Phoenixazure

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,473
I'll always be down for a turn based rpg but I'm happy with the direction FFXVI is going. If they can implement a party mechanic within its DMC style combat it has the chance of being a top tier combat system. XVI is the most hyped I've been for a offline FF as long as I can remember
 

Argentil

Member
Oct 27, 2017
798
I think this is a good thing overall as long as the ATB/turn-based side projects continue. Octopath Traveler, Bravely Default, I am Setsuna etc.

I think SE have realised that a triple-A Final Fantasy with traditional gameplay isn't practical anymore - but they do need to continue to offer those classic experiences that cater to that audience. It's time for a Tactics 2, there's been a revival of the genre. They really are wasting a lot of potential by not having more "single-A" spinoff titles.
 

Kain

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,797
For me VIIR's system is almost perfect because it blends both action and turn based but I have nothing against full action unless it's some garbage like XV. If the dude in charge of the combat is indeed the designer of DD and DMCV we can be sure it's going to be good.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
9,223
So how do we think a "party" system could be implemented with this? It already looks like it's fully real time, as opposed to FFVII-R's blend of turn-based and real time.

I could see AI controlled party members, maybe with character switching to keep combos and juggles up? Just a thought.
 

Aranjah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,186
Not a fan. I don't really like action games because I'm bad at them, so yet another series being "not for me" when it previously was "for me" is not something I'm happy about.
 

Mattersnotnow

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,008
If that's a direction they want to continue exploring sure. My hesitation comes from my perception that FFXV combat was not fun throughout the whole game length however and this does not look very different.

Not saying turn based doesn't get old, it's all about the systems and in case of action the "feel".

I do think FFVIIR's combat was fun as hell and for sure hope they continue exploring design possibilities inspired by it
 

Coinspinner

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,161
Imagine how much higher Pokemon and Fire Emblem's sales would be if those series became character action games.

Sure am glad the Raidou series supplanted both Megaten and Persona.

The failing Dragon Quest series really turned it around when DQ9 was an action RPG. Fans cheered when it was revealed!

...this narrative that FF has to become an action game series because it can't succeed as a command/turn based RPG seems to never get applied to other popular turn-based games series. It's frustrating.
 

KeyChainDude

Member
Oct 28, 2017
714
I hope they will find a good balance. FFVIIR was perfect IMO.

If they do something like that, where you still need to exploit the enemy's weakness and buff the party while dodging and slashing, I'll be happy.
 

Egida

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,431
Meh, I miss having a diverse party and being able to control each of them in battle.

At least it's not that trashy hold the button system XV had.
 
OP
OP
Dust

Dust

C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,049
So how do we think a "party" system could be implemented with this? It already looks like it's fully real time, as opposed to FFVII-R's blend of turn-based and real time.

I could see AI controlled party members, maybe with character switching to keep combos and juggles up? Just a thought.
I was brainstorming this just now (rather than working lol).

Let's say you have three members in active party.
Member 1 > Manual control, Attacker
Member 2 and 3 > Support mode set by roles you assign

You can play as any character with their unque offensive attacks, but when you are not controlling them they exclusively support main attacker or try to crowd control. Roles like Healer, Sentinel etc. Enemies would mostly focus on controlled character so the combat/combo keeps flowing naturally.
 

Ayirek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,299
I don't care as long as it's fun.
Bingo. Final Fantasy has always been about changing up the battle systems, and while they were mechanical tweaks to how menu-based combat worked for the first nine games, from ten on the experimentation has been heavy. One pure action FF game doesn't mean the demise of menu-based combat (hell we haven't even seen the battle UI for this game, though I can't imagine it being menu-based from the small snippets we've seen). If there truly is just one playable character and no parties, though, a menu-based system doesn't really make much sense. I'm looking forward to seeing more info. XV's combat, while flashy, wasn't really that fun. Hopefully XVI isn't just all flash with little substance; I wanna feel those attacks.
 

Sumio Mondo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,067
United Kingdom
Don't care that much when other series out there are (and always have been) superior in turn based combat. See: Atlus games.

Getting the Combat guy from Capcom who worked on DMC5's battle system is a great get.
 

Rpgmonkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,360
I mean they didn't really show or explain much so it's hard to pin down what FFXVI is doing exactly. That said I'm not really against it, but I'm can't say I'm not a bit bored with so many Japanese (Action) RPGs going in a fairly similar direction. I expect action combat for FFXVI or something that heavily leans towards that, but was hoping it was going to try and stand out with something "heavier", not another combat system with flash dodges and teleports and combo strings and stuff.

Not that I think it's bad but at the moment you can guess which basic concepts will be present ahead of time in a lot of these games and have a decent chance of being right on some or all of it. I would say turn/command-based RPGs were like this too but around the late SNES-period really began to evolve and branch out, which lead to some really interesting and creative stuff on the PS1 and PS2. Hopefully over time Action RPGs will do the same.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,824
Imagine how much higher Pokemon and Fire Emblem's sales would be if those series became character action games.

Sure am glad the Raidou series supplanted both Megaten and Persona.

The failing Dragon Quest series really turned it around when DQ9 was an action RPG. Fans cheered when it was revealed!

...this narrative that FF has to become an action game series because it can't succeed as a command/turn based RPG seems to never get applied to other popular turn-based games series. It's frustrating.

Because the narrative is as nonsense as the one that turn-based systems are "outdated" and were "born of technical limitations," when in reality they've evolved alongside action-based games.

To your point, last I checked, while FFXV sold very well, VII -- a turn-based ATB game -- is still by far the best-seller of the franchise, and XV's numbers are similar to entries like X or VIII.

Some people just want character action games to be everything, at the expense of everyone else and all genre diversity. The argument that we're now just in a time period where command-based games can't sell and everything has to be homogenized into character action (or, after Skyrim, open world) is just absurd, and mistakes industry trends (which SE chooses to follow) for sales-based mandates.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,710
As a guy who likes action games, I dig it.

I do however feel for those that were into the turn-based style and liked seeing that evolve over time because that clearly isn't the goal anymore.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,652
All we saw were some attack/dodge animations with no UI or any kind of context, we have no idea how this game plays.

It could have an ATB bar with a 4 team party and a full blown gambit system for all we know.
 

Spacejaws

"This guy are sick" of the One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,064
Scotland
I must admit I have always been kinda heartbroken that FF moved away from Turbased since X but to be honest I much rather it be full action than the wierd semi-action/auto-action systems they've attempted. Since XII it feels like they have been aiming for style over substance.

I'm looking forward to a game that stops trying to pussy foot around being an action title. Hope in the future they try a turnbased title again but I don't expect them to ever go back. As long as they do not repeat FFXV's system I'll be happy that shit was horrible.
 

Weebos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,060
I'm disappointed, but it's been on this trajectory for awhile so I'm not surprised. The mainline series just isn't for me anymore.
 

robot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,478
They've been headed this way for a while so I think it's fine, but boy do they know how to make a goooood turn-based system when they feel like it (FFX, FFT).
 

Stoof

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,978
Haven't played FF7R yet but the combat in XVI looks miles better than 15 so I'm pretty damn stoked.
 

Jamaro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,315
It's about time, this halfway house has done no favours.
This is how I feel. I've always been a fan of ATB style, but a half way action system just feels like a tease. You control every move but do not have the complete responsiveness of a fully committed action system. Just go all the way in so the combat controls 1000% better.

Edit: Not saying I prefer an action based FF over turn based. I'll reserve judgement until seeing how a full action system plays if they go that route, but this hybrid stuff is just garbage to me. Pick one and do it well I say.
 

Issen

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,913
Madly in love with it. Hope the combat is good for action game standards AND the rest of the game meets good RPG standards.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
9,223
I was brainstorming this just now (rather than working lol).

Let's say you have three members in active party.
Member 1 > Manual control, Attacker
Member 2 and 3 > Support mode set by roles you assign

You can play as any character with their unque offensive attacks, but when you are not controlling them they exclusively support main attacker or try to crowd control. Roles like Healer, Sentinel etc. Enemies would mostly focus on controlled character so the combat/combo keeps flowing naturally.
That's a cool thought. Keeps character roles in play while maintaining an action-heavy system for the player.
 

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,356
Considering that it appears Ryota Suzuki is the battle director for XVI, I'm fucking ecstatic.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,388
People acting like action games are brainless probably haven't played the best in the genre...Ninja Gaiden Black, DMC3, etc. I'm ecstatic to see FF embrace full action.
 

Torpedo Vegas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,140
Parts Unknown.
Is the reveal trailer the only thing they have shown, because the combat in it didn't look all that great. It still looked like it was a sliding around teleporting mess.
 

Eppcetera

Member
Mar 3, 2018
1,937
I'm not a fan of the emphasis on action in Final Fantasy (to me, the ATB used in FFIV-FFIX is a fundamental part of the series), and Square hasn't convinced me that they can actually make a good action game (I liked Nier Automata's combat well enough, but it was developed by Platinum, not Square). Final Fantasy XV had by far the worst gameplay in the series, in my opinion, so the similarities I see between this game and FFXV do not inspire any confidence in me.

That said, I will still have fun with Final Fantasy XVI if 1) the action combat is actually fun this time or 2) the rest of the game is so good that I don't care about the combat sucking. I wasn't a fan of the combat in FFXII, FFXIII, or FFXV, and it wouldn't have bothered me nearly as much if I'd liked those games' stories. I'm a lot more willing to put up with mediocre gameplay in an RPG if the story makes up for it, at least.

In any case, I'm going to wait for more info and until I have a chance to play the game before judging it too harshly. Maybe the game will have party members and other playable characters. It's hard to say after only seeing a four-minute trailer of an unfinished game.


It will never stop being sad that Square Enix feels that Final Fantasy needs to become an action series while ignoring that people liked Bravely Default and Dragon Quest XI for a reason. And god forbid SE glanced over at Atlus and saw how to make a turn-based system deeper and more engaging. The whole thing is so silly. When I see FFXVI acting like Devil May Cry it feels like an old man trying to be young and hip.

Seriously, Square acts surprised every single time one of their turn-based games, like Bravely Default or Octopath Traveler, sells well, and it annoys me to no end. The only reason I came to like either of the Square or Enix big franchises is their turn-based games, and I'd like to see them try and make another big budget turn-based Final Fantasy and see whether it's a success or not before they say that turn-based games will not sell. The last time they committed to a turn-based Final Fantasy (with FFX), it sold extremely well.

The argument of "let DQ be traditional and let FF evolve" makes sense to a point, but DQ fulfills a niche that is quantifiably different than say, the PS1-PS2 Final Fantasy titles, and I think the franchise and company should be strong enough to branch and support both. It's not enough to say "if you're a final fantasy fan and don't like action games, tough, go play dragon quest instead".

If the Persona and SMT games show anything, it's that turn-based games can evolve, too. Oh well. I'm basically resigned to Square never making the kind of Final Fantasy game that I want again.
 

fourfourfun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,830
England
What I like about a move like this is it makes a statement: Final Fantasy doesn't need to be about taking turns, Final Fantasy doesn't have to have a party.

Nothing stifles creativity than erecting arbitrary rules.
 

GetDigitized

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,836
It's great, they always have good combat systems, you can only do so much with turn based battles and most casual / non ff consumers arent a fan of them, especially not complicated jrpg ones. Action games are easier to pick up and funner. Turn based fans have DQ ,indie games,Bravely and octopath among others. FF games have always(or claimed to be) been about pushing the envelope which I think Turn based battles are a major roadblock for .
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,515
UK
Honestly if FF goes the way of actual action games, I'm excited.

There's enough turn based RPGs out there so I'm not gonna miss FF not being one anymore.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,596
I feel like posts like these are intentionally belligerent.

Or do you think that this is from 1999?

DQXI-Sales-Fami_08-01-17.jpg
Don't let yourself be fooled, turn-based rpgs are a relic of the past and arpgs are the future, despite existing before turn-based was a thing. It's clearly a limitation of the hardware and it doesn't sell well, particularly in Japan. I'm just glad games have evolved and we now have more realistic iterations of the genre, floating people fighting mid-air warping all over the place.
 

Anustart

9 Million Scovilles
Avenger
Nov 12, 2017
9,176
Action isn't what I wanted out of final fantasy, and the last one I liked was ff12. Great for those who do enjoy it though!

May not be for me anymore but a lot of people enjoy it so it's not all bad.
 

Gyroscope

Member
Oct 25, 2017
791
I for one would welcome a new Mainline Final Fantasy with turn based combat. No question.

I do not mind them pursuing a full action combat system as they are recently.

I do have issue with how half-baked their efforts have been. FF7R and FFXV are (to me) terrible 'action games' if that is what they are pursing. There were mentions of the DMCV battle director/designer on the team for XVI. Which is great. If they go full DMC, that's awesome. There is a depth that has been there that Final Fantasy has not yet achieved yet. While others have. See Platinum Games RPGs.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,824
People acting like action games are brainless probably haven't played the best in the genre...Ninja Gaiden Black, DMC3, etc. I'm ecstatic to see FF embrace full action.

I don't think anyone would genuinely suggest all action games are "mindless," especially since one could apply the label to anything from Dynasty Warriors to DMC to Dark Souls, which all play radically different, from their pacing to how they challenge the player.

But the reality is action broadly requires different skill-sets to turn-based/command-based games, and pivoting the franchise to character action is inevitably going to alienate a lot of established fans as a result.

Broadly speaking, command-based games, whether turn-based or a hybrid like ATB, allow the player room to think and deliberate on their tactics or approach, while action-based games -- especially of the sort that XVI looks like it could be -- require reflexive input.

Honestly if FF goes the way of actual action games, I'm excited.

There's enough turn based RPGs out there so I'm not gonna miss FF not being one anymore.

I mean, sure, there are other turn-based RPGs, but Final Fantasy was for many years the flagship AAA franchise of the genre (which is not to say it always had the best or most challenging battle systems).

Without Final Fantasy, how many AAA (pseudo-)turn-based JRPGs are there? Precious few, almost none really. Meanwhile, how many AAA action games are there? The industry is littered with them. So I don't think FF is an easy write-off to most.