• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Hmm, well, if you've got some specific examples, I'd love to see 'em, but it's certainly new to me.



Agreed.
Check out the TFA Plinkett review. He's got an entire section on "The Diversity Awakens".. complains about it then says that "kids don't care about diversity" and that it's just a corporate ploy.

I don't have the time stamp but I can find it later on.
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
Its just fucking dumb to criticize these works as corporate wokeness plays when they are works made by people under represented groups trying to serve under represented interests.

Its a fucking marvel film. No shit its about money at the end of the day. Can shit be about money but also have a good message? Is that like somethung we need to call out over and over? No one is nominating Disney for woke award of the year. If you aren't applying that criticism to every film that is failing in diversity your just a hypocrit.

Its literally nothing but a criticism that assumes everyone is too fucking stupid to connect the dots. Again, mad surface level examination, if you consider yourself a critic, do better than this
God damn you're on fire in this thread. Definitely gonna be looking out for your posts in the future. Thanks for being an ally.
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,951
Check out the TFA Plinkett review. He's got an entire section on "The Diversity Awakens".. complains about it then says that "kids don't care about diversity" and that it's just a corporate ploy.

I don't have the time stamp but I can find it later on.
Also see the Ghostbusters stuff where they claimed that the "controversy" surrounding the movie, which included Leslie Jones getting temporarily harassed off of Twitter, was just something played up by Sony Pictures to advertise the movies.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,505
What is inflammatory about "I dont care about this white guys opinions on films made for minorities"? Like what is the actual arrogant or inflammatory part of the statement or general thought process?

I don't grasp this. Is every opinion literally held to equal weight always?
 

EightBitNate

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,644
What is inflammatory about "I dont care about this white guys opinions on films made for minorities"? Like what is the actual arrogant or inflammatory part of the statement or general thought process?

I don't grasp this. Is every opinion literally held to equal weight always?

I'd respond properly, but I don't care about your opinion.



See how arrogant that sounds?
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
So are we really gonna say that being cynical means it's alright for you to mock the idea of a little girl admiring a woman as a hero?

Because I don't call that cynical. I call that being a douche.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,579
What is inflammatory about "I dont care about this white guys opinions on films made for minorities"? Like what is the actual arrogant or inflammatory part of the statement or general thought process?

I don't grasp this. Is every opinion literally held to equal weight always?

How dare they tell us white males to shut up?!
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,632
Sorry, there's a lot going on in this thread, but can anyone explain to me what exactly was wrong with the charity viewings the film had for little girls. It just kind of reads like the arguments about people buying chocolate with EBT from years ago.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
What is inflammatory about "I dont care about this white guys opinions on films made for minorities"? Like what is the actual arrogant or inflammatory part of the statement or general thought process?

I don't grasp this. Is every opinion literally held to equal weight always?

White men are conditioned from birth to believe that their opinion on every subject is always relevant and necessary regardless of context or whether anyone cares about it. This is why they become deeply offended when someone tells them they're not interested in hearing their opinion or that they're uninformed.

I'm not interested in reviews of this movie, or really any movie, from white dudes at this point. I've read numerous reviews of Captain Marvel from women, some positive and some negative, but all coming from a different perspective that is far more interesting. Saying you don't care to hear someone's opinion doesn't mean they're not allowed to have it. It just means you don't want to hear it.
 

EightBitNate

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,644
Removed of all context, sure.

In context, her statement doesn't sound bad at all.

Even within the correct context, that she wants more diversity within film review, it's still an incredibly bad way to phrase it. At the end of the day though, her goal was well intentioned and everyone knows what she meant, so I don't really understand the crusade some people are on.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
Sorry, there's a lot going on in this thread, but can anyone explain to me what exactly was wrong with the charity viewings the film had for little girls. It just kind of reads like the arguments about people buying chocolate with EBT from years ago.
Doing cool things for girls is bad because disney gets money. Should have bought them dictionaries instead.
#WokeBrands #ImSoWoke
 

Vish

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,184
onjzszysb5j5e.jpg
Thanks.
 

BocoDragon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,207
I can see where Brie's speech is coming from: we want more diverse people in Hollywood. But there's the unfortunate fact of language that to say what you want, you end up pointing out what you don't want: white men. Which is what RLM pounced on... not for no reason (white men bashing is getting old).... but I would have been more charitable to the intention of her speech.

I can relate to Brie's use of saying what she does want by necessarily having to explain what she doesn't want. It's a lot like when I point out I wish there were more diverse Hollywood movie genres. I have to explain what I mean by saying "well, I wish there were more movies that aren't superhero movies". And then, the superhero lovers pounce....
 

EightBitNate

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,644
Your example doesn't even use the core tennant of the issue lol. Its literally, "no you suck" logic.

Do you have an actual answer to my question?

Yeah I responded to another poster. Saying white male opinions are completely irrelevant sounds more like an attack versus saying something like "I'd like to hear more female opinions, especially minority female opinions" which is more a call to action. I haven't heard the whole speech so she might say something like that already, in which case the white male opinion thing is just needlessly said.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,253
Greater Vancouver
Yeah I responded to another poster. Saying white male opinions are completely irrelevant sounds more like an attack versus saying something like "I'd like to hear more female opinions, especially minority female opinions" which is more a call to action.
Won't someone think of the poor white males who dominate every corner of this industry. THEY DESERVE TO BE HEARD TOO!
 

corasaur

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,988
Like I really don't see a problem what were they saying.. they didn't dismissed what she was saying or her views.. at most only the way she was expressing them
they responded to a woman expressing opinions regarding sexism and diversity by spending an extended period talking about how she expressed them too bitchily. it's a standard sexist trope for shutting down women's opinions.
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
2,272
I get that RLM have made some questionable off-hand comments over the years, but the fervor with which some people insist on trying to create a narrative of them as alt-right adjacent or something is incredibly persistent and I've never considered them anything but mostly anti-corporate liberal-ish people who don't care much about politics. If anything, their insistence on trying to remain "apolitical" as much as possible is much worse than them trying to appear as centrists - and in any case, all they usually say in these situations is "Stop fucking giving accolades to mega-corporations for their superficial wokeness" which is more or less the thrust of the most recent hbomberguy video that got next to no play here because what some people hate more than anything is being told "consumption isn't activism, and actually consumerism is bad."

The way people have morphed "they commented on it briefly in a much larger review of the film" into "they went on for an extended period ranting about it!" really exaggerates what actually occurred.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
If anything, their insistence on trying to remain "apolitical" as much as possible is much worse than them saying "Stop fucking giving accolades to mega-corporations for their superficial wokeness" which is more or less the thrust of the most recent hbomberguy video that got next to no play here because what some people hate more than anything is being told "consumption isn't activism, and actually consumerism is bad."
Oh yeah ?
 

GeminiX7

Member
Feb 6, 2019
600
I personally think it's wack as fuck to tone police and criticize this woman's "attitude" because a bunch of dumbass babies responsible for the problem in the first place cant handle being told something in a way that isn't coddling.

What the fuck is that? When minorities and woman had no voice the majority had all the time and ability in the world to speak out and fix this problem. They instead didnt do shit but reinforce the problem they created. Now that these people do have more of a voice and are advocating for themselves and a better industry, they do not need to be so dilute in their opinion as to not make uncomfortable the literal source of the original issue. Shit is fucking dumb. Grow some thicker skin.

She aint even say anything that is actually offensive or rude or out of line. Wow, if shit aint aimed at you, giving the 1592025 white male take on it is not actually important or does not even matter. So offensive!!! A bunch of dudes take on Wonder Woman is not that relevant compared to that of a woman. Shocking!!

This isn't anything people havent heard before. People interpreting stuff like this as "you cant have an opinion if you are a white dude" are being openly obtuse. These types of statements have never ever been, "you can't have an opinion", they have always been, "your demographic's over represented opinion is not as interesting or as needed as that of the target group or under represented ones". Which is like, the least controversial statement ever.
Fucking CHURCH!
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
2,272

I really awkwardly mashed two sentences together there, actually. Those should really just be two separate sentences meaning "them trying to remain apolitical is much worse than just trying to appear as centrists, and all they usually ever say is no worse than ____." Sorry for the awkward structure there.

But yeah - RLM ruthlessly hates obsessive consumerist fandoms. Their podcast parody is basically just stereotypes covered in merch raving about how hype everything is - they hate that shit. It's of no surprise to me at all that they bristle at faces of multi-hundreds of millions of dollars projects sharing what are mostly just benign platitudes. They're deeply cynical about the business behind it all more than anything. I think their "politics" lacks a more coherent structural critique but if nothing else that's an attitude toward media companies that should be more common.
 
Last edited:

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,253
Greater Vancouver
I'm not a white male FWIW, and your response seems to be mocking an opinion I don't hold, so I don't understand the point of this post.
Your entire argument that she 'just isn't being nice enough' is fucking weak. She's saying white men don't get the final word on shit not intended to speak to them. Any reasonable person among white male critics would get out the fucking way and acknowledge shit ain't about them all the time. Instead, it's this shitty tone-policing, with the RLM looking at innocuous fluff interviews and calling her a 'nasty' woman for that, as if that language ain't fucking loaded already.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,789
It still blows my mind some people are actually upset about her Wired / Google autofill video. That shit was great.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,505
Yeah I responded to another poster. Saying white male opinions are completely irrelevant sounds more like an attack versus saying something like "I'd like to hear more female opinions, especially minority female opinions" which is more a call to action. I haven't heard the whole speech so she might say something like that already, in which case the white male opinion thing is just needlessly said.

Why "shouldn't" white male critics know that there is a section of people put there that dont want to hear their opinions on things not trageted to them? That women want more women out there, not more dudes.

Like why shouldn't she be able to say this?
Its not an attack to say that white dude perspective is lacking to be something she cares about in works not targeted towards them.

The whole crux of your argument is basically "she was mean" but nothing in her core argument (not what you proposed she should say but rather what she actually said) is actually mean.

Like these dudes could have literally heard her and went, "lets have a woman on here to discuss this movie with us" and that would actually address a big part of the issue. But they just fucking complained like all the other dudes because its easier to whine that a woman wasnt nice then just hear her criticism and take it to heart.
 

GeminiX7

Member
Feb 6, 2019
600
Again, I don't consider them anything close to alt-right/incel/etc. That's a bit too far a stretch. But they definitely lean a bit too hard into the whole "both sides" thing where "sure we don't subscribe to the belief of nazis/misogynists/racists, but they definitely have a point in complaining about how annoying hearing complaints about sexism/racism/homophobia is" tends to be their main point.

They don't hate non-white, non-male, non-straight films or actors but if the movie in question has anything AT ALL to do with PoC, women, or non-straight people or issues or controversy, they will, without fault, make a point to complain about how "annoyed" they are with anyone talking about it, still trying to cater to both the left leaning groups("Discrimination is stupid and those losers live in thier basements, am I right?") and alt-right audiences ("Fucking shrill SJWs are sooooo annoying, am I right?")

It detracts from thier otherwise funny comedy and at best comes off as insincere and at worst seems pretty telling what thier actual opinions on race, gender, etc is while trying not to "get in trouble". HitB tends to have a "I know people are going to call me racist/sexist for saying this, buuuut [Insert passive aggressive racist/sexist comment here]" in most films not staring white dudes dealing with white dude problems.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,168
Why "shouldn't" white male critics know that there is a section of people put there that dont want to hear their opinions on things not trageted to them? That women want more women out there, not more dudes.

Like why shouldn't she be able to say this?
Its not an attack to say that white dude perspective is lacking to be something she cares about in works not targeted towards them.

The whole crux of your argument is basically "she was mean" but nothing in her core argument (not what you proposed she should say but rather what she actually said) is actually mean.

Like these dudes could have literally heard her and went, "lets have a woman on here to discuss this movie with us" and that would actually address a big part of the issue. But they just fucking complained like all the other dudes because its easier to whine that a woman wasnt nice then just hear her criticism and take it to heart.
Idk after watching the review they more or less seem aligned with exactly what you're saying.
 

Deleted member 51103

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 20, 2018
174
Portland, Oregon
I like RLM and I often agree with them. I feel like the Captain Marvel activism/marketing is lame. I feel that it is covered well in HBomberguy's "Woke Brands" video.

I also feel that RLM has a THEME here. If you look at the larger context of RLM, it's really more about just being burned out by the hype/controversy cycle and being unhappy with the state of movies currently.

HOWEVER. This ties back into the Ghostbusters / The Last Jedi arguments. Many people are arguing in bad faith. They do this for multiple reasons. They just dislike diversity / wokeness for some reason[0]. They just want to harass people on the internet. They enjoy the attention they get by being edge-lords. They ruin the discussion around these products and it's just not worth having a negative opinion.

The way I feel about it: MEH. If people are enjoying the movie and feel empowered, why rain on people's parade? ANY SORT of diversity is great! And I honestly admire Larson for speaking up, even though she looked a bit weird and cringe some of the time. It takes bravery to do that.

edit:

0: "Some reason" - It's white nationalism, misogyny, and racism. Not "some reason."
 
Last edited:

BuckRogers

Member
Apr 5, 2018
774
Yeah I responded to another poster. Saying white male opinions are completely irrelevant sounds more like an attack versus saying something like "I'd like to hear more female opinions, especially minority female opinions" which is more a call to action. I haven't heard the whole speech so she might say something like that already, in which case the white male opinion thing is just needlessly said.

But what you're asking for is almost exactly what she said. When people say you took the line out of context, that's what they mean. She gave a speech that starts with discussing percentages of reviewers from different backgrounds and how they don't match up with society at large and went from there. She tempers her argument with, essentially "I'm not saying I hate white guys" multiple times, and specifies that she is looking not to exclude white guys, but to make sure others are included as well. There's 2-3 minutes of talking (at least in the edited video I saw, so I'm sure there's more) before the one line that everyone is fixated on about the exact thing you're discussing, and the line right before she says specifically that she's talking about the lack of opportunity for POC/Women to read film discussion by people like them.

Even in the line in question she doesn't say "White male opinions are completely irrelevant", she says "I don't need to hear from a 40 year old white dude about what didn't work for him in A Wrinkle in Time, it wasn't made for him, I want to hear what it means to women of color, to teens, to ..." and I think people get hung up on that "I don't need to hear" part, but in the context of what she's talking about it's completely clear she's referencing a specific example, and not a "get rid of white male critics". So should she possibly have added an "only" in there between "don't" and "need"? Maybe, but IMO it's so obvious what she's talking about that the only people misinterpreting it are either doing so willfully or haven't seen the speech and have been influenced by those willfully misinterpreting the line.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
At this point I have no sympathy for people who don't enjoy when a woman or any person in a marginalized group doesn't send a message in a form they think is acceptable. Maybe she's bitchy because she lives in a culture where a contingent of pathetic men get genuinely angry at the very idea of women, black people, LGBTQ+ people, etc. telling them that they can do better in the first place. We live in a culture where we see time and time again that it doesn't fucking matter what the message is. There is no perfect way to tell people about diversity or representation or acceptance because there is already a group of people who care only about the message not the delivery. She could have said it as "nicely" as possible and it would still trigger the same idiots who got furious at Gillette or Cherrios or who say that AOC wants to destroy air travel. I'd rather the people who are marginalized say whatever the fuck they want in whatever tone they want and those who bristle should get the same thick skin that disenfranchised people already have in a culture that is genuinely their constant enemy. We exist in a world that is eager to misinterpret us and warp us because it isn't interested in what we have to say and I just don't give a fuck to play that game any more.
 

misho8723

Member
Jan 7, 2018
3,720
Slovakia
they responded to a woman expressing opinions regarding sexism and diversity by spending an extended period talking about how she expressed them too bitchily. it's a standard sexist trope for shutting down women's opinions.

Well then why didn't she talked more about what to do with the problem that exists, how to change it, who are the people who need to change the things work in that industry without derailing the issues with blaming the movie critics who don't have anything to do with the issue - and of course, a good critic is a good critic no matter his race, gender, the nationality, his religion - and RLM didn't said that she doesn't have the right to say and criticize the movie critics industry, that there needs to be more representation between the genders and races, but more reasonable approach can only help anyone .. I mean, attacking her like the fucking idiots are doing on social medias is of course disgusting and distusting, but because she is right in her overall message that doesn't mean that she is free from criticism, just like a movie automatically isn't good just because it has a good message or moral.. I personally don't see a problem with her speech but I too don't see any problem if someone thinks she could worded her criticism in a better way
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,419
So are we really gonna say that being cynical means it's alright for you to mock the idea of a little girl admiring a woman as a hero?

Because I don't call that cynical. I call that being a douche.
^^^^
Do any of these dudes even have kids, because who are they to talk about how kids react to something. When Rey and Wonder Woman:


so very clear otherwise. Like this is what Brie Larson meant, because they argue shit like the bolded when something very clearly isn't targeted at them.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,419
"Stop fucking giving accolades to mega-corporations for their superficial wokeness"
What's superficial about Black Panther, Wonder Woman, or Captain Marvel?

Well then why didn't she talked more about what to do with the problem that exists, how to change it, who are the people who need to change the things work in that industry without derailing the issues with blaming the movie critics who don't have anything to do with the issue
Someone didn't read the interview because she very clearly talked about how she wanted things to change.
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,632
Doing cool things for girls is bad because disney gets money. Should have bought them dictionaries instead.
#WokeBrands #ImSoWoke
Lol, That's pretty much what I got from the people defending it in the thread. But was that essentially what they said in the video, cuz that could be way more damaging of a view than the causal mysoginism that is currently the focus.
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,218
If I see that fucking Hbomberguy video come up one more time I'm going to be very internally angry, but won't actually do anything about it.

Seriously though. That video isn't making the point people think it is. Hbomberguys stance isn't just blind cynicism to big companies doing something progressive, and if you think it is, you need to watch the video again
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,168
^^^^
Do any of these dudes even have kids, because who are they to talk about how kids react to something. When Rey and Wonder Woman:


so very clear otherwise. Like this is what Brie Larson meant, because they argue shit like the bolded when something very clearly isn't targeted at them.


People were upset about the wonder woman one too. They ain't slick.

Unless I am mistaken, they did not argue the bolded. There is a joke about charities being created for the sake of buying movie tickets for kids instead of food. There was no mocking or questioning of a little girl being able to admire a woman as a hero.
 
Oct 28, 2017
13,691
White male opinions are completely irrelevant", she says "I don't need to hear from a 40 year old white dude about what didn't work for him in A Wrinkle in Time, it wasn't made for him, I want to hear what it means to women of color, to teens, to ..."
Like, what does that even mean it wasn't made for them? Is A Wrinkle in Time about the black experience in America or something? How was it not made for 40 yr old male audience members?
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
Well then why didn't she talked more about what to do with the problem that exists, how to change it, who are the people who need to change the things work in that industry without derailing the issues with blaming the movie critics who don't have anything to do with the issue - and of course, a good critic is a good critic no matter his race, gender, the nationality, his religion - and RLM didn't said that she doesn't have the right to say and criticize the movie critics industry, that there needs to be more representation between the genders and races, but more reasonable approach can only help anyone .. I mean, attacking her like the fucking idiots are doing on social medias is of course disgusting and distusting, but because she is right in her overall message that doesn't mean that she is free from criticism, just like a movie automatically isn't good just because it has a good message or moral.. I personally don't see a problem with her speech but I too don't see any problem if someone thinks she could worded her criticism in a better way
The solution to that problem has been said by many people for decades on decades. Women, minorities, LGBTQ+ peoples have explained the solution to the issues that exist in and outside Hollywood since before the word Hollywood existed. The solutions exist and when they aren't implemented it's only because there's a contingent of people interested in the status quo.