There's never been a clear origin story for the Joker. More often than not he just makes it up because that's what the joker does.
You ever seen the Dark Knight?
Both are sympathetic protagonists in their own films with their story being the one chosen by the filmmakers to be told.
It's called showing nuance and backstory. Whether all of that makes you feel sympathetic to him or not is up to you. You may be shocked to find out that not everyone that does bad things is a bad person all of the time or was not a good person at one point in their life. Life has gray areas like that.
And yet no one has said this is THE definitive take on the character. Only you are claiming this.It's called Joker. Not, Joker, but about this man spiraling down to become him. Like are you all seriously pretending like it's not about the Joker. Or that wasn't greenlit because of the Joker. JFC.
It's called Joker. Not, Joker, but about this man spiraling down to become him. Like are you all seriously pretending like it's not about the Joker. Or that wasn't greenlit because of the Joker. JFC.
It's THE definitive take in the way every super hero movie is supposed to be THE definitive take on the character. That's how the marketing is presenting it, that's how audiences are supposed to take it. It's not hard so don't "well, actually" me about it.And yet no one has said this is THE definitive take on the character. Only you are claiming this.
It's looking up to be one of the best takes on a super hero property. So sure, I'll take it as a definitive (whatever that means). Hopefully it influences other creators too.It's THE definitive take in the way every super hero movie is supposed to be THE definitive take on the character. That's how the marketing is presenting it, that's how audiences are supposed to take it. It's not hard so don't "well, actually" me about it.
I love Breaking Bad and that took the time to show the consequences of Walt's actions by also building up his supporting cast and show how it affected them. Walt was a "villain" as in he became a bad person, but he wasn't a "villain" in comic book terms, in Joker terms, where he was never sympathetic and always a "bad guy". Walt or more of an "anti-hero, and many fans of the show take him that way ot even as a straight up hero because he gets what he wants at the end, you just have to ignore the cost. It think there is a difference between giving a villain nuance and making them relatable and recasting a light on them to show they were always a normal person who turned bad.
Is this a stealth king of comedy postAfter watching the trailer, I wish that this movie was just about a wannabe comedian that fails and loses it, without any of the gotham/joker stuff.
You're clearly misinterpreting the intent by the filmmakers. I'm not sure what you're seeing in the marketing that convinces you this is supposed to be the definitive take on a character that's been around for 80+ years.It's THE definitive take in the way every super hero movie is supposed to be THE definitive take on the character. That's how the marketing is presenting it, that's how audiences are supposed to take it. It's not hard so don't "well, actually" me about it.
Also I didn't say there shouldn't be multiple takes on the Joker, just that the character doesn't work as a main character of his own film.
From the get go it was them saying this was going to be unique take, then everyone saw the first trailers, and people were super hyped about said unique take. The tagline of this movie might as well be "UNIQUE TAKE".You're clearly misinterpreting the intent by the filmmakers. I'm not sure what you're seeing in the marketing that convinces you this is supposed to be the definitive take on a character that's been around for 80+ years.
Holy shit lolIf I wanted to watch some Tragic Hero tryhard (who was last really relevant in the 2000s) "tell it like it is" to the masses, with a script at times unsubtly pandering to the Nazis, I would subscribe to netflix and watch the new Dave Chappelle "comedy" "special"
That is a very bad comparison to make, and highlights a problem people have been trying to say about this movie, which is it turns a villain like Joker into a "white devil" narrative. A narrative we definitely do not need right now, socially.
The white devil narrative is usually for antiheroes, but fits here: put upon central character ultimately hurts everyone around them because they believe their actions are justified because of the monsters in their world. The obstacles. The acceptable targets. It's their way of exerting social dominance while dangling the typical insecurities.
I'm hoping those acceptable targets don't happen to be PoCs like it normally is.
Not at all.
I can understand people not liking the direction but I don't see how anyone can look at the cinematography in this movie and say it looks flat. No modern comic superhero movie property is going this direction so you calling it generic is just laughable to me.Holy fuck everyone is so positive on twitter.
I don't understand, it looks so generic and flat.
I really don't get it. Is it just actor hype ?
Where did I say that?So is your issue is that there's no one to challenge him or that he became a villain?
I don't think the comparison is that bad. I think it's apt. More than Spiderman anyway.
Whether the comparison means that there is an underlying social irresponsibility here, that's different. We can discuss that. Folks and their worried talk about an alt-right co-opt is happening in this thread in fact.
If you mean that Douglas' character and Joker aren't comparable. Explain further. I'm willing to change my opinion if your argument on that front is compelling.
.I can understand people not liking the direction but I don't see how anyone can look at the cinematography in this movie and say it looks flat. No modern comic superhero movie property is going this direction so you calling it generic is just laughable to me.
Where did I say that?
I'm saying just because Batman is a hero and Joker is a villain in the comics, that relationship isn't one that exists here, nor with this different take on Joker.
If you are genuinely trying to understand my "issue", as in what was the point of the first post I made that people were taking in all sorts of other directions, I'm saying that the framing of a character who has the world picking on him being a rationalization for a person to become a villain strikes me as bullshit off the bat and I wish it would go away.
Granted, people that have hard lives deal with negativity that makes it tough to make the right decisions, and everybody struggles, but if you want to do a character study on how someone "turns bad", focusing on external factors being a driving cause isn't the best way to do it.
I think vague is an understatement. All of their other posts were like charades.Sorry for misunderstanding the first post, but tbf, you were vague. This post explains your position better.
It's strange.Everyone here trying to define the Joker like their dad will hit them if they don't.
That movie has been out for decades and it's called The King of Comedy .After watching the trailer, I wish that this movie was just about a wannabe comedian that fails and loses it, without any of the gotham/joker stuff.
That movie has been out for decades and it's called The King of Comedy .
To be fair, people responding "how can a hero be like a villain??" weren't even reading the context of what I wrote and I mainly had to respond to all those posts taking my words and twisting them around.I think vague is an understatement. All of their other posts were like charades.
Oh. Clearly I'm no comedy Royal
The King of Comedy resemblance continues to be very strong, and that's a good thing.
Todd Philips managed to pull an amazing performance out of Jonah Hill. So I think at the very least this movie is going to have great acting.Visuals look great, but I'm still nervous about this. Don't have much faith in the director.
Holy fuck everyone is so positive on twitter.
I don't understand, it looks so generic and flat.
I really don't get it. Is it just actor hype ?
The idea is to tell interesting stories that aren't part of a connected universe. That is the desire of pretty much everyone involved in Joker. They want to do an interesting one off film that doesn't have to lead to anything or tie into some overarching story.You and me both, WB has no clue how to handle DC property's. We got like 3 decent films out of them, one being great.