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Should we move to a new OT?

  • Yes

    Votes: 86 21.9%
  • No

    Votes: 80 20.4%
  • Wait until a couple weeks before E3

    Votes: 226 57.7%

  • Total voters
    392
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oct 27, 2017
6,942
VP Spencer said they areincreasing investment in first party, that's over 1 billion.
How's that not translate into 5 or more new studios? It's enough to fund almost 20 Horizon ZD caliber titles.
He didn't say anything about 1 billion dollars also 1 billion dollars doesn't translate into multiple big AAA studios. It equaled 1 big studio(black tusk/coalition) and a bunch of smaller studios and games

Also HZD didn't cost $50 million dollars. That was already debunked

What you'll see is what was in my first post. 1 big new AAA studio and continued investment in "second" party games. Probably ranging from the size of state of decay and crackdown to your Ori's etc. Phil mentioned that he signed a game last summer in an off shoot comment. That's probably going to go into the global publishing side and count there
 

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
61,075
Xbox needs more fan-service games without a doubt. This would be a great start at least.

They need to acknowledge they have so many great IPs and worlds sitting on for way too many years now. It's insane and stupid they aren't doing anything with all those impactful trademarks they own.

A game like Banjo-Kazooie could be huge for the whole brand and bring a completely new demographic into the ecosystem if done right. They simply don't have the balls for whatever reasons.

I dont know. I think MS does alot of fan service already. We even got a Voodoo Vince (wich not alot of people bought)
 

Klobrille

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,360
Germany
I dont know. I think MS does alot of fan service already. We even got a Voodoo Vince (wich not alot of people bought)
Besides giving their "okay" I don't think MS did -anything- for that thing to happen. The original creators did this as a passion project.

Besides Halo Wars 2 they didn't dona lot fan-service yet. Maybe Crackdown 3.
 
Dec 31, 2017
627
Virginia
VP Spencer said they areincreasing investment in first party, that's over 1 billion.
How's that not translate into 5 or more new studios? It's enough to fund almost 20 Horizon ZD caliber titles.

If a game costs $30-40 million, that's just part of the price, you then need to pay devs and contracters, outsourcing, marketing and marketing preparation, retail partnershipsz, approvals, ip registrations, lawyers, and some side issues.

Now we are between $100-$200 to operate a big studio and a couple of it's games.

So if the games flop that's a big hit.

Making multiple horizon studios, say 5, and having 3 sell poorly would cause the investment to be sero.
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,072
VP Spencer said they areincreasing investment in first party, that's over 1 billion.
How's that not translate into 5 or more new studios? It's enough to fund almost 20 Horizon ZD caliber titles.

Just for clarity, HZD cost at least 49 million euros, or whatever the figure was. The total number was very likely to have been a lot more than that; probably more like double given the scope of the game and there was 250 Guerrilla staff & 100 outside contractors working on it at times.
 

m23

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,422
Besides giving their "okay" I don't think MS did -anything- for that thing to happen. The original creators did this as a passion project.

Besides Halo Wars 2 they didn't dona lot fan-service yet. Maybe Crackdown 3.

I thought Phantom Dust was cool, especially the fact that it was given out for free. Of course this was probably to make up for the cancellation of the other project.
 

litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
MS should've never dropped their relationship with Mistwalker and thought longterm and have a studio dedicated in making quality exclusive Double to Triple AAA JRPGs.
 

Klobrille

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,360
Germany
If bitter means let down and disappointed, in your bubble.
I even get where you are coming from. It's just that ... No other console offers me the multiplayer experiences and ecosystem like MS does. This is why I can't abandon the brand. Sony's first-party output is great on paper - I agree with that - but all they are releasing are games I play for maybe a week and they are done. I also wish MS would have a better output - but at least their multiplayer experiences are the best you can have. And in the end playing with friends is all that matters to me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,072
No thanks. We want more please.

Halo and Gears will always be back. They're MS's #1 and #2 exclusive franchises (NB - Forza may be bigger than Gears overall, but I bet Gears makes more noise in the social media sphere) (I'm also not counting Minecraft, hence I said exclusive franchises). But you're literally saying "No thanks" to the idea of these devs making new IPs. How can you not want something new?! If they fail, then it's back to Gears and Halo. If they succeed then the studios will probably expand and they'll be alternating between new franchises & established franchises.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,786
USA
?? Im sick to death of Halo and Gears. Both series needs to be put to bed and give a 10 year break. Make new games. Get those talented studios on new IP.

We've had one Gears game and one Halo game this entire generation.

How exactly are you "sick to death" of them?

Without Halo 5 and Gears 4, the XB1 lineup is even worse. No tent pole exclusives at all.
 

etta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,512
I even get where you are coming from. It's just that ... No other console offers me the multiplayer experiences and ecosystem like MS does. This is why I can't abandon the brand. Sony's first-party output is great on paper - I agree with that - but all they are releasing are games I play for maybe a week and they are done. I also wish MS would have a better output - but at least their multiplayer experiences are the best you can have. And in the end playing with friends is all that matters to me.
I understand where you're coming from, I'd probably be in the same boat had I not gravitated towards Steam for some of the more multiplayer-intensive games like DOTA, Rainbow Six Siege, Battlefield, Overwatch. The games where I think console multiplayer is superior to PC like Halo/Gears, FIFA, Call of Duty, I no longer play in such quantities to make anything significant out of it. So in the end the console for me is mostly about the single player component, which is probably why it's disappointing to compare Microsoft's ambition on story/narrative-driven experiences to that of Sony's.

"feeling or showing anger, hurt, or resentment because of bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment." The bubble didn't even get to pop...
I used "bubble" because you're not willing to see anything extending past your line of sight, which I don't know how limited it is in this situation, how many of my arguments did consider? Just the last few or the older ones as well? Because "bitter" is reductive.
 

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,474
Because "bitter" is reductive.
What is written is literal unless a sign of ambiguity is shown, what is hyperbolic is unable to be reliably termed reductive if it simply brakes down to it's basis/ informal fallacy.
I used "bubble" because you're not willing to see anything extending past your line of sight
This is based on...? an assumption of fanboyism of which none is present or another grasped point based on a collective.
how many of my arguments did consider? Just the last few or the older ones as well?
Conversation in this case is a real time affair based on that of a singular quote, you seem to assume based on prior experience. All that I stated was "Don't worry thats just Etta" i.e not a troll, followed by "bitter ex-xbox fan" which is literal. As in no longer an Xbox fan as you were prior and that is due to a sense of bitterness, which taken as it's literal definition which I have stated falls in line with your post. Would you say you don't show anger based on a bad experience as a Xbox user? Not everyone is trying to ambiguously make an insult Etta. Though it is understandable based on the shit that was thrown at you for being an optimist on the old forum.
 

etta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,512
What is written is literal unless a sign of ambiguity is shown, what is hyperbolic is unable to be reliably termed reductive if it simply brakes down to it's basis/ informal fallacy.

This is based on...? an assumption of fanboyism of which none is present or another grasped point based on a collective.

Conversation in this case is a real time affair based on that of a singular quote, you seem to assume based on prior experience. All that I stated was "Don't worry thats just Etta" i.e not a troll, followed by "bitter ex-xbox fan" which is literal. As in no longer an Xbox fan as you were prior and that is due to a sense of bitterness, which taken as it's literal definition which I have stated falls in line with your post. Would you say you don't show anger based on a bad experience as a Xbox user? Not everyone is trying to ambiguously make an insult Etta. Though it is understandable based on the shit that was thrown at you for being an optimist on the old forum.
Dear heavans, man, get ahold of yourself. You're rampantly focusing and overanalyzing the wrong details.
Christ.
 

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,474
Dear heavans, man, get ahold of yourself. You're rampantly focusing and overanalyzing the wrong details.
Christ.
Huh? we speaking the same language? this is based on you seemingly taking my post as ambiguously negative which I was just saying it wasn't. I'm so confused... what did I do to warrant the response "get ahold of yourself" and "overanalysing."
 

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,474
Get a room you two lovebirds. ;)
Will you act as the translator ;) ?


Anyways back on topic:

Did we ever hear anything more about the AR MMO? I can't seem to find the original Job listing.
Do you love MMOs? Are you excited about Virtual Reality? Would you like every Xbox user to experience your design every time they use it? We are embarking on a bold charter and need your help us take the next step. The Xbox Mixed Reality team is looking for an experienced senior design manager with deep expertise and passion around crafting immersive social systems and experiences. We're looking to build a massively social gaming and entertainment experience for both the PC and the console. Here is an opportunity to join a fun and collaborative team that experiments with the latest toys, works with state of the art tech, and crafts the future of entertainment.


If you Xbox only folks haven't played Darkest Dungeon yet, you're in for a real treat. Fantastic game.
I'll second that, though prepare for some bullshit...
 
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Zeta Ori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,102
NY
VP Spencer said they areincreasing investment in first party, that's over 1 billion.
How's that not translate into 5 or more new studios? It's enough to fund almost 20 Horizon ZD caliber titles.

Because there's a lot more to making a game paying than just giving money to developers, and the current state of AAA development is just too risky to invest in that many studios.

Besides that, in my own opinion there's just no reason for MS to invest in 5 new first party studios when they really don't need that many in the first place. I'd say they maybe need two:

Another "new IP factory" like how Rare is currently, and another team focused on reviving older MS IP's on a AA scale.

With the current set up, there is just rarely anything to look forward to. This thread is a testament to that. We know Halo/Gears/Forza is coming and while we don't know how the quality of games like Sea of Thieves or Crackdown 3 might turn out, they have been known about for so long it's hard to look at these titles with the same anticipation as some of the lineup we are seeing on Sony's end. What they need more than ever is a wildcard studio that announces a new IP that's something no one is expecting and another studio that capitalizes on the nostalgia of Xbox's past. An updated take on games like Phantom Dust, Ninety-Nine Nights, Gunvalkyrie, Breakdown, etc. don't need super large budgets and 3+ plus years in development to get a positive reaction from fans who have been here since the beginning, not to mention the era of GaaS could still see these smaller AA titles be financially successful with much less risk.
 

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,474
Because there's a lot more to making a game paying than just giving money to developers, and the current state of AAA development is just too risky to invest in that many studios.

Besides that, in my own opinion there's just no reason for MS to invest in 5 new first party studios when they really don't need that many in the first place. I'd say they maybe need two:

Another "new IP factory" like how Rare is currently, and another team focused on reviving older MS IP's on a AA scale.

With the current set up, there is just rarely anything to look forward to. This thread is a testament to that. We know Halo/Gears/Forza is coming and while we don't know how the quality of games like Sea of Thieves or Crackdown 3 might turn out, they have been known about for so long it's hard to look at these titles with the same anticipation as some of the lineup we are seeing on Sony's end. What they need more than ever is a wildcard studio that announces a new IP that's something no one is expecting and another studio that capitalizes on the nostalgia of Xbox's past. An updated take on games like Phantom Dust, Ninety-Nine Nights, Gunvalkyrie, Breakdown, etc. don't need super large budgets and 3+ plus years in development to get a positive reaction from fans who have been here since the beginning, not to mention the era of GaaS could still see these smaller AA titles be financially successful with much less risk.

I don't think we would be getting the AA games from internal teams though, that seems like it would continue to be Shannon's department. That's just based on the difference in costs between internal and external development, which is unique to MS (hopefully it changes.)
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,367
Yep, as Shannon Loftis already said regarding first party:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...mes-that-unite-people-rather-than-divide-them

"Right now we are very focused on games that bring people together, who form communities and find ways to self express," Loftis explains. "What we've noticed during this generation is that it is less of a case of going out and spending a couple of hundred million and putting a blockbuster on a shelf, as it is a case of creating a small game that gamers latch onto because it is great to watch, or there are awesome screen clips that you can share with others. We are indexing on that quite a bit."

Also unless Microsoft changes their salary structure, you can forget massive investment in internal studios as they don't have an incentive to make a special case for Xbox. External partnerships suit them much better from a ROI standpoint.
 

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,474
I don't know.. Nadella seems to be trimming the fat recently, I could potentially see him changing some of that.
 

Calverz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,586
We've had one Gears game and one Halo game this entire generation.

How exactly are you "sick to death" of them?

Without Halo 5 and Gears 4, the XB1 lineup is even worse. No tent pole exclusives at all.
Im sick to death of them as they been pumping them out for last 10 years. Your argument of 1 game this entire generation is false. MCC, halo wars 2, gears ultimate edition. Get these guys making the next big franchise.
 

Hindle

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,449
Don't really expect any new studios or acquisitions this year.

They will save all that news for the timing of the next gen.

Basically Xbox Two gets announced at a show. Phil Spencer says something like: and we are pleased to announce a new studio that is working on a major new IP for us.
 

Zukkoyaki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,291
I agree that we shouldn't expect any new studios or acquisitions. Realistically they'll announce new partnerships with some of the larger independent studios.
 

Zeta Ori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,102
NY
I don't think we would be getting the AA games from internal teams though, that seems like it would continue to be Shannon's department. That's just based on the difference in costs between internal and external development, which is unique to MS (hopefully it changes.)

Correct, I also hope it changes because that inflexibility seriously hurts their options in their current situation.

Outside my hypothetical scenario though, I still believe it's a solid idea, just not one that could work as simply as it's typed.

That's where I feel MS's reliance on second-party relationships pops up, a situation that's been a part of Xbox's history since the launch of the OG and it's great support from Sega.

If I were MS in their current situation, funding second-party releases (like the rumors we are hearing about Playground and Studio Gobo) and giving support for titles like PUBG would be my way of stretching all I had as far as possible to make it through the generation, while in the background working on fixing my own first-party. The main issue would IP ownership, if MS retains ownership of the IP's they let second-party studios develop, then using the second-party studios to make these games while building actual first-party teams to take over the IP when ready (or acquiring the second party studio directly) would be my personal course of action.

So take the same earlier idea of 2 first-party studios, one working on bigger AAA releases and new IP's, the other working on more niche AA releases of older IP's, and apply it to the plan above. If either ended up being a poor decision financially, you avoid the risk of having to close an entire first-party studio like they did with Lionhead. If they do end up being successful, from there you have the blueprint already laid out on how to continue.
 

Klobrille

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,360
Germany
Don't really expect any new studios or acquisitions this year.

They will save all that news for the timing of the next gen.

Basically Xbox Two gets announced at a show. Phil Spencer says something like: and we are pleased to announce a new studio that is working on a major new IP for us.
The timing would be difficult for E3 though as if they really buy a new studio they need to publish an investor note as soon as possible. There will definitely happen something this year. Because they need to. 100%. In which form or shape remains to be seen.
 

Monty Mole

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
855
I agree that we shouldn't expect any new studios or acquisitions. Realistically they'll announce new partnerships with some of the larger independent studios.
When you think about the $2.5b they spent on Mojang, and you then realise that it the same net worth of Zenimax.. it's baffling. Zenimax alone would have solved all their first party problems in an instant (it still would). Or indeed Valve also has a $2.5b valuation, and they would no longer be competing against Steam on PC.

I just wonder why they wanted Minecraft so much in particular and what the end game was.
 

Zukkoyaki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,291
There will be.

Just not this year.
My hunch is that during the E3 conference Phil will say something like, "We hear you and we're taking steps to bring new, amazing exclusives to Xbox. We're happy to announce partnerships with..."

Then they show like 3 or 4 developer logos showing who they're working with. Then we see a trailer for one of them (maybe Electric Square/Gobo?) that's slated for Q1/Q2 2019.
 
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Zukkoyaki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,291
When you think about the $2.5b they spent on Mojang, and you then realise that it the same net worth of Zenimax.. it's baffling. Zenimax alone would have solved all their first party problems in an instant. Or indeed Valve also has a $2.5b valuation, and they would no longer be competing against Steam on PC.

I just wonder why they wanted Minecraft so much in particular and what the end game was.
The line of thinking is that Minecraft was an investment for Microsoft as a whole, not just Xbox. Whether that makes it a good idea or not is up in the air but that's the logic.
 

Deleted member 5764

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,574
Don't really expect any new studios or acquisitions this year.

They will save all that news for the timing of the next gen.

Basically Xbox Two gets announced at a show. Phil Spencer says something like: and we are pleased to announce a new studio that is working on a major new IP for us.

I feel like we might see news on new studios and acquisitions this year, we just won't see any results. I'm 100% with you now that whatever Microsoft invests in now will be so that they can come out swinging with their next Xbox. I'm honestly not even sure that we'll see another Halo or Gears on the One at this point. That sounds crazy but it's where my head is at right now.
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,215
When you think about the $2.5b they spent on Mojang, and you then realise that it the same net worth of Zenimax.. it's baffling. Zenimax alone would have solved all their first party problems in an instant (it still would). Or indeed Valve also has a $2.5b valuation, and they would no longer be competing against Steam on PC.

I just wonder why they wanted Minecraft so much in particular and what the end game was.
Minecraft is the smartest idea that they ever had. It's probably because you are looking at it from the view of just "gaming"...Minecraft is use in school to teach kids. Then what happens to kids as they grow up...they associate a company with something that they use and like (kids love minecraft). Then they start liking what they company produces. It basically gets the whole next generation of kids to like Microsoft as a whole. Most of those kids are using Windows computers to use Minecraft EDU, gets them used to Windows as well, and that's not far from getting them into Office as they get older. That's way bigger than anything ZeniMax could do. Minecraft was definitely a smart purchase.
 

FlintSpace

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,817
Could it happen that MS hit Eff it, and delays every game that is not announced to next gen 2020 ?

I meant we might only see the release of games MS has shown as of yet and absolutely no new AAA IP this gen. Not even any exclusive second party games. Maybe some timed exclusives third party games. Everything not shown is automatically prepped for E3 2020 where Nov 2020 is new console release.
 

Monty Mole

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
855
I feel like we might see news on new studios and acquisitions this year, we just won't see any results. I'm 100% with you now that whatever Microsoft invests in now will be so that they can come out swinging with their next Xbox. I'm honestly not even sure that we'll see another Halo or Gears on the One at this point. That sounds crazy but it's where my head is at right now.
If that was their strategy, I think they would have skipped X and just focused on jumpstarting the next generation early at the end of 2018, 360-style. That would still be 5 years after the XBO launch. By launching the X in 2017 they're basically dragging this generation out further.
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,215
Could it happen that MS hit Eff it, and delays every game that is not announced to next gen 2020 ?

I meant we might only see the release of games MS has shown as of yet and absolutely no new AAA IP this gen. Not even any exclusive second party games. Maybe some timed exclusives third party games. Everything not shown is automatically prepped for E3 2020 where Nov 2020 is new console release.
What? No.
 

Klobrille

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,360
Germany
Could it happen that MS hit Eff it, and delays every game that is not announced to next gen 2020 ?

I meant we might only see the release of games MS has shown as of yet and absolutely no new AAA IP this gen. Not even any exclusive second party games. Maybe some timed exclusives third party games. Everything not shown is automatically prepped for E3 2020 where Nov 2020 is new console release.
Sunset Overdrive. Ryze. Sea of Thieves. It's not like they aren't trying at all.
 

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,474
Could it happen that MS hit Eff it, and delays every game that is not announced to next gen 2020 ?

I meant we might only see the release of games MS has shown as of yet and absolutely no new AAA IP this gen. Not even any exclusive second party games. Maybe some timed exclusives third party games. Everything not shown is automatically prepped for E3 2020 where Nov 2020 is new console release.

Xbox would be gone tomorrow...
 
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