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Next gen PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Secret sauces spicing 2019

When will the first 'next gen' console be revealed?

  • First half of 2019

    Votes: 593 15.6%

  • Second half of 2019(let's say post E3)

    Votes: 1,361 35.9%

  • First half of 2020

    Votes: 1,675 44.2%

  • 2021 :^)

    Votes: 161 4.2%
  • Total voters
    3,790
  • Poll closed .
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Jenea

Jenea

Banned
Mar 14, 2018
1,568
Fastidioso said:
The cheaper should be just a stream box from we knew.
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But streaming doesn't need a dedicated hw, that's the point. It seems that X cloud (or how the xbox service streaming will be called), will be available on anything, including smartphones, tv sets, etc. It has to be available even on xbox one s and x, and ps now is available on ps4.

DukeBlueBall said:
Answer is that Zen CPU will make the X and S obsolete.
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And what about the price for the cheapest next-gen model ? Is it going to be cheaper than X ? Is it going to be much powerfull than X ? Are they going to support the old systems with new games or not ? Many things seems unclear.
 
Jenea

Jenea

Banned
Mar 14, 2018
1,568
TheTruthofKayle said:
The less expansive is needed to compete with PS5 ...very likely PS5 will fight with Lockhart ...not with anaconda but I suspect that they (Ms) wanna cut the price eating loss
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By competing , are you assuming that ps5 and Lockheart will cost the same ? In this case, what will be the price for Anaconda, 699 Us dollars ? ))
 
VX1

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,005
Europe
BreakAtmo said:
Neither of these situations apply to the PS5, so it's entirely possible that it will have a higher BoM that could go into things like a better cooling system allowing for higher clocks if needed
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Possible,yes,but not very likely i think.
On the other hand,i expect that from MS with Anaconda.
 
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nolifebr

nolifebr

Banned
Sep 1, 2018
11,465
Curitiba/BR
Sony may have invested in the development, but it does not mean it will be exclusive. Apple did the same with Vega according to some people.
 
Fastidioso

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
nolifebr said:
Sony may have invested in the development, but it does not mean it will be exclusive. Apple did the same with Vega according to some people.
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So Sony give to AMD the feedback to see the xbox use it too? Forgive me but knowing them sounds absurd. Probably the next xbox will use another custom apu with the MS specific feedbacks like this thread mentioned in the OP.
 
TheTruthofKayle

TheTruthofKayle

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
2,877
Jenea said:
It could be, but you forgot about X. Two consoles, aprox. the same price (X in 2020 let's say and Lochart), but the second one is more powerfull and the true nextgen. Doesn't make sense to me.
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The x will go away when we got Lockhart and Anaconda
Both Lockhart and Anaconda will be next gen ...same CPU but with different GPU ..probably ram and clocks
I suspect that lockhart will try to compete with PS5 having close-by performance for little bit less money
Anaconda will be the high end console of the market as is the X ..now
Then there will be the streaming machine for the entry level market ...with of course cheap price
 
Jenea

Jenea

Banned
Mar 14, 2018
1,568
TheTruthofKayle said:
The x will go away when we got Lockhart and Anaconda
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What do you mean by going away ?
Will Microsoft stop the production of x and s and won't sell them anymore or what ?

TheTruthofKayle said:
Then there will be the streaming machine for the entry level market ...with of course cheap price
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Why do you need to buy a streaming machine when streaming implies you don't need a dedicated hw for it ? Just buy a gamepad and you are good to go.
 

M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
Fastidioso said:
So Sony give to AMD the feedback to see the xbox use it too? Forgive me but knowing them sounds absurd. Probably the next xbox will use another custom apu with the MS specific feedbacks like this thread mentioned in the OP.
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You're confusing Navi, the overall architecture that will be used as the basis for a number of products and the specific implementation of Navi that will appear in the PS5. They are two distinct things. AMD's mid-range PC offerings this year will also be based on the Navi architecture.
 
TheTruthofKayle

TheTruthofKayle

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
2,877
Jenea said:
Now i got confused. You say Microsoft won't sell X and S after next-gen starts, but at the same time you say it will support xcloud games. Doesn't make sense.
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Probably the first year of launch they will cut the price of the X and sell it as entry level.... the S model will be removed immediately from the market ...after that the X will receive xcloud for the existing users (Ms main goals are the subs not the consoles) but the console itself will not be sold anymore and ...on the market you will find just Lockhart and anaconda
 
anexanhume

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,918
Maryland
TheTruthofKayle said:
This could explain Ms Arcturus rumors
But I would bet both using Navi with proprietary customization
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This is another mess because we have confirmation from an AMD engineer that Arcturus is a product (e.g. Vega 20), and not an architecture.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ao4giq/comment/efy7104?st=JRUZTRDS&sh=3514de48

Arcturus is not a new architecture, just the first GPU in the development pipeline where we are using Linux-specific code names for GPUs in the open source drivers to avoid any conflict/confusion with the eventual marketing names.
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This is why we knew the latest Xbox "leak" with Arcturus named was a bunk rumor.
 

Deleted member 5764

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,574
I am of the firm belief that Microsoft's next-gen Xbox plans be as follows:

- Scarlett Pro (Anaconda) - Targets native 4K resolution
- Scarlett base (Lockhart) Targets 1080p with 4K upscaling
- All next-gen first party games can be streamed (at 1080p max resolution) via Game Pass (XCloud back-end service makes it all possible) on mobile devices and Xbox One hardware

I'm too lazy/uninformed to take a crack at the exact specs, but I think this is what we'll see conceptually.
 
Jenea

Jenea

Banned
Mar 14, 2018
1,568
TheTruthofKayle said:
Probably the first year of launch they will cut the price of the X and sell it as entry level.
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By how much ? In 2019 the X costs 500 bucks. Let's suppose next-gen arrives in 2020 (the most possible option). What will be the discount in a year ? 200 hundred dollars, so they will sell it for 300 ? Seems unrealistic to me.

TheTruthofKayle said:
the S model will be removed immediately from the market
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While Sony will sell ps4 for 200, Microsoft will kill it's main competitor, One S. This also seems unrealistic to me.

I do find logic in Sony moves (let's say slim for 200 bucks, pro for 300, ps5 for 500 bucks in 2020), but i don't see how Microsoft will fit in the market all 5 consoles, going by the rumours. Xbox One S, X, Lockhart, Anaconda and that streaming box. KIlling the first two doesn't sound like a good idea at all.
 
TheTruthofKayle

TheTruthofKayle

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
2,877
Jenea said:
By how much ? In 2019 the X costs 500 bucks. Let's suppose next-gen arrives in 2020 (the most possible option). What will be the discount in a year ? 200 hundred dollars, so they will sell it for 300 ? Seems unrealistic to me.


While Sony will sell ps4 for 200, Microsoft will kill it's main competitor, One S. This also seems unrealistic to me.

I do find logic in Sony moves (let's say slim for 200 bucks, pro for 300, ps5 for 500 bucks in 2020), but i don't see how Microsoft will fit in the market all 5 consoles, going by the rumours. Xbox One S, X, Lockhart, Anaconda and that streaming box. KIlling the first two doesn't sound like a good idea at all.
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Uhm now that you making me thinking at it .....probably you right maybe they will pull out from the market the X then....seeing it too close with Lockhart price ?
Lockhart and Anaconda are both nextgen and is very plausible that Lockhart will cost more than 300 (i don't see a Ryzen2+Navi gpu at less than that)
 

cooldawn

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,454
Ōkami Haundo said:
I am of the firm belief that Microsoft's next-gen Xbox plans be as follows:

- Scarlett Pro (Anaconda) - Targets native 4K resolution
- Scarlett base (Lockhart) Targets 1080p with 4K upscaling
- All next-gen first party games can be streamed (at 1080p max resolution) via Game Pass (XCloud back-end service makes it all possible) on mobile devices and Xbox One hardware

I'm too lazy/uninformed to take a crack at the exact specs, but I think this is what we'll see conceptually.
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Yeah...that's about how I see it playing out too.

I think the talk of Microsoft being the only platform holder to go nuts on a performance unit with Anaconda is balls. I think Sony's main and only platform will compete toe-to-toe with 4K. I'd be surprised if Sony have a second SKU, they'll just have a jack-of-all-trades platform.
 
OnPorpoise

OnPorpoise

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,301
VX1 said:
Possible,yes,but not very likely i think.
On the other hand,i expect that from MS with Anaconda.
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Sony and MS do react to each other, it's really tough to say how Sony might tweak their approach given the mid-gen shift MS has gone through.

I'm all for being conservative in our estimates, but it's likely just as inaccurate to generically transpose clockspeeds and design decisions from one generation to the next until we get some better leaks.
 
TheTruthofKayle

TheTruthofKayle

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
2,877
cooldawn said:
Yeah...that's about how I see it playing out too.

I think the talk of Microsoft being the only platform holder to go nuts on a performance unit with Anaconda is balls. I think Sony's main and only platform will compete toe-to-toe with 4K. I'd be surprised if Sony have a second SKU, they'll just have a jack-of-all-trades platform.
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If they go 399 it will cannot compete ...if it goes 499 probably ...but is very unlikely knowing Cerny and sony
 

Deleted member 30077

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,275
anexanhume said:
There is no efficiency gap. That chart is a perf/Watt chart. Undervolting and underclocking is certainly applicable to consoles when comparing since they do that by default to save on power consumption and improve perf/Watt.
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Who's talking about consoles? You made a statement about 7nm Vega matching Nvidia's performance/watt, which is just not the case according to the very graph you posted. I'm seeing a 38% difference between stock cards. Only by undervolting was that specific chip able to match a stock Nvidia card. But the next chip might not be able to undervolt at all as the stock voltage is obviously the minimum standard for binning.

Also do you think you can't increase performance/watt by undervolting Nvidia cards? Comparing tweaked cards with stock cards is pretty silly. It's a very unfair comparison. Based on your graph I can tell you, ceteris paribus a Turing console would have better performance/watt than a 7nm Vega console.

There's no such thing as undervolting on consoles. You have a voltage target for binning and higher quality chips just run at the same voltage as chips that barely pass the standard. Undervolting is taking advantage of a higher quality chip to increase performance/watt. Obviously that means there's a ton of variance in results when you overclock, undervolt or do both at the same time. Better chips will undervolt better. It's not something you can do for a mass produced chip. If they set their voltage target too aggressive for performance/watt then that results in a bunch of failed chips. I think the X1X uses better binned chips to a degree though.

Edit: Or I can just quote the original article you posted "Damit arbeitet Nvidias Turing zwar immer noch 30 bis 40 Prozent effizienter, allerdings liegt AMD nicht mehr um Welten in dieser Disziplin zurück. ".
 
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Intersect

Intersect

Banned
Nov 5, 2017
451
Fastidioso said:
Navi is a Sony exclusive.
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That's been pretty much debunked. Unless the PS5 is a chiplet design, which is also not likely, there are only two reasons for Sony's involvement in Navi.

1) Sony and AMD want to insure developers can easily port between consoles and PCs.
2) Sony wants to insure features are in Navi dGPUs they plan to use. These features will be in a Console APU in any case as Console APUs are semi-custom to Sony specs. Possibles are:

1) AI up-scaler
2) DRM security
3) Able to efficiently support Software codecs
4) VR accelerator taking the game depthmap to help create the second frame for 3D.
5) Game streaming hardware codec is DRM protected and available for media streaming/transcoding (digital bridge).
 

jobboy

Member
Mar 24, 2018
196
You all "understimate the power of Playstation"... Sony is strongly involved in navi design, investing money and resources; hence they are aware of the importance of a stronger gpu.
 

eathdemon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,690
Intersect said:
That's been pretty much debunked. Unless the PS5 is a chiplet design, which is also not likely, there are only two reasons for Sony's involvement in Navi.

1) Sony and AMD want to insure developers can easily port between consoles and PCs.
2) Sony wants to insure features are in Navi dGPUs they plan to use. These features will be in a Console APU in any case as Console APUs are semi-custom to Sony specs. Possibles are:

1) AI up-scaler
2) DRM security
3) Able to efficiently support Software codecs
4) VR accelerator taking the game depthmap to help create the second frame for 3D.
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for sony I expect a monalithic chip, for ms though a chiplet setup makes sense, but we will see.
 
anexanhume

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,918
Maryland
napata said:
Who's talking about consoles? You made a statement about 7nm Vega matching Nvidia's performance/watt, which is just not the case according to the very graph you posted. I'm seeing a 38% difference between stock cards. Only by undervolting was that specific chip able to match a stock Nvidia card. But the next chip might not be able to undervolt at all as the stock voltage is obviously the minimum standard for binning.

Also do you think you can't increase performance/watt by undervolting Nvidia cards? Comparing tweaked cards with stock cards is pretty silly. It's a very unfair comparison. Based on your graph I can tell you, ceteris paribus a Turing console would have better performance/watt than a 7nm Vega console.

There's no such thing as undervolting on consoles. You have a voltage target for binning and higher quality chips just run at the same voltage as chips that barely pass the standard. Undervolting is taking advantage of a higher quality chip to increase performance/watt. Obviously that means there's a ton of variance in results when you overclock, undervolt or do both at the same time. Better chips will undervolt better. It's not something you can do for a mass produced chip. If they set their voltage target too aggressive for performance/watt then that results in a bunch of failed chips. I think the X1X uses better binned chips to a degree though.

Edit: Or I can just quote the original article you posted "Damit arbeitet Nvidias Turing zwar immer noch 30 bis 40 Prozent effizienter, allerdings liegt AMD nicht mehr um Welten in dieser Disziplin zurück. ".
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You are either looking at the 14nm Vega 64 numbers, or the stock Vega VII numbers. Look at the 7nm Vega VII undervolt numbers.

Nowhere did I state AMD had somehow gained an efficiency advantage compared to Nvidia. The point was to show the efficiency gains possible with 7nm, and that undervolting shows a usage scenario more likely for consoles. Of course a console won't use the settings for a 300W TDP card.
 
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