I'm thinking later, 2023. Though I'm not sure if the patents suggest anything earlier. I expect it to be worlds above current psvr, of course.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)
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Why do you think it will increase the price?
What’s Next For High Bandwidth Memory
Different approaches for breaking down the memory wall.
semiengineering.com
Sony doesn't need HBM2E but HBM2 is enough because it is 4 stack, 4 stack at 1.6 Gbps is a fucking 820 GB/s.
If they use only 8 GB of HBM2 like in the reddit rumor it is only 60 dollars + the package price but with info_MS no interposer. And 16 GB of DDR4 3200 is "cheap" probably 1.5 to 2 dollars per GB for a very high volume.
The rumor:
1.7GBps with 4 stack gives a crazy 870 GB/s and a cumulated bandwidth of 972.4 GB/s.
EDIT: And custom does not mean more expensive, there are tons of things in an NVME controller not needed for a console for example. Or in the patent, they told the replacement of DRAM by SRAM for address translation table decrease the cost.
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Fair enough.
I don't want to make it seem like a certainty. I'm just bullish on it being HBM.
While price would be a key part to that transition, I don't think it is solely tied to price. They are probably considering how their launch lineup will look (which will probably be the strongest it has ever been for a PS console) along with other factors. Also, what period would they be looking at? Are they just talking about the first few months? The first year? The second year? Depending on what time frame they are looking at, they could sell less the first year and then sell more the second year (after price cuts and more games) and perform better than PS4 comparatively.
I just think it is a more involved than what it appears to be.
and i think i just lost all faith in this rumor. if the advantages were really this big, both in terms of price, performance and tdp savings, MS wouldve gone with hbm as well. the fact they didnt is proof that its not ready for consoles yet.
But why 16GB of DDR4?
Besides,as anexanhume said the other day, we didn't hear a word from Sony about that Super slim 7nm by Samsung PS4 and the guy who posted that on reddit deleted his account,so...
The thing is that $499 price would mean that Sony started designing years ago PS5 with that price point in mind.Everything we know about what Sony did with PS4,Pro, and this entire for them most profitable console generation ever, tells us otherwise.
Awful screen. Tracking was something that I wasn't impressed with. If the goal was simply to be "good enough", it wasn't met in my eyes.
I understand that they released it to get their foot in the door and to see if it's worth it in the long run, kudos, but it just wasn't a good product to me.
And no, I'm not saying that VR is a gimmick and needs to go away.
That site says the SSD will have 2GB/s. I'm saying Sony's SSD will be faster than that. This is just based on how much Sony has been promoting their SSD. The Godfall devs calling it, "exceptionally powerful", etc... I think the SSD is one area Sony has invested a lot of time and effort into.
I don't see how what they did with a previous generation informs us of their overall hardware strategy for a new generation. This is a whole new ball game.
Many reasons
One being every Dignital Foundry pointing out how one product is consistently superior over another, the free publicity it generates matters to both Sony and Microsoft
The other reason being maybe want to please developers by giving them tools they require to push gaming forward.
Price is important but don't think that people at Sony including their first party developers and Mark Cerny somewhat don't care or lack ambition to put out excellent hardware out there. Both companies will want the power crown, the question is just how far are they willing push the price and from the looks of it they are going for the same price point.
As i said,they just had the most successful and profitable console gen ever.They had a brilliant execution from start in 2013 to finish in 2020.Why should they change their winning strategy?That doesn't make any sense.
I wouldn't go that far but I expect Hellblade II to still be one of the best looking games by the end of next gen because it will probably be quite linear when compared to the other full sized open World games so be able to really focus on micro details a bit like how The Order is still one of the best looking PS4 exclusives four years on and why Luigi's Mansion 3 is the best looking Switch game by far.
PSVR screen had less screen door effect than other headsets which came at this time.
Tracking is not perfect but it's ok for most games and for next gen, Sony will for sure not use the same tracking technology...
They will try to push the medium and I don't see a reason to think that PSVR2 can not compete with actual headsets xD
I was recently reading an article in the Harvard Business Review on how companies with large market shares tend to keep to their winning business strategies because once they've achieved saturation then the cost for changing their formula outweighs the benefit of doing so. They're not going to ignore what worked for them.
Average console owner doesn't know what is Digital Foundry and doesn't care.They just want affordable console to play next gen games ( btw,that's why there is a huge potential for cheap Lockhart ).Tech enthusiasts like us on gaming forums know and watch it with interest but we don't represent mass market in any way.
Honestly you could be right DS but I'm just giving my reading of what Sony have done this gen with PS4 (leaving aside Pro for now) and what they seem to have prepared for with next-gen.
I did mean higher than $399 Tonky. Again though I'm not ruling out they go with $499 but then IMO Jim Ryan's words fall flat for me and make zero sense. Games won't be enough if the console is priced too high. At least outside of the 5% hardcore crowd.
Of course we aren't sure that info is true.
But if it is then something might have changed over time. 16GB DDR4 was used for lower cost but now it becomes 16GB HBM2. And 7nm PS4 would be delayed to compete against Lockhart.
hence based on Sony PR and money hatted devs, good sources I must say
From everything MS has said and done so far Series X is clearly the main platform..not to mention, other than rumors we don't even know what Lockhart is, how it will work or when it will launch.
the key word in that article is "heard". it is not 100% correct. Godfall devs that are making an exclusive game for ps5 are obviously going to say good things like "exceptionally powerful". Then you have a neutral source saying they are nearly identical. i know which i would rather believe.
Chances are both NVME SSD's will be supplied by the same company and will be pretty much identical. Read speeds included. Just because they talk a bit more about it doesn't mean its any different.
You're implying things stay the same from gen to gen. They don't.
We can agree to disagree.
I would have to agree but I also understand DriftingSpirit argument. One question I have is whether you think consumers (outside of the enthusiasts) would generally be more willing, less willing, or the equally willing to pay for a higher priced console in 2020 than in 2013? And this doesn't just go for consoles, I'd like to know whether there is an answer for this in consumer electronics in general.
I have a feeling people think about 1X when they say $499 is "just fine". But 1X is an enthusiast console,their mass market console is 1S.
Besides, XB1 launched at $499,yes, but they had to ditch Kinect and cut the price pretty fast in Feb.2014 already,just 3 months after launch,cause their sales significantly slowed down.
I don't think HBM or the existence of a Super Slim being a possibility depends on a random person on Reddit.
That same sony PR told us a quantifyable figure for the SSD, higher read bandwidth than anything on PC, for its time that would mean over 3.5GB/s read bandwidth, and thanks to the latest article where a comapny heavily modified an SSD in similar ways to what the stuff sony researched and saved costs by half and tripled the write bandwidth, i wont be surprised if we see a similar thing happen with the PS5
No idea but 4 GB for OS and 12 GB for dev. After things change but I think Sony will have a memory architecture different than the Xbox Series X.
The answer is no.And that's the reason why Lockhart exists: MS knows very well that $499 ( Series X) is simply too high for a mass market console.
Didn't the mods specifically warn against posting or mentioning gaf "indiders"
If such person is an insider they can get verified here and post, otherwise we have no reason to take anything they say with any more weight than any pastebin.
The XB1 had a terrible launch. I don't think that is the best gauge for a $499 price point.
It was too specific to be anything else, because he hasn't given a nod to any Sony final number that was thrown around and they have had all sorts of ranges. He just said that it wasn't 10.something
It could also be a short term loss to long term benefit? Sony might be willing to take the hit initially.
and i think i just lost all faith in this rumor. if the advantages were really this big, both in terms of price, performance and tdp savings, MS wouldve gone with hbm as well. the fact they didnt is proof that its not ready for consoles yet.
The initial investment in HBM is expensive but as HBM3 and the mass scale is produced - the price can fall dramatically eventually hitting a point where its far below GDDR6.
Perhaps Microsoft wasn't willing to do so?
As i said there is a good reason why Lockhart exists : $499 is simply too much for a mass market console and MS knows that very well. Enthusiasts,like us here, will buy $499 console but huge part of mass market simply won't.They want to play next gen games but they want affordable console.
yeah the same Sony PR that overhyped FP16 support making it out like it was more powerful than the X.
did that sony PR give you hard number? nope. You dont know if the reference base was 3.5GB/s in their PR heads.
Or they just have a different plan and strategy.
I think that is more because of Microsoft's own hardware issues. They aren't sure the top unit will go as far as they would like it to.
Sony's hardware has a way bigger market to sell to, however, and they sold 100M+ units this gen. What MS is doing with hardware isn't reflective of what Sony is doing and vice versa.
Remember that going HBM would also mean betting on a memory that had a ridiculous cost back at the design stage, unsure whether its prices will drop like projected.
and i think i just lost all faith in this rumor. if the advantages were really this big, both in terms of price, performance and tdp savings, MS wouldve gone with hbm as well. the fact they didnt is proof that its not ready for consoles yet.
Okay tell me this.
How can the reference base be lower than 3.5GB/s when they literally said "higher read bandwidth than ANY SSD on PC"
EDIT : i apologize for the double post
I'm in the UK and to be fair the more casual players I know are actually much more aware of the gaming forums like this and the likes of DF. They still don't really care much about the ins and outs like we do. SM probably is the main driver with this. Both the Wired articles for PS5 made my local radio news too.
The last 2 consoles that went on sale >£400 both very quickly had a change of heart and reduced price. PS3 went from £425 to £299 in 6 months. I'm actually curious to see a next-gen console come in >£400 just to see if it is tolerated more today.
For PS5, consumers are likely willing to pay because SONY has very strong exclusives and very famous "PlayStation" brand.
Indeed,cause it was affordable mas market console. $499 PS4 wouldn't sell 100M+ units.
Why are we basing things on past designs and not future ones that consoles will be based on? Wasn't there a leak of 80CU GPU?
We have seen how bad AMD cards are in thermals with anything above 1600mhz, more cu at lower frequency and process shrink will produce less heat than trying to push high frequency.
I highly doubt that Sony is doing 1800-2000MHz, more likely 64cu with 4 disabled and doing 1600 while MS is currently doing 1475MHz.
From past designs like Pro and X models had lower clocks and more CU than equivalent offerings.
Going for top of the line GPUs didn't make sense as they had no access to CPU to match.
Why not? 499 just means more opportunities to drop price later. Ps4 dropped to 299 after 3 years and didnt have another permanent price cut since
I had no idea the HBM2 rumor included a 256-bit bus for the DDR4. That's insane, 256-bit bus + HBM2 bus? At the same cost they could have had more than 382-bit bus for GDDR6. Combine that with the PS4 slim 7nm that never came out and we can put that rumor to rest.
I'm not saying that Sony does or doesn't have HBM2 in the PS5, just that his rumor is probably false.
https://www.techspot.com/review/1893-pcie-4-vs-pcie-3-ssd/
this is down to pcie 4.0 and not some sort of magical invention sony has made. this could be in both XSX and PS5. no one knows yet.
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