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Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
OP is getting criticized for doling out a desperation dressing-down, you think that he wouldn't get judged even harder for ghosting his friend?

And we've had these threads where Era vents about how horrible and painful it is to be ghosted so you know that shit is true.

Ghosting someone because you don't feel that you can help them isn't great either. But it really doesn't fall on OP to fix his friend or anyone if he doesn't feel up to it. Taking care of yourself and your own mental health should always come first, and if you have to put some distance between you and someone else, then that's what you have to do. This tough love approach that was used here is a lot more detrimental because its actively tearing him down and telling him what a terrible person he is and how much he's hurting you and putting a drain on your life. This actually is projecting a little bit, but when I was at my lowest, the feelings that I was hurting others or being a burden was the number one feeling that pushed me to the brink. And having that shoved in my face by someone that I would consider a friend would have absolutely sent me over the edge.

That's what I mean by its possible to do more harm than good when you respond to someone, and its important to really think about the way that our words will impact people who are reaching out.

OP you are a good friend. No one needs some weak enabler when they are fucking up.

There are ways to be supportive and help someone that doesn't involve doing what OP did. It doesn't make you an enabler to not rant at someone for 40 minutes about all of their failures.
 

Deleted member 47160

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 27, 2018
49
I have friends that aren't "successful", they still live at home and aren't sure what they are going to do with their lives. I give them my perspective and listen to them. I'm not a psychologist or a therapist. It's not my job to solve their problems or get into deep psychological matters. The way your lecture was worded probably will make him feel even worse about himself. Good job. Dude already has a history of attempted suicide. Maybe take that into account next time.
 

TheIdiot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,729
Just bewildered at how many people think what OP did was the good thing. If cutting your losses, is what is desired, I guess it is.

Tough love.... lol

Wrong way to handle this imo OP.

Same here, 50 posts in and I had to jump to the last page to see if someone would say this. I thought "toxic masculinity" was frowned upon here. "Quit being a pussy" to someone who is depressed is bad advice. A 40 minute rant, that ends with a grown man in tears is not being a good friend. In fact it sounds like a selfish desire, for OPs friend to spend more time with him and less with his GF, is what sparked the rant. Not an attempt to help his friend.
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,063
There are ways to be supportive and help someone that doesn't involve doing what OP did. It doesn't make you an enabler to not rant at someone for 40 minutes about all of their failures.
Fair point. Always a better way to do things. Personally I'd rather someone be straight up with me no matter how brutal but I can see why others would react differently.
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,876
i agreed with the op's actions at the start of the thread and now i have doubts and feel a pit in my stomach about what kind of person that makes me

um

I'm sure we can all relate, to an extent.

We've all known people that we care about that make seemingly bad or self destructive decisions. Sometimes you want to get through to them and help them. Other times they frustrate you and you might lose your patience and feel like lashing out.

But, there are some signs here in the way the OP phrased things that are certainly cause for concern.

- His friend is only 29, so the idea that he's "wasted his life" is premature
- A phrase like "stop being such a pussy" is... yeah... don't even need to explain
- The whole concept of "success" or "failure" in life is super judgemental.
- Giving super specific advice like "break up with your girlfriend and be single for a while" is also very judgemental

Sounds like the OP has good intentions and his friend needs help, but if I was in this position I would get in touch with my friend, apologize, and say you really only want to help the friend and you're sorry for venting your own frustrations.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
Same here, 50 posts in and I had to jump to the last page to see if someone would say this. I thought "toxic masculinity" was frowned upon here. "Quit being a pussy" to someone who is depressed is bad advice. A 40 minute rant, that ends with a grown man in tears is not being a good friend. In fact it sounds like a selfish desire, for OPs friend to spend more time with him and less with his GF, is what sparked the rant. Not an attempt to help his friend.
Literally no one is in here is patting the OP on the back for using that phrase. We can agree that he went overboard, I just don't see the issue with the general sentiment of finally giving the friend the hard truth.

Whereas the other half seems to be ignoring the entire lead up to the OP snapping and jumping on him for "40 minutes" and "pussy".

I believe he owes that friend an apology and should really check on him and make sure he's okay.

This is like easily the best post in this entire thread.
Phrasing wasn't the best, but it does sound like he needed a dose of the realness. You should still probably check up on him and make sure he's doing okay.

And this is just a pointless guilt trip. And reaffirms that everyone just cares about "40 minutes" and "pussy".

Dude already attempted suicide in the past and you go at him for 40 minutes about how big of a loser he is and tell him that he's a pussy. I'm sure he feels much better now.

Some friend you are.
 

Ferdie

Member
Jul 16, 2018
1,363
Dude already attempted suicide in the past and you go at him for 40 minutes about how big of a loser he is and tell him that he's a pussy. I'm sure he feels much better now.

Some friend you are.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
Not a good look OP.
OP knows the situation better than any of us. Some people are basically worthless until they're firmly told that their being worthless isn't going to be tolerated anymore, and for everyone to pretend like that's not a personality archetype that exists is to be extremely naive. My point is that no one here has the right to judge OP with such venom when we don't know his friend's constitution, don't know his behavior patterns or personality, and don't know his history.

It's obvious that OP was releasing years of frustration because he's concerned about his friend. That kind of diatribe doesn't come from someone who doesn't care.
Define worthless?
 

TheIdiot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,729
Literally no one is in here is patting the OP on the back for using that phrase. We can agree that he went overboard, I just don't see the issue with the general sentiment of finally giving the friend the hard truth.

Whereas the other half seems to be ignoring the entire lead up to the OP snapping and jumping on him for "40 minutes" and "pussy".

I believe he owes that friend an apology and should really check on him and make sure he's okay.

Penting up emotions and letting them out like this is basically the definition of toxic masculinity though. Outside of that phrase you don't even have to read between the lines in the OP to realize that what he did was fucking dumb. These things can be calmly discussed overtime. The rant was clearly motivated by selfishness.
 

FUME5

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,421
So, rather than confront your friends on their bullshit in an attempt to help them see that they're the source of the majority of their problems, a lot of you would avoid that difficult conversation, resulting in said continuing to be a fuck-up who blames all their problems on outside factors.

That's not being a good friend.
 

Deleted member 47160

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 27, 2018
49
Literally no one is in here is patting the OP on the back for using that phrase. We can agree that he went overboard, I just don't see the issue with the general sentiment of finally giving the friend the hard truth.

Whereas the other half seems to be ignoring the entire lead up to the OP snapping and jumping on him for "40 minutes" and "pussy".

I believe he owes that friend an apology and should really check on him and make sure he's okay.

This is like easily the best post in this entire thread.
I guess the lesson to learn here is to be truthful with your friends throughout your relationships so you don't dump 10+ years on them in 40 minutes.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
I mean guys literally the framing of this is that the OP was surprised his friend cried...

Doesn't that hint that this wasn't exactly a well considered course of action.

So, rather than confront your friends on their bullshit in an attempt to help them see that they're the source of the majority of their problems, a lot of you would avoid that difficult conversation, resulting in said continuing to be a fuck-up who blames all their problems on outside factors.

That's not being a good friend.

Neither is tearing them down for 40 minutes straight, with such helpful advice like stop being a pussy and then being surprised he cried
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
Penting up emotions and letting them out like this is basically the definition of toxic masculinity though. Outside of that phrase you don't even have to read between the lines in the OP to realize that what he did was fucking dumb. These things can be calmly discussed overtime. The rant was clearly motivated by selfishness.
I guess the lesson to learn here is to be truthful with your friends throughout your relationships so you don't dump 10+ years on them in 40 minutes.
Or, maybe there's a middle ground where this shit is discussed like adults from time to time.



Read the thread people.

There's nothing wrong with sharing one's feelings. I complain and bitch all the time.

It's a totally different thing tho when you complain but do absolutely nothing to fix the situation. When people give you advice and you consistently ignore it and you just wanna use their time to bitch but do nothing to improve your life. That's what frustrates people, not just listening to a friend's issues.
Well, we've had this conversation many times before, throughout our twenties, but the conversations have becoming more and more bitter or sharp as we've entered our late twenties. He's never had this reaction before, he'd either laugh it off or agree but not do any follow up. This is the first time he's had that reaction, but it's the first time I got super-pissed
 

TheIdiot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,729
So, rather than confront your friends on their bullshit in an attempt to help them see that they're the source of the majority of their problems, a lot of you would avoid that difficult conversation, resulting in said continuing to be a fuck-up who blames all their problems on outside factors.

That's not being a good friend.

Or, maybe there's a middle ground where this shit is discussed like adults from time to time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
I mean guys literally the framing of this is that the OP was surprised his friend cried...

Doesn't that hint that this wasn't exactly a well considered course of action.



Neither is tearing them down for 40 minutes straight, with such helpful advice like stop being a pussy and then being surprised he cried
No seriously "40 minutes" and "pussy" needs to be drinking game at this point.
 

KomandaHeck

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,357
You threw in his face how his existence is a detriment to the lives of people around him?

Fucking bang up job, OP!
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
Literally no one is in here is patting the OP on the back for using that phrase. We can agree that he went overboard, I just don't see the issue with the general sentiment of finally giving the friend the hard truth.

Whereas the other half seems to be ignoring the entire lead up to the OP snapping and jumping on him for "40 minutes" and "pussy".

I believe he owes that friend an apology and should really check on him and make sure he's okay.

This is like easily the best post in this entire thread.


And this is just a pointless guilt trip. And reaffirms that everyone just cares about "40 minutes" and "pussy".

I feel like you're intentionally ignoring my posts to not understand why people have issues with the length of time and why there are issues with what the OP said. Like, I do understand that a lot of people are zeroing in on those things specifically, but a lot of it is for good reason. I get that he was at his breaking point, and it is understandable for him to snap and say that kind of stuff, but its still extremely harmful.
 

SonicXtreme

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,713
Sometimes tough love is needed. Just make sure to check on him. Only a real friend will stay for that long.
I feel like trickling out this 'burst of tough love' over like, idk, the entire past course of this friendship, would have been more appropriate, versus this bottling up of emotions then bursting on your homie? sounds like a traumatizing experience for dudes friend, not cool imo
 

FUME5

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,421
I mean guys literally the framing of this is that the OP was surprised his friend cried...

Doesn't that hint that this wasn't exactly a well considered course of action.



Neither is tearing them down for 40 minutes straight, with such helpful advice like stop being a pussy and then being surprised he cried

"Tough love" is not inherently toxic or wrong, sometimes it's the slap in the face a person needs to re-assess themselves. The fact that the man cried is not evidence of some deep psychological wound, could be the release of a lot of pent up shit he's been hiding from himself.

Anyway, from experience it is damn hard to know the right way to help people who are willfully blind to their flaws.

Or, maybe there's a middle ground where this shit is discussed like adults from time to time.

Mate, very few people are good at articulating their weaknesses / needs to friends, and it sounds like this is something that has been 'discussed' many times in the past.
 

ObbyDent

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,910
Los Angeles
OP I hope you apologize to your "friend" and tell him that even though you're sorry for being a dumb fucking idiot, that he does need to get his shit together or his situation won't change.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
"Tough love" is not inherently toxic or wrong, sometimes it's the slap in the face a person needs to re-assess themselves. The fact that the man cried is not evidence of some deep psychological wound, could be the release of a lot of pent up shit he's been hiding from himself.

Anyway, from experience it is damn hard to know the right way to help people who are willfully blind to their flaws.



Mate, very few people are good at articulating their weaknesses / needs to friends, and it sounds like this is something that has been 'discussed' many times in the past.

Again though we have examples of what was said and they are in that macho bullshit category
 

Karasseram

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,358
Tearing down someone you know is depressed and has suicidal tendencies for 40 minutes then being surprised he breaks down. Empathy is not your strong suit is it?
 

Xita

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
9,185
Literally no one is in here is patting the OP on the back for using that phrase.

Several people in this thread are patting OP on the back and saying he did nothing wrong, are you just ignoring those or what

Might be the best thing he ever heard. Short, sharp shock. Reality check.

I think you might have done him a favour, OP.

I think you did the right thing OP

Sometimes people need some tough love.

Sometimes that's what a good friend needs to do

And this is just on the first page dude
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
I feel like you're intentionally ignoring my posts to not understand why people have issues with the length of time and why there are issues with what the OP said. Like, I do understand that a lot of people are zeroing in on those things specifically, but a lot of it is for good reason. I get that he was at his breaking point, and it is understandable for him to snap and say that kind of stuff, but its still extremely harmful.
Did I say it wasn't? Yes, the OP when overboard. I agree with the intention and I'm also pointing out the flawed execution without insulting the OP.
 

Deleted member 23850

Oct 28, 2017
8,689
I don't need people to tear myself down, I do it myself, harshly.
 

chrisPjelly

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
10,496
People respond differently to different actions. If it seemed like you've exhausted your options to encourage him or put him back on his feet, you're right in being aggressive. Sometimes hugs and hollow optimism just enable bullshit, I'm sorry guys. Although, 40 minutes is still kinda harsh, and I would still apologize to your friend to at least let him know that you're STILL friends. However, you should do so while reiterating you meant every word you said, and you're only frustrated because you care for him.
 

Deleted member 835

User requested account deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,660
End of the day, you support a friend. If shit gets too toxic you have a word (not rip their life apart), or you take a step back. Part if being a friend is putting up with faults and OPs "friend" sounds like a dude stuck in a rutt with a history of suicide. You don't show a dude like that tough love. You support them, even if it is very little

Part of the problem is people see others lifes as failures etc as it doesn't match their own. Not every one is born the same and not everyone will be successful at work or even able to work and many other things. Too many people like to judge others, instead of accepting the person they are
 

GuessMyUserName

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,178
Toronto
OP helping only himself here. As someone who keeps quiet about their own personal depression, not mentioning a peep about myself out of fear of being a burden to anybody or taking their focus... this would all be a nightmare scenario to find out I was right about myself. Given the history of attempted suicide in the first page, yeah I'd be in a dark dark place for many months to follow this all.

Like really, 40 minutes on how terrible I am? Jesus. I get a scolding for someone overbearing and filling you with negativity... but that can be communicated without breaking someone down to pieces.
 

FUME5

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,421
Again though we have examples of what was said and they are in that macho bullshit category

Yeah, well, it's not easy knowing exactly what to say to help someone. And yes, no doubt I've hurt more people via my good intentions than people I've hurt intentionally.

Hell, maybe the dude needed a good cry and this allowed him to do that. Maybe not.
 

Witness000

Member
Oct 28, 2017
196
Toronto
I'm down with what you said OP. You probably got caught up in the moment and used some language that you wouldn't have, or maybe you knew what words to use to trigger your friend too. He's your friend, not ours, so I can only assume you had his best interests in mind. Especially since you've said this was a buildup of earlier failed conversations.
 

neon_dream

Member
Dec 18, 2017
3,644
"For 40 minutes I told my friend why he's a fucking loser and how he's fucked everything up for the last 15 years of his life. Then he cried."

Gee, I wonder why.

"Sidenote: his girlfriend sucks and I hate her."

Uh huh.
 

Ferulci

Member
Oct 31, 2017
210
Well, we've had this conversation many times before, throughout our twenties, but the conversations have becoming more and more bitter or sharp as we've entered our late twenties. He's never had this reaction before, he'd either laugh it off or agree but not do any follow up. This is the first time he's had that reaction, but it's the first time I got super-pissed

I feel like lots of posters are missing that one. It's a been a topic of their friendship for a decade.
It's one of those cases where "shame if you do, shame if you dont". You're judged because you told him the hard truth, would've been judged for "cuddling him"if you did not talk.
Sure, you could've handled better, but which disputes aren't like that ?
Now you have to be there for him when he wants to get better.
 

Quixzlizx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,591
His fear of failure could be the result of some trauma or belief he's had conditioned in his life. Many people carry these types of beliefs incognito. His fear of rejection probably comes from a belief of rejection, and then identifying around it. Ranting at him won't help; he'll be where he is in another three months with no change even if you feel you "made a mark" with what you did. A better solution would be to seriously, deeply investigate the feelings of rejection and more importantly - and frequently overlooked - is to examine where those feelings spawned in his life. His fear of trying says he's either had an experience or has had a profound belief of being seriously burned. The best help is to truly examine that.

In fact, next time you talk to him, ask him to map out how familiar that feeling of failure is in his life, and if possible, ask him when was the first time he felt it so strongly. If it's catered to an experience, it's probably that experience and that one alone that started the belief, and thus the continuous problem of "seeing is believing" that's left him in a rut for so long. This was my issue for 15 years as well, though I can assure you that I'm not the friend you talked to, OP. I figured my issues out with self-inquiry, even if I haven't deconditioned them all yet. Mine was a serious identification of being a "less-than" due to a traumatic middle school experience, and one would be shocked how something so long ago, so unrelated to where and what one is right now, can help shape and morph their own lens of perception.
That sounds like a job for a licensed therapist, not the OP.
 
OP
OP
NTGYK

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
So a few things:

  • I was at work which is why I didn't come back for some replies
  • I've been trying to get him to go to a therapist since he was 20. Not just for these issues, but for other issues that he has that I haven't posted here that stem from certain behaviors in his life.
  • He's had a history of terrible and shitty romantic relationships with really bad codependency that me and other friends have tried to get him out of and he refuses because he'd rather be in a bad relationship but with someone than be single and alone. When he started dating this current girl, I saw all the red flags and warned him and told him not to pursue it. That was EIGHT MONTHS AGO. And now he bitches and complains about her and I keep telling him to dump her and he won't. The fuck should I do?
  • I did text and check up on him today but he didn't reply since I assume he's at work.
  • Some of you guys calling me a bad friend: I've helped this guy for 15 years because he's my friend and I love him. I've encouraged him through school and helped him with resumes, trying to help him be less shy, defended him against other people, etc. I've skipped dates with my girlfriend when he was feeling lonely and wanted to hang. I've done my best to set him up and help him with women when he asked for that help, I've done my very best for 15 years. I know he needs therapy but I can't take him to therapy at gunpoint, can I?
  • Yeah, I told him to stop being a pussy and I also said he was a dick to his ex girlfriend and to another friend of his that no longer hangs out with him. We still talk to each other like we're in high school. It's not right, but that's how we talk to each other. He's called me an asshole and pussy too, I don't take it personal and as far as I know, he doesn't either. He admitted it to himself yesterday as well.
  • I tried to build him back up yesterday and told him that I was pissed but that I wanted him to have standards for himself and to stop coasting if he hates the way his life is. If he's happy coasting, then stop complaining. If you're not happy coasting, do something about it
  • Man, some of you guys. I hate ghosting, I'm not gonna ghost him.
  • I heard about the suicide attempt from someone in high school. It was from before we were friends and he's never brought it up and I've never asked. He's never exhibited suicidal behavior to me, and I think I'd recognize it since my sister has depression and I think I would be able to pick up on depression in someone I'm close to.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
OP helping only himself here. As someone who keeps quiet about their own personal depression, not mentioning a peep about myself out of fear of being a burden to anybody or taking their focus... this would all be a nightmare scenario to find out I was right about myself. Given the history of attempted suicide in the first page, yeah I'd be in a dark dark place for many months to follow this all.

Like really, 40 minutes on how terrible I am? Jesus. I get a scolding for someone overbearing and filling you with negativity... but that can be communicated without breaking someone down to pieces.
I see where you're coming from, but surely you see the difference between yourself and the OPs friend based on the way he's described.

It's not like one vent and then people suddenly snap on you.
 

Barrel Cannon

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,303
NTGYK don't stress it man. Sometimes a little tough love is what a person really needs. I accidentally made a coworker friend cry at work once due to some harsh advice on her life. She broke down crying and ran to the washroom. In the moment I felt so bad, because I was trying to be straight with her and her situation in life. Later on though I brought it up another day apologizing for being so harsh and she told me not to apologize and that she was thankful for the advice. And roll forward a year later now IMO she's since elevated herself and her life a ton. She's cut out a lot of baggage in her life and become a lot more independent and confident with her decisions. I'm really happy I had the guts to give her that advice because I felt I played a part in pushing her to be the better person she deserves to be.
 
OP
OP
NTGYK

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
What exactly was the intent of this thread? You had to have known people were going to take umbrage with your approach

I was still frustrated and needed to vent but I didn't wanna bring it up with anyone in our mutual social circle. Pretty much everyone else has had it and they've told me to cut him out of my life because that's what they did. I think I'm the last close friend he has beyond the guy who took his last girlfriend and a couple other dudes I've never met.