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mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,841
What if those white liberals are LGBTQ+?

It's not the duty of cis straight PoC to speak up for LGBTQ+ folk?
As much as they can but don't be surprised if they can't.
And it's really not a competition about who has it worse.
I'm not gonna push a LGBTQ+ on a MAGA uncle to make that uncle a little less racist if they're too tired for this shit too.
If we're talking deep canvassing though, do away and put the correct hammer to the correct nail.

I also loved how the shitheads are basically part of the alt-right now,
real effective!
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
I'm currently listening to Joe Rogan's interview with Daryl Davis because I would love to know how he actually "converted" KKK members. It's unfathomable to me. I've heard the whole "he converted 200 KKK members" bit, but I'm a little skeptical.

To me, this kind of stuff only works on "enlightened centrists" who think we should consider Nazis opinions or whatever. But I guess if you're clever enough, you can convince people of anything, maybe even convince them into being more welcoming.
One of the white supremacist he supposedly saved got arrested for being a violent white supremacist in Charlottesville and Davis showed up to plea for mercy for thei white supremacist because he's his friend.

Davis has more animus for BLM than the KKK
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,050
As much as they can but don't be surprised if they can't.
And it's really not a competition about who has it worse.
I'm not gonna push a LGBTQ+ on a MAGA uncle to make that uncle a little less racist if they're too tired for this shit too.
If we're talking deep canvassing though, do away and put the correct hammer to the correct nail.
You're the one who came at me making it a contest and misrepresenting my posts, I'm trying to put this into perspective. If a person has the power, they're the ones that should be speaking up, not the victims.
 

I Don't Like

Member
Dec 11, 2017
14,930
Talking is way down the line and as we've already established minorities should feel no obligation to talk bigots out of bigotry.

We need to outvote bigots, then pass legislation after legislation that combats institutional racism (and all the other -isms). Bigotry is removed over time by interaction and experience.

We didn't try to talk segregationists out of segregation. We legislated and fought it in court. Segregationists had to face the target of their bigotry and racism and now segregated schools or fountains or bathrooms are too racist even for racists.

My problem with Daryl is that he should leave white people thinking, "if Daryl could do this, with the odds completely stacked against him, maybe I put my foot in the ring and try to better the world too?" But instead, I've seen white people use Daryl as an example to throw at people of color. "You should be more like Daryl!" Nah. Wrong takeaway.

Perfectly said. I think in a lot of cases the contempt for his race hasn't changed at all; white supremacists are just thinking, "Now there's a model n****r. If they were all like that we wouldn't be racist!"

Daryl has a savior complex. I think it's plainly obvious when you watch and listen to him speak.
 

Emergency & I

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,634
I've been telling people to read 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' again for the better part of 3-4 years if they want discourse with the other side. This shit isn't hard to figure.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,391
Wasn't this obvious? Like, how are you supposed to change someone's mind by screaming at them about how horrible of a person they are when there's an entire network of people supporting their ideology?
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
Yes I believe I understand why they're resistant. But I'd prefer if people tried to take something more from the article and the science in general than basically nothing at all. You don't have to literally be canvassing in white trash neighborhoods but their must be SOMETHING in your life that this would apply and can help make the world better.

Minorities just need to be able to live their life period dude.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,841
You're the one who came at me making it a contest and misrepresenting my posts, I'm trying to put this into perspective. If a person has the power, they're the ones that should be speaking up, not the victims.
This is basically what I'm saying.
now the way we define "a person has the power" might be up for debate.
I agree unconditionally that it's absolutely not the victims that should be on the frontline.
PoC shouldn't tolerate gender, sexual orientation, etc bigotry and should call it out as strongly as anyone else.
My favorutie part is when he showed up to plea for mercy his friend, who he claims to have saved, who got arrested in Charlottesville for being a violent white supremacist.

Daryl Davis has stronger negative feelings about BLM than the KKK
I mean it's unfair, it's his friend after all!
/s
Like people really think the influence only goes one way
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,141
Do you think in reading this article you would've approached your racist bosses differently looking back on it? Or have you come to the conclusion that they were just a lost cause, at least for you?
They were and are a lost cause. They at most wanted to make sure I had a ride to work since i didn't drive and told me I needed to be careful walking the two miles to get there (close to klan territory). Yet despite liking me enough to not want to see me lynched, became comfortable enough to inform me that in their opinion me dating a white woman was the equivalent to interspecies mixing. There's nothing that I can do to get through to that.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,050
This is basically what I'm saying.
now the way we define "a person has the power" might be up for debate.
I agree unconditionally that it's absolutely not the victims that should be on the frontline.
PoC shouldn't tolerate gender, sexual orientation, etc bigotry and should call it out as strongly as anyone else.
Then we're on the same page.

"Power" is highly subjective and situational, but my point is being a victim of one kind of bigotry doesn't make you powerless to help victims of other kinds.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
Oh crazy I got to reads up


Even so, it was a bit of a shock to see Davis come to Charlottesville to testify on Preston's behalf at a preliminary hearing last December. He said that he'd known Preston for five years, and that he had put up part of Preston's $52,000 cash bond. "I'm testifying because he's my friend," Davis said. "He's in trouble and I'm trying to help."

According to a story on Medium.com, a Klansman who also testified as a character witness for Preston posted after the December hearing that "[t]he ape was a witness [for] Richard and was willing to put up 25000.00 [sic] bucks for his bail. He said he'd take n****rs money and fuck him."

In May, Preston pleaded no contest to the charges.

It wasn't the first time Davis had taken such a stand. I know, in part, because I followed Davis' career for many years as an official of the Southern Poverty Law Center. In fact, I appear as a mild critic of his in a 2016 documentary that aired on PBS, "Accidental Courtesy: Daryl Davis, Race & America."

Davis is no Klansman—he couldn't be, given his skin color. "When two enemies are talking, they're not fighting," he likes to say when explaining what he views as his personal crusade against racism. But when his many relationships with Klan leaders are examined, it's hard not to wonder if he isn't fundamentally aiding and abetting the cause he claims to oppose.

In 2004, Davis appeared at another hearing to testify on behalf of another hardline racial extremist—Chester Doles, the longtime Georgia unit leader for the National Alliance, which was for many years America's most important neo-Nazi group. The group's founding document calls for doing "whatever is necessary" to achieve "a White living space" through "the racial cleansing of the land." "Ultimately," Alliance founder William Pierce wrote elsewhere, "we will win the war only by killing our enemies."

www.thedailybeast.com

The Curious Case of Daryl Davis, the Black Man Befriending Members of the KKK

The intent may be fine. But it’s hard not to wonder if he isn’t fundamentally aiding and abetting the cause he claims to oppose.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,841
Then we're on the same page.

"Power" is highly subjective and situational, but my point is being a victim of one kind of bigotry doesn't make you powerless to help victims of other kinds.
Well, yeah.
Otherwise you end with shit like GoP trying to appeal to PoC by being homophobic or something,
like they're gonna forget that this party want them dead.
 
Jun 10, 2018
8,857
Y'all do this one day before BHM lol
TBF it's really only just one user speaking from a white perspective daring to shame minorities for not having the *gasp* same propensity to weather hatred as he does.

And on top of being white, that user is also in law enforcement, quite possibly the most racially biased institution in the country. But sure, let's all pretend this perspective isn't baked with preconceived notions of sanitizing bigotry.

The way some people think they're slick lol....Kills me every time.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Like, I feel like this talk about converting nazis is missing the mark of the article. I have enough time convincing people in my own party to be less racist/transphobic, let alone the Republican Party. And the real takeaway should be the conversations are better than "spitting facts" and convincing people.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
TBF it's really only just one user speaking from a white perspective daring to shame minorities for not having the *gasp* same propensity to weather hatred as he does.

And on top of being white, that user is also in law enforcement, quite possibly the most racially biased institution in the country. But sure, let's all pretend this perspective isn't baked with preconceived notions of sanitizing bigotry.

The way some people think they're slick lol....Kills me every time.
Damn.
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,944
Here's the thing, yeah?

Minorities should speak their mind, but like, why would you want someone who is seen as "the enemy" to convince the people who see them as "the enemy" that they aren't "the enemy?" That's counterproductive. Wouldn't it mean more coming from someone who they would probably see as an ally?

To be blunt: Saying "hey maybe non-whites should be treated the same as whites" would mean more to a white bigot if it came from a white person rather than a non-white person. I don't think that's even remotely a hot take.
I think so. In fact, i'm certain of it.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
The reason I'm avoiding the point is because I can try to illustrate my thinking but if I directly try to answer your question it'll come off as virtue signaling.

I stand by my pathetic comment in the context of a narrow subset of people, more narrow than my original comment implied: people that shirk the responsibility of engaging with bigots because they're sick of doing it (fine on its own), but then ALSO run in the other direction of calling bigots out with vitriol are pathetic. Why? Because it reveals you were either disingenuous about acknowledging the validity of the science in the first place or more concerned with getting a short-term emotional catharsis of calling someone out then letting the white liberals talking to the racists play out and produce better outcomes.

I think that both those scenarios rise to the level of pathetic. But not all that come out and so no thanks, I'm not interested are pathetic.

The only thing pathetic is the level of judgment and condescension you have for minorities who dare express rage at the source of bigotry we experience every day
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,893
I'm continually amazed by just how spot-on the Buddha was with his teachings 2,500 years ago.

Hatreds never cease through hatred in this world; through love alone they cease. This is an eternal law.

This is, of course, in addition to findings in neuroscience and modern psychology completely validating and supporting his ideas on meditation and the reduction of suffering. I'm actually really surprised there's not a dedicated Buddhist community here, as the philosophy aligns almost perfectly with the type of progressivism that exists on Era (techniques based in science and fact, an ultimate goal of reducing suffering for yourself and the world around you, no emphasis on the supernatural or divine [<--- The Buddha was certainly mythologized in subsequent centuries, and there are of course references to reincarnation and karma in his teachings because that was the culturally accepted view at the time, but those elements are hardly necessary for Buddhist philosophy to still stand tall on its own]).

All of that being said—yeah, this is so much easier said than done. I do truly believe that the amount of anger and hatred many of us feel towards bigots and Trump supporters and xenophobes is, while justified, not going to make anything better for our world in the end. Do racists deserve to have their opinions heard? No, of course not. But only approaching situations by what is deserved vs. what is helpful will just leave us all kicking and screaming in our righteous anger as the world continues to burn. Sure, we can all take satisfaction in knowing we were in the right, but there are higher ideals and purposes we can strive for, despite every instinct in our brain screaming at us over just how wrong it feels to treat people with the type of respect and compassion that they would never afford to minorities or marginalized groups.

I hope this isn't coming across as high and mighty, because I'm right there with the rest of you. I sure as hell can't muster up any inward empathy or loving kindness toward these types of people. But I'm trying to work on that, as impossibly difficult as it is, because justified fury only hurts myself while also not being any sort of avenue of contributing to the greater good. You can still be a fierce defender of human rights without approaching the problem with hatred.

That's why I find Buddhism so inspiring; there has been an actual, concrete example of a person who escaped all the psychological bullshit and pain our minds get caught up in that humanity has had the opportunity to model their behavior after for millennia. And just because the vast majority of practitioners will never reach the same degree of equanimity and mental clarity that the Buddha had, we can sure as hell get a lot closer to it than where we are right now.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
I don't think the thread is above reproach because I'm not directly affected. This is an ad hominem.

You literally walked in called insinuated everyone was in an echo chamber and that we're pathetic


Btw all while trying to claim that the best way to win over people is to not shit on them and attack them.

Weird..... Why didn't you try that?
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
Here's the thing, yeah?

Minorities should speak their mind, but like, why would you want someone who is seen as "the enemy" to convince the people who see them as "the enemy" that they aren't "the enemy?" That's counterproductive. Wouldn't it mean more coming from someone who they would probably see as an ally?

To be blunt: Saying "hey maybe non-whites should be treated the same as whites" would mean more to a white bigot if it came from a white person rather than a non-white person. I don't think that's even remotely a hot take.
In my experience (as a straight white dude), they're even less receptive to those they see as peers. They just see the confrontation as virtue signaling. "Why the hell do you care so much? You're not even [oppressed minority]."

I think the unfortunate reality is that these conversations have far more weight when the other person actually has the background and can speak to the harm of the bigot's beliefs firsthand.

...but it's also true that oppressed minorities should not be expected to do this, and it's wholly understandable that many are sick of it and just want to be left alone. I know that I would fucking never engage if I were in their shoes.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
I'm continually amazed by just how spot-on the Buddha was with his teachings 2,500 years ago.



This is, of course, in addition to findings in neuroscience and modern psychology completely validating and supporting his ideas on meditation and the reduction of suffering. I'm actually really surprised there's not a dedicated Buddhist community here, as the philosophy aligns almost perfectly with the type of progressivism that exists on Era (techniques based in science and fact, an ultimate goal of reducing suffering for yourself and the world around you, no emphasis on the supernatural or divine [<--- The Buddha was certainly mythologized in subsequent centuries, and there are of course references to reincarnation and karma in his teachings because that was the culturally accepted view at the time, but those elements are hardly necessary for Buddhist philosophy to still stand tall on its own]).

All of that being said—yeah, this is so much easier said than done. I do truly believe that the amount of anger and hatred many of us feel towards bigots and Trump supporters and xenophobes is, while justified, not going to make anything better for our world in the end. Do racists deserve to have their opinions heard? No, of course not. But only approaching situations by what is deserved vs. what is helpful will just leave us all kicking and screaming in our righteous anger as the world continues to burn. Sure, we can all take satisfaction in knowing we were in the right, but there are higher ideals and purposes we can strive for, despite every instinct in our brain screaming at us over just how wrong it feels to treat people with the type of respect and compassion that they would never afford to minorities or marginalized groups.

I hope this isn't coming across as high and mighty, because I'm right there with the rest of you. I sure as hell can't muster up any inward empathy or loving kindness toward these types of people. But I'm trying to work on that, as impossibly difficult as it is, because justified fury only hurts myself while also not being any sort of avenue of contributing to the greater good. You can still be a fierce defender of human rights without approaching the problem with hatred.

That's why I find Buddhism so inspiring; there has been an actual, concrete example of a person who escaped all the psychological bullshit and pain our minds get caught up in that humanity has had the opportunity to model their behavior after for millennia. And just because the vast majority of practitioners will never reach the same degree of equanimity and mental clarity that the Buddha had, we can sure as hell get a lot closer to it than where we are right now.
That's...an oversimplification of Buddhism honestly
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,295
I'm continually amazed by just how spot-on the Buddha was with his teachings 2,500 years ago.



This is, of course, in addition to findings in neuroscience and modern psychology completely validating and supporting his ideas on meditation and the reduction of suffering. I'm actually really surprised there's not a dedicated Buddhist community here, as the philosophy aligns almost perfectly with the type of progressivism that exists on Era (techniques based in science and fact, an ultimate goal of reducing suffering for yourself and the world around you, no emphasis on the supernatural or divine [<--- The Buddha was certainly mythologized in subsequent centuries, and there are of course references to reincarnation and karma in his teachings because that was the culturally accepted view at the time, but those elements are hardly necessary for Buddhist philosophy to still stand tall on its own]).

All of that being said—yeah, this is so much easier said than done. I do truly believe that the amount of anger and hatred many of us feel towards bigots and Trump supporters and xenophobes is, while justified, not going to make anything better for our world in the end. Do racists deserve to have their opinions heard? No, of course not. But only approaching situations by what is deserved vs. what is helpful will just leave us all kicking and screaming in our righteous anger as the world continues to burn. Sure, we can all take satisfaction in knowing we were in the right, but there are higher ideals and purposes we can strive for, despite every instinct in our brain screaming at us over just how wrong it feels to treat people with the type of respect and compassion that they would never afford to minorities or marginalized groups.

I hope this isn't coming across as high and mighty, because I'm right there with the rest of you. I sure as hell can't muster up any inward empathy or loving kindness toward these types of people. But I'm trying to work on that, as impossibly difficult as it is, because justified fury only hurts myself while also not being any sort of avenue of contributing to the greater good. You can still be a fierce defender of human rights without approaching the problem with hatred.

That's why I find Buddhism so inspiring; there has been an actual, concrete example of a person who escaped all the psychological bullshit and pain our minds get caught up in that humanity has had the opportunity to model their behavior after for millennia. And just because the vast majority of practitioners will never reach the same degree of equanimity and mental clarity that the Buddha had, we can sure as hell get a lot closer to it than where we are right now.

Yeah Nazi regime was totally defeated with love

Confederates too!

🙄
 

Hasseigaku

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,548
So, in essence, with lots of training and support and motivation due to being paid, some small number of bigots minds can be changed temporarily.

As someone who is possibly well-placed to try and change minds I'm sorry to say I don't have the emotional energy to push that boulder uphill. I barely have the emotional energy to not have a mental breakdown when I think to myself how okay many of the people I work with and am related to are okay with kids in cages and people dying because they can't pay for their medicine.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,893
That's...an oversimplification of Buddhism honestly

Yes, I didn't thoroughly explain a school of thought that's 2,500-years old in a single post :P

There's a lot of nuance, interpretation, and differing approaches within Buddhism (as with any religion or life philosophy). And I myself am by no means an expert. But given how little I ever see Buddhism brought up, I figured it would be most useful to talk about it in broad strokes since it seems like a lot of people here aren't really familiar with it.

Yeah Nazi regime was totally defeated with love

Confederates too!

🙄
That's not quite how I understand Buddhism. Self-defense or protecting the innocent is acceptable as a last resort. This is more about the most helpful mindset in approaching these ways of advancing righteous causes than it is about taking legitimate options (such as, sometimes, necessary violence) off the table.

Also, very few of us our soldiers who will need to fight in a future bloody war. Just on a personal level, as a singular individual, I've never come across a philosophy that's as conducive for personal growth and the lessening of pain and suffering as Buddhism.

I'm not trying to be preachy—I just genuinely believe it could be a helpful avenue for a lot of us miserable, angry, depressed people on Era (myself included), and I rarely see it discussed here as a legitimate path toward improving mental health or approaching the problems of the world at large.

And I'm certainly not trying to downplay the pain and anger that understandably exists in the current political climate, so I hope that isn't how this is coming across. I feel upset and hopeless about it on a near-constant basis, and I'm not even a minority. I can't even imagine how much more difficult it is for people who are more directly impacted by some of these toxic policies and attitudes that exist in our society. Please don't at all interpret any of this as trying to undermine those experiences or flippantly saying some trite "just rise above it!" platitude. I'm only trying to be helpful by presenting another option some people around here probably haven't considered, that's all.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
4,511
Who'd have thought if Hitler had a sit-down-and-talk sesh, maybe he wouldn't have committed some of the most horrific atrocities in the history of man.

And that's even running on the assumption that the cited research is accurate. A cursory glance and all I found was that they tested this for homophobia in 2016, and then for transphobia and immigration policies in the more recent one. I dunno. It's not like science articles (especially in psychology / social studies) have been shown to be kinda bullshitty after the fact or anything
 

ISOM

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,684
I feel the biggest proponents of this argument probably wouldn't confront the racists in their own immediate circle. So I find it a bit ridiculous and disengenous that they want those who have been dehumanized and treated in vile ways by these racist and bigots should then just pick up themselves, ignore all the psychological and physical violence and just appease these people in the nicest way possible so that they can maybe possible treat others like human beings.
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,383
From what I recall, it didn't stick, which would be in line with what the article mentioned. This particular deep canvassing method seemed to work for at least 6 months though.

Seems it'd at least be good for political campaigns down the stretch. It doesn't work on most, but moving the needle several points with the right timing would make a big difference in who is making decisions.

It also would take a certain type of personality. Not everyone can play temporary therapist to white supremecists and other bigots.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,249
People love this faiy tale of the humble minority educating the bigoty. But it is just that, we are tired, and broken and the white sumprancy deserves more "Be nice to us or we turn the race traitors against you". Keep thinking all they need is a hug, it's not your blood being spilled, it's not your children dying, it's not your 400 years of getting fucked.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,050
I feel the biggest proponents of this argument probably wouldn't confront the racists in their own immediate circle. So I find it a bit ridiculous and disengenous that they want those who have been dehumanized and treated in vile ways by these racist and bigots should then just pick up themselves, ignore all the psychological and physical violence and just appease these people in the nicest way possible so that they can maybe possible treat others like human beings.
I've had this conversation a few times now with people who call victims out for their "non-productive anger", and they've always been cis white people. And when asked if they do anything to help combat ignorance and bigotry, they either duck out or literally say something like "not my fight".

So yeh, I'm certain some of the people here are doing exactly what you suggest.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,249
From what I recall, it didn't stick, which would be in line with what the article mentioned. This particular deep canvassing method seemed to work for at least 6 months though.

Seems it'd at least be good for political campaigns down the stretch. It doesn't work on most, but moving the needle several points with the right timing would make a big difference in who is making decisions.

It also would take a certain type of personality. Not everyone can play temporary therapist to white supremecists and other bigots.
People love Daryl Davis, but they always leave out the part where the people he "saved" were at charlotteville shooting at black people or how he looked BLM activists in a eye and told them to suck a dick.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,249
This thread is why i say i don't believe in allies, are they really an allie if they constantly want you to surrender your humanity cause it is the quickest way to order? Not peace, but order, an order that benefits everyone but the marginalized.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,677
When people figure out what you're doing they will just immediately shut it down, if anything like this did become widespread. The only thing that works is people have to not want to hate anymore and there are a lot of people who run on hate.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,295
This thread is why i say i don't believe in allies, are they really an allie if they constantly want you to surrender your humanity cause it is the quickest way to order? Not peace, but order, an order that benefits everyone but the marginalized.
When people figure out what you're doing they will just immediately shut it down, if anything like this did become widespread. The only thing that works is people have to not want to hate anymore and there are a lot of people who run on hate.

I mean, the dumbest shit about all of this is everyone preaching that "it works"

If it did, then why are we in this mess in 2020?

Why do you have millions supporting a bigot criminal who thinks he's above the rule of law....

With such a vigor simply based of his whiteness

200+ years with no results. Like people haven't tried this route ever in the past.

So it's just extra dumb as fuck to see all these people in the thread beating a dead horse as if it's the answer now in modern times.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,249
I mean, the dumbest shit about all of this is everyone preaching that "it works"

If it did, then why are we in this mess in 2020?

Why do you have millions supporting a bigot criminal who thinks he's above the rule of law....

With such a vigor simply based of his whiteness

200+ years with no results. Like people haven't tried this route ever in the past.

So it's just extra dumb as fuck to see all these people in the thread beating a dead horse as if it's the answer now in modern times.
Crazy thing is people acting brand new about. Look at reconstruction, first time black people got into government, and the north let the south lynch them right out of it because they didn't want the south to suffer the shame of follow laws made by black people. Jim Crow black people made their own towns and doing their own thing keeping out of the way of white people. They were burned, bombed, and killed cause they had the arrganonce of living happy successful lives.
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,383
I think some are not reading the whole article. Their study shows this doesn't work most of the time, and when it does, it's likely short term. No one should be acting like this is some cure all silver bullet. It's not a "love will save the day" confirmation. It's more a "here's a possibly more effective technique for canvassers to use to sell people on progressive polices before an election" thing.
 

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,279
I mean, the dumbest shit about all of this is everyone preaching that "it works"

If it did, then why are we in this mess in 2020?

Why do you have millions supporting a bigot criminal who thinks he's above the rule of law....

With such a vigor simply based of his whiteness

200+ years with no results. Like people haven't tried this route ever in the past.

So it's just extra dumb as fuck to see all these people in the thread beating a dead horse as if it's the answer now in modern times.
Shittt, I better see everyone in this thread advocating for it in all racist/bigotry related threads. Shouldn't be too hard for them because it's so easy to do
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
This is presented as hopeful, but the best solution to racism being extreme amounts of emotional labor from whatever saintly people are capable of it, converting people one-by-one, with a decent but certainly not universal success rate, is a pretty rough reality. There is no scalable, systemic solution. Maybe you can look to ways to reduce educational and housing segregation to make these personal interactions more likely, but that's kind of it. Other than that, it's just arduous conversion, one-by-one, to make each generation incrementally better than the next. The best that's possible is what we already knew was possible.
I wouldn't necessarily say there's no systemic solution since the actual study was done systemically in the first place. The issue is that people aren't understanding that such efforts need to be coordinated and funded. If there was a SuperPAC or something that did this empathetic canvassing the same way people canvas for political candidates, then you could definitely make a dent imo.

That's work though, not just telling minorities to be nicer to bigots. Any discussion about what individual people should be doing in their day to days is completely misreading the study and what was performed.
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
I mean, the dumbest shit about all of this is everyone preaching that "it works"

If it did, then why are we in this mess in 2020?

Why do you have millions supporting a bigot criminal who thinks he's above the rule of law....

With such a vigor simply based of his whiteness

200+ years with no results. Like people haven't tried this route ever in the past.

So it's just extra dumb as fuck to see all these people in the thread beating a dead horse as if it's the answer now in modern times.

They don't want to do the work. They don't want to have the awkward family dinners. They don't want to have to challenge family members. They don't want to have to challenge their friends. It's peak white fragility, breh. They out here acting like the solution the whole time was for us just to be nice to racists because then they don't have to acknowledge it's them and their friends and family that's the problem.

Racists keep being racists because white people keep showing them they'll look just look the other way and ignore it when it's happening.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
People love this faiy tale of the humble minority educating the bigoty. But it is just that, we are tired, and broken and the white sumprancy deserves more "Be nice to us or we turn the race traitors against you". Keep thinking all they need is a hug, it's not your blood being spilled, it's not your children dying, it's not your 400 years of getting fucked.

I think people talking about minorities having to listen to the whining of KKK members is dumb, but, like, there's plenty of shit to do with people that fall on the democratic side as well. Even this site isn't free of racism/anti-LGBT shit.