speed. then DMR. then sniper.

i get having a personal preference for hitscan, but i don't think it works well with the complicated approach to balancing.
I don't think it's intended to be manageable. I think the intention is that it provides a hard cut off point where the BR stops being effective beyond which it can only really be used to descope.

Before that point managing the recoil only requires the player to aim lower down the further the other player is away, it's not dissimilar to leading shots to be honest. However, the amount you need to "lead" (ie: how low on the opposing players body you need to aim) is more easily communicated to the player.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,167
I don't think it's intended to be manageable. I think the intention is that it provides a hard cut off point where the BR stops being effective beyond which it can only really be used to descope.

Before that point managing the recoil only requires the player to aim lower down the further the other player is away, it's not dissimilar to leading shots to be honest. However, the amount you need to "lead" (ie: how low on the opposing players body you need to aim) is more easily communicated to the player.
I think You might be right about that. And if that's the case, I think that's unfortunate. I Think gun battles are much more interesting when players aren't arbitrarily limited on how effective they can be with a given weapon. Especially the utility weapon. Otherwise we're just playing situational rock, paper, scissors.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,142
Most of those maps aren’t designed with 4v4 in mind, even with vehicles. With and without vehicles they play too slow. In this case I’m referring to Ascension, High Ground, etc. and not Coagulation or Avalanche. Those maps shouldn’t even be in a 4v4 playlist.

Like I hate getting Relic in H2A because it’s 4v4 on a map that would play better with bigger teams. The same goes for a lot of the other maps you listed.
I disagree, atleast partially. Maps like High Ground, Standoff, Rats Nest, Terminal, and Valhalla do work in 4v4 settings.
 
Oct 25, 2017
737
Ehhhhh, I wouldn't describe Halo 3 like that. Takes what feels like an eternity to switch some weapons and being able to shoot. The equip time for the Sword for example feels insanely long, especially after the snappy animations of Halo 2.

Halo 5 feels a lot faster and fluid in this regard. I think Halo 3 is sluggish and more methodical in its design compared to later games. Halo 1 you felt like a juggernaut but had some lengthy animations, whereas you had quicker animations but felt overall weaker in Halo 2. Halo 3 was arguably the worst of all words between the first three games lol. This doesn't take into account button combos and animation cancels either, which especially make the first two games faster.
I'd say that none of them are particularly fast(barring the Halo 4 perk), but that's a good thing IMO. I had a match the other day on Longest where I was getting some odd spawns and getting shot immediately when I spawned in. At first I was trying to switch weapons and kept getting murdered until I just started spraying AR immediately.

I disagree, atleast partially. Maps like High Ground, Standoff, Rats Nest, Terminal, and Valhalla do work in 4v4 settings.
I'd only say High Ground fits in that group really well. Most of the Halo 3 BTB maps that are also 4v4 have an issue where they designed specialized areas for infantry and others for vehicles. Rat's Nest is the closest, but you can still quite easily get moments where the player doesn't see combat for about a minute because of the where they spawn and how the combat flows around the map.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,142
I'd only say High Ground fits in that group really well. Most of the Halo 3 BTB maps that are also 4v4 have an issue where they designed specialized areas for infantry and others for vehicles. Rat's Nest is the closest, but you can still quite easily get moments where the player doesn't see combat for about a minute because of the where they spawn and how the combat flows around the map.
I have to disagree, combat flows fine, Halo 5 also has the opposite problem where as soon as you spawn you are either getting shot at instantly or you have very little breathing room which makes the game unbearably sweaty at times. Let alone the amount of rooms where you can get shot at from 8 different directions in Halo 5.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,602
Denver, CO
perhaps this is ignorant, but is this very different than "classic halo"?
i dont know, i never encountered that much of an emphasis when playing regular team slayer in past halos. if its always been a thing then i never seen it till h5.

i remember people timing when power ups would spawn when h2 had tournies but that's all i payed attention to. I just loved team slayer because i felt like i could carry the team if needed.
 

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,907
H5 was bad when the teams you played against knew how to control the spawns and ultimately had you spawn where they wanted you.
That's definitely part of the older halos as well.

Especially CE. Playing doubles against a good team in CE is painful. They can force you to spawn in literally the exact same spawn point over and over again.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,167
perhaps this is ignorant, but is this very different than "classic halo"?
Yeah, Spawn traps have always been a thing.

The only difference is in "classic halo" the weapon you spawned with could contest anything the opposing team could throw at you. Also no grenade hitmarkers.

H5 spawn traps were nearly impossible to fight out of at first. Remember all the lopsided slayer victories in pro league. Things got better (in this regard) after rethinking weapon layouts then again when the weapon tuning nerfed everything.

CE doubles has pretty brutal spawn traps at high level play. Slayer matches tend to be pretty streaky - with Teams alternating Between trapping and being trapped. The only real saving grace is it takes just 0.6s of perfect shooting to break a trap, and there are no grenade hitmarkers to clue you in on how weak trapped opponents are.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,167
Ah yes, the incredible H3 AR/Pistol.

I've contested my way out of many a spawn trap with those guns.
Lol, point taken. I'm sorry, I consider that Playlist "absolute garbage", not classic halo.

Now that you mention it, Vanilla H2 and AR start in H3 were also spawn trap city, just like H5 was at the start... For the exact same reasons- you had weak ass spawn weapons, while the other guys kept replenishing their upgrades. It was absolutely terribl- worse in 2 and 3 than in 5. All 3 of these games addressed the issue with updates.

"Advanced mobility vs classic" really has nothing to do with it.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,693
Is there any legit way to play Halo on PC aside from Halo 1 and 2 ports? Either SP or MP, I love both.

Also, does anyone know if this is worth looking into? https://installation01.org
  • Halo 5: Forge (Custom Games Arena MP and Forge only)
  • Halo Wars 1 & 2
  • Spartan Strike & Assault
  • Halo: CE with the SPV3 Mod
Other than that, there is Halo Online (ElDewrito) and Xenia Emulation, which both don't fit your "legit" requirement.

As far as Installation 01 goes... Waiting until they are making it available to the public. Looks okay.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,916
  • Halo 5: Forge (Custom Games Arena MP and Forge only)
  • Halo Wars 1 & 2
  • Spartan Strike & Assault
  • Halo: CE with the SPV3 Mod
Other than that, there is Halo Online (ElDewrito) and Xenia Emulation, which both don't fit your "legit" requirement.

As far as Installation 01 goes... Waiting until they are making it available to the public. Looks okay.
Looks like more than enough to satisfy my Halo cravings. Especially interested in that CE mod.

How is the population for Forge MP?

Thanks a lot.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,693
Any particular reason? Like, do you think it's worth trying?
I have made my peace with Halo 5, so definitely not worth it for me anymore.

That shouldn't keep others from playing, though. If you think you'll enjoy it, and there is a population, then you should give it a try.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,693
I like to go to HaloRuns from time to time and look at the Record Graphs for the Full Game and Individual Levels. It's quite fascinating to see the progress that has been made. Look at Halo 5 (for example): https://haloruns.com/records?chart=0800

lol
Not as weird as that one Halo 3 trick where one "rides" Drones to move few seconds faster though.
Melee cancelling leads to weird speedruns like this:



That's the most recent WR, which was done 4 days ago.

I remember the speedrunner community actually being mad about it, because it was "2 minutes of boring button mashing", which they would be forced to do, in order to keep up with others. Not sure if they still have an issue with it, since it's been optimized and they managed to scrape off a whole minute off of it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,065
I like to go to HaloRuns from time to time and look at the Record Graphs for the Full Game and Individual Levels. It's quite fascinating to see the progress that has been made. Look at Halo 5 (for example): https://haloruns.com/records?chart=0800



Melee cancelling leads to weird speedruns like this:



That's the most recent WR, which was done 4 days ago.

I remember the speedrunner community actually being mad about it, because it was "2 minutes of boring button mashing", which they would be forced to do, in order to keep up with others. Not sure if they still have an issue with it, since it's been optimized and they managed to scrape off a whole minute off of it.
Kind of interesting that despite the varying nature of the Halo campaigns in length and number of missions the records for all the games all settle in for Easy to Legendary between one hour and change and 1:30.
 
Oct 25, 2017
737
I got an Xbox One X and I'm loaning my old Xbox One to my friend who I used to play a bunch of split screen with. My question since he doesn't have Xbox Live Gold is if I keep the old console as the home console will he be able to play games on there?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,693
Kind of interesting that despite the varying nature of the Halo campaigns in length and number of missions the records for all the games all settle in for Easy to Legendary between one hour and change and 1:30.
Yeah, it's actually pretty impressive. All these people still finding new tricks or optimizing old ones are just crazy to me.

I still question how several of these tricks have been found, especially the ones were you manipulate the AI, by just standing in a specific spot. That's just mindblowing.

I got an Xbox One X and I'm loaning my old Xbox One to my friend who I used to play a bunch of split screen with. My question since he doesn't have Xbox Live Gold is if I keep the old console as the home console will he be able to play games on there?
He will have access to console wide XBL Gold and all the games that you own on that account. The only downside, that I can think of, is you not being able to play your games offline anymore on your new non-Home console.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,065
Yeah, it's actually pretty impressive. All these people still finding new tricks or optimizing old ones are just crazy to me.

I still question how several of these tricks have been found, especially the ones were you manipulate the AI, by just standing in a specific spot. That's just mindblowing.



He will have access to console wide XBL Gold and all the games that you own on that account. The only downside, that I can think of, is you not being able to play your games offline anymore on your new non-Home console.
Bad Cyborg is still finding out how to mess with the AI in CE this many years later (and he's in fact responsible for figuring out how to get the Banshee off the bridge in AOTCR so he saved a bunch of speedrunners time there.)

http://www.badcyborg.net
 
Oct 26, 2017
37
Re: Reach, whenever I try to go back to that game at this point the motion blur feels impossibly overbearing. I don't know how I didn't really notice it when originally playing cause it gives me headaches now.

Personally I didn't mind the changes reach made to the *gravity* of your jumping, but the height for sure seemed really limiting and led to far more reliance on stairs and ramps exclusively than more freeform paths.
 
Oct 29, 2017
572
If I hated Halo 4 and didn’t love Halo 5, is there any chance I’ll like Infinite? I’ve been playing Halo again recently and just want good Halo again but I don’t know if 343 is making a game I would like. Obviously there’s very few details but I just wonder what kind of game they’re making.
 

mlappy

Banned
Member
Aug 15, 2018
390
Kanada
If I hated Halo 4 and didn’t love Halo 5, is there any chance I’ll like Infinite? I’ve been playing Halo again recently and just want good Halo again but I don’t know if 343 is making a game I would like. Obviously there’s very few details but I just wonder what kind of game they’re making.
At this point, no one knows.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,167
If I hated Halo 4 and didn’t love Halo 5, is there any chance I’ll like Infinite? I’ve been playing Halo again recently and just want good Halo again but I don’t know if 343 is making a game I would like. Obviously there’s very few details but I just wonder what kind of game they’re making.
There's no telling. It's clear that Infinite is taking a lot of inspirations from the original titles, but it's unclear how far that extends into the gameplay.

Personally, my hope is that they find a way to make Spartans feel agile and powerful, without bogging the game down with frivolous mandatory animations and inputs that end up negatively impacting the flow of combat and map design.

We'll see.