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Lionel Messi wins Ballon d'Or 2019

E.T.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,624
Vand Dijke is the best defender, Messi best midfielder and best attacker.
Should have won it last year too.
 

Hayeya

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,641
Lebanon
Totally undeserved, Van Dijk should have won.
Ok Messi carried barca, but he only won La Liga, virgil on the other half made a mediocre liverpool and netherland defences become a Rock, he won the Champions league, and was fantastic overall for club and country.

My top 5:

1- van dijk
2- salah
3- Maneh
4- alisson
5- messi

Nb: i hate liverpool, so i am not being biased here, just talking football.
 
Dec 7, 2018
75
I remember when this award was given to the player who had actually made the difference for his team at the highest level, but since like 2010 (when Sneijder and Iniesta were robbed by Messi) it’s been just a ceremony to suck Messi’s dick.
 

Sei

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,619
LA
Do you have any player specific stats to back up your final statement ?

Not saying your are wrong or can't have you own opinion....but when you are making this kind of definitive statement you must have some data to back it up ?
As someone who doesn't watch it follow anything soccer related....what kind of Data would show that Messi definitely wasn't the best player of the year ?
VVD 2018-19.
Champions League Winner.
UEFA Super Cup Winner.
UEFA Nations League Final.
UEFA Nations League Finals Team of the Tournament.
Premier League Player of the Season.
PFA Players' Player of the Year.
UEFA Defender of the Season.
UEFA Men's Player of the Year.
IFFHS Men's World Team.
FIFA FIFPro Men's World11.
Maybe Club World Cup Winner?
 
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Puroresu_kid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,396
Totally undeserved, Van Dijk should have won.
Ok Messi carried barca, but he only won La Liga, virgil on the other half made a mediocre liverpool and netherland defences become a Rock, he won the Champions league, and was fantastic overall for club and country.

My top 5:

1- van dijk
2- salah
3- Maneh
4- alisson
5- messi

Nb: i hate liverpool, so i am not being biased here, just talking football.
I can give you VVD but on no metric possible is Messi the 5th best player on the planet.

I'm a Liverpool fan but there is no way Salah or Mane were better than Messi in 2019.
 

JuanLatino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,362
I refer you to Liverpool’s coach answer

« if the ballon d’or is here the reward the best player ever, just always give it to Messi. If it’s to reward the best player for the calendar year, then Van Djuik (I would have said Mané) should win because he was the best »

It’s a rigged contest when past wins have such a heavy influence on all journalists. It should be reformed
yeah sure using the qoute of van djiks coach is surely not in favour of his player....

From january 2019 to November 2019? Yes I would rank all those Liverpool players above him
on what metric? Goals, Assists, Chances created, carrying the team? Plz back this up
 
Dec 7, 2018
75
Ah yes, scored 60 goals but “robbed” it from Iniesta lmao.
You can score 300 goals against Celta Vigo or Rayo Vallecano or whatever low level team you get to face during the season.

Still doesn’t change the fact that he disappeared in the semis vs Inter, and didn’t make any difference at the World Cup......you know, the competitions where the stakes are the highest and Iniesta and Sneijder carried their teams to the end.

And that’s a fact, I remember he was even embarrassed at the ceremony for robbing the trophy.
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,057
yeah sure using the qoute of van djiks coach is surely not in favour of his player....



on what metric? Goals, Assists, Chances created, carrying the team? Plz back this up
You understand that only using goals/assists would mean no goal keeper or defender would ever win right?

It’s not a « who’s the best attacker » award, it’s « who was the best for the calendar year »

You should probably grasp the difference between those two concepts
 

Puroresu_kid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,396
You can score 300 goals against Celta Vigo or Rayo Vallecano or whatever low level team you get to face during the season.

Still doesn’t change the fact that he disappeared in the semis vs Inter, and didn’t make any difference at the World Cup......you know, the competitions where the stakes are the highest and Iniesta and Sneijder carried their teams to the end.

And that’s a fact, I remember he was even embarrassed at the ceremony for robbing the trophy.
Iniesta would disagree with you.
 

Akauser

Member
Oct 28, 2017
354
London
so by your definition Arsenal, City, Manutd, Chelsea and Liverpool are Mickey Mouse Clubs?
No by my definition Leganes, Eibar, Mallorca, Valladolid, Espanyol, Alaves and probably a few others in La Liga would all get relegated out of the Premier League.

All this stat talk Virg has some great stats that if "anyone knew anything about football" would know are mighty impressive.

-Van Dijk in defence, Liverpool conceded just 22 times in the Premier League last season and kept 21 clean sheets.

-Helped Liverpool keep five consecutive home clean sheets in the Champions League for the first time in the UCL era.

- Helped Liverpool to third Highest Points Tally in Premier League History (97)

- Not dribbled past the entire season.

And if you remember in 2017/2018 Ronaldo scored 54 goals too the same as Messi this year in fewer games (54) to Messi's (58) and yet Modric won the award for finishing 2nd at World Cup and Winning Champs League. So the idea that goals and assists alone are enough is mute as the award tends to favour winners of competitions. Just not this year apparently.
 

JuanLatino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,362
From january 2019 to November 2019? Yes I would rank all those Liverpool players above him
on what metric? Goals, Assists, Chances created, carrying the team? Plz back this up
You understand that only using goals/assists would mean no goal keeper or defender would ever win right?

It’s not a « who’s the best attacker » award, it’s « who was the best for the calendar year »

You should probably grasp the difference between those two concepts
what ? you just said you would rank Mane or Salah over Messi in that time period - the attackers from Liverpool
 

E.T.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,624
No by my definition Leganes, Eibar, Mallorca, Valladolid, Espanyol, Alaves and probably a few others in La Liga would all get relegated out of the Premier League.

All this stat talk Virg has some great stats that if "anyone knew anything about football" would know are mighty impressive.

-Van Dijk in defence, Liverpool conceded just 22 times in the Premier League last season and kept 21 clean sheets.

-Helped Liverpool keep five consecutive home clean sheets in the Champions League for the first time in the UCL era.

- Helped Liverpool to third Highest Points Tally in Premier League History (97)

- Not dribbled past the entire season.

And if you remember in 2017/2018 Ronaldo scored 54 goals too the same as Messi this year in fewer games (54) to Messi's (58) and yet Modric won the award for finishing 2nd at World Cup and Winning Champs League. So the idea that goals and assists alone are enough is mute as the award tends to favour winners of competitions. Just not this year apparently.
La Liga has higher quality football than the PL. PL marketing has worked wonders on the masses for the past decade.
 

Puroresu_kid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,396
You can score 300 goals against Celta Vigo or Rayo Vallecano or whatever low level team you get to face during the season.

Still doesn’t change the fact that he disappeared in the semis vs Inter, and didn’t make any difference at the World Cup......you know, the competitions where the stakes are the highest and Iniesta and Sneijder carried their teams to the end.

And that’s a fact, I remember he was even embarrassed at the ceremony for robbing the trophy.
Now just for reference La Liga was won by Barcelona vs a very strong Madrid side by two points. Barcelona needed 98 points to win the title.

Real Madrid 0-2 barcelona. Two goals by Messi but no that game clearly doesn't count and had no bearing on where the league title went.

This idea that league games are not important is ridiculous.
 

Singh Deep

Member
Dec 10, 2017
75
You can tell who only watch EPL games going by the comments in this thread. My goodness

Would've been a farce if Messi didn't win this one, let's be real.
 

JuanLatino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,362
No by my definition Leganes, Eibar, Mallorca, Valladolid, Espanyol, Alaves and probably a few others in La Liga would all get relegated out of the Premier League.

All this stat talk Virg has some great stats that if "anyone knew anything about football" would know are mighty impressive.

-Van Dijk in defence, Liverpool conceded just 22 times in the Premier League last season and kept 21 clean sheets.

-Helped Liverpool keep five consecutive home clean sheets in the Champions League for the first time in the UCL era.

- Helped Liverpool to third Highest Points Tally in Premier League History (97)

- Not dribbled past the entire season.

And if you remember in 2017/2018 Ronaldo scored 54 goals too the same as Messi this year in fewer games (54) to Messi's (58) and yet Modric won the award for finishing 2nd at World Cup and Winning Champs League. So the idea that goals and assists alone are enough is mute as the award tends to favour winners of competitions. Just not this year apparently.
and yet mostly the spanish teams were dominating Europe for the past years in the CL and EL - if messi proved himself against the top PL Clubs, he surely would have struggled against the likes of Burnley, Brighton, Watford or Norwich. Sure

but if you have to push a narrative you can always find a way - thats the typical, messi can't score on a rainy day in England meme

and regarding Van Dijk - if he would have won, it would be deserved as well. im saying both deserved it simple as that - but Messi winning Ballon D'or is not some miracle based on his performance last season

yeah i remember 2017/18 - Ronaldo scored 44 goals and had 8 assists, Messi 45 Goals and 18 asissts. (Ronaldo had less games like you said) so what? Ronaldo would have deserved over Modric - Or Mbappe

So the idea that goals and assists alone are enough is mute as the award tends to favour winners of competitions
nah Ronaldo won 2013 when Ribery has won every title with Munich
Ronaldo won 2014 when Manuel Neuer won the World Cup
 

JuanLatino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,362
since 2009/10
Euroleague Winners: 6x Spanish Teams, 3x English Teams, 1x Portuguese
Champions League Winners: 6x Spanisch Teams, 2x English Teams, 1x German , 1x Italian
 

Geist 6one7

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,089
MASS
You can score 300 goals against Celta Vigo or Rayo Vallecano or whatever low level team you get to face during the season.

Still doesn’t change the fact that he disappeared in the semis vs Inter, and didn’t make any difference at the World Cup......you know, the competitions where the stakes are the highest and Iniesta and Sneijder carried their teams to the end.

And that’s a fact, I remember he was even embarrassed at the ceremony for robbing the trophy.
He didn’t score against either of those teams in 2010. Iniesta “carried” Spain in 2010??? C’mon man.
 

E.T.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,624
My point still stands.
Spanish teams have been super dominant for most the past decade, the english may dominate for the next 10 years but it does not erase history.

The PL, Sky etc did a fabulous job in convincing the masses of the quality of football played in england while wrapping it all up in excellent presentation which other leagues do not match.
 

NoUse4AName

Member
Feb 5, 2019
224
An individual prize like Ballon D'or is pointless in a teamwork discipline.

Messi for me is the best player in soccer history and when he retires...I'm pretty sure that we never going to see a player dominate soccer like Messi again not in this life. XD
 

Mobu

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,428
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E.T.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,624
since 2009/10
Euroleague Winners: 6x Spanish Teams, 3x English Teams, 1x Portuguese
Champions League Winners: 6x Spanisch Teams, 2x English Teams, 1x German , 1x Italian
The rainy day in stoke meme is so apt, so is when english teams play foreign teams and the commentator points out how much difficulty a foreign player or team has with the "pace and power of the PL"

Jokers
 

Anomander

Member
Oct 27, 2017
374
I could get rich mining the salt in this thread. Where is that poster with Tom Brady avatar who hated Messi with a burning passion lmao.
 

JuanLatino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,362
The rainy day in stoke meme is so apt, so is when english teams play foreign teams and the commentator points out how much difficulty a foreign player or team has with the "pace and power of the PL"

Jokers
reminds me also of that claim that La Liga Players would struggle in the PL
 

Akauser

Member
Oct 28, 2017
354
London
Cmon lets be real here the Lower Table Spanish teams are very weak they don't contibute many players to the top national teams whereas the Premier League teams down to 10 or 12th do.

As an example of how poor the lower league teams are Messi scored 5 with 3 Assists in 4 Games against the relegated sides and scored 12 assissted 4 in 6 games against Sevilla Espanyol and Levante. Yet only got 1 goal and 1 assist against Atletico and Real Madrid all season (played Madrid Once only). Thats 17 goals almost half his total tally against relegated and teams outside the top 6. Messi is phenomenal no doubt but Vardy would do Messi numbers in that Barca team against the likes of Rayo Huesca Girona and Levante.
 

Big-E

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,778
We all know Serie A is where the true pros play. Thiery Henry was chased out of Serie A and ended up in the EPL as a generational talent. Ronaldo goes from La Liga into mediocre player. I rest my case. Serie A > All.
 

jrush64

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,753
As expected the Liverpool fans on this forum actually believe that their defender should have won over Messi. Hell Ronaldo and Mbappe should even be above VDD.
 

JuanLatino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,362
Cmon lets be real here the Lower Table Spanish teams are very weak they don't contibute many players to the top national teams whereas the Premier League teams down to 10 or 12th do.

As an example of how poor the lower league teams are Messi scored 5 with 3 Assists in 4 Games against the relegated sides and scored 12 assissted 4 in 6 games against Sevilla Espanyol and Levante. Yet only got 1 goal and 1 assist against Atletico and Real Madrid all season (played Madrid Once only). Thats 17 goals almost half his total tally against relegated and teams outside the top 6. Messi is phenomenal no doubt but Vardy would do Messi numbers in that Barca team against the likes of Rayo Huesca Girona and Levante.
if it's that easy i wonder why other players didn't manage to reach those stats that messi and Ronaldo did in La Liga, breaking one record after another

there must have been surely other good players in La Liga or at Barca right?

im sure Vardy would also dribble trough the whole Real Madrid Defense and score a goal
 

Akauser

Member
Oct 28, 2017
354
London
reminds me also of that claim that La Liga Players would struggle in the PL
Barring a few players most of whom came to prem young Spanish players haven't done great in the Prem at all. I go all the way back to Mendieta, Morientes, Alby Moreno, Aspas (lol), Luque. More recently Pedro (Hasn't had a double figure goal season in 5 years) Morata, Lets not forget Roberto Soldado. The list is pretty poor co sidering most of these players commanded huge fees.
 

Astandahl

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,132
The fact that Ronnie doesn't have more Balon D'or than anyone else is one of the biggest disgrace in football history.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
7,426
Messi's stats speak for themselves. What also impresses me about Messi (and I this this applies to Ronaldo too) is the number of games they play. The last two full seasons Messi has played 54 then 50 games. That's amazing, when most non-defenders are out for various reasons, whether to rest, or are injured, and you know he's a target for the other team. Especially at their ages. He's also a very clean player. Going back the last 2-3 years he averages jjust 1 yellow card every 10 games, and the only reds he has had in his career are questionable, one way back when he first started playing, and one this summer which looked like bs.
 

JuanLatino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,362
Barring a few players most of whom came to prem young Spanish players haven't done great in the Prem at all. I go all the way back to Mendieta, Morientes, Alby Moreno, Aspas (lol), Luque. More recently Pedro (Hasn't had a double figure goal season in 5 years) Morata, Lets not forget Roberto Soldado. The list is pretty poor co sidering most of these players commanded huge fees.
im not talking about spanisch players but La Liga or let's say the notion that pyisically weaker players would go down in the PL.
overpriced players are nothing new to that league that swims in money tbh
 

ty_hot

Member
Dec 14, 2017
3,751
Im still pissed that Modric won last year. Is there anyone talking about how he is playing? Is anyone worried if he ever get a suspension or is injured for a few matches? Anyone care that he is not even in the top 10 this year? Last year was a joke, the real result for last year was Cristiano on top, which would make him and Messi 6 times each the best.

btw, I like Messi more than Ronaldo.