You want to leave nin's death to Jman, but you also don't trust his claim?
Nier: Gestalt Mafia IOTI: Weiss you dumbass! Start making sense and play mafia!!!
- Thread starter lokiduck
- Start date
You want to leave nin's death to Jman, but you also don't trust his claim?
I've not mentioned a lot of people so a brief listing of all the players. Some of these might be way off once I reread at some point.
TOWN
Razmos
Reki
Aeleus
MrHedin
SalvaPot
Hagi
Stantastic
Vincent Alexander
Lone_Prodigy
jman1954goat
Stove
nin
TheChuggernaut
SCUM
Thoughts have changed since I last posted. Working on being better at posting today as things change. I want to lynch nin but after yesterday was so laser focused on Sparks, I don't want the same to happen today despite this being bigger with an actual red check. If Jman is telling the truth, they should follow their heart and not push the responsibility onto town.
TOWN
Razmos
Reki
Aeleus
MrHedin
SalvaPot
Hagi
Stantastic
Vincent Alexander
Lone_Prodigy
jman1954goat
Stove
nin
TheChuggernaut
SCUM
Thoughts have changed since I last posted. Working on being better at posting today as things change. I want to lynch nin but after yesterday was so laser focused on Sparks, I don't want the same to happen today despite this being bigger with an actual red check. If Jman is telling the truth, they should follow their heart and not push the responsibility onto town.
OP
OP
==== DAY 3 VOTES ====
Day Start
nin (3 votes)
MrHedin - #1,357
Vincent Alexander - #1,375
Hagi - #1,435
Kalor - #1,444 #1,610
Aeleus - #1,482 #1,486
Vincent Alexander (1 votes)
Stantastic - #1,378
Hagi (1 votes)
TheChuggernaut - #1,355
Vincent Alexander - #1,366 #1,375
nin - #1,420 #1,424
SalvaPot (1 votes)
Fanto - #1,347
TheChuggernaut (1 votes)
Kalor - #1,610
jman1954goat (0 votes)
Stove - #1,365 #1,591
Lone_Prodigy (0 votes)
Fanto - #1,336 #1,347
Not voting: Reki, Lone_Prodigy, jman1954goat, nin, Aeleus, SalvaPot, Razmos, Stove
Post Counts:
nin: 59 jman1954goat: 38 Fanto: 29 Stantastic: 29 Aeleus: 27 Razmos: 24 Hagi: 22 Vincent Alexander: 19 TheChuggernaut: 19 Lone_Prodigy: 10 MrHedin: 9 SalvaPot: 9 Reki: 6 Stove: 6 Kalor: 4
Current Countdown:
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
Day Start
nin (3 votes)
MrHedin - #1,357
Vincent Alexander - #1,375
Hagi - #1,435
Vincent Alexander (1 votes)
Stantastic - #1,378
Hagi (1 votes)
TheChuggernaut - #1,355
SalvaPot (1 votes)
Fanto - #1,347
TheChuggernaut (1 votes)
Kalor - #1,610
jman1954goat (0 votes)
Lone_Prodigy (0 votes)
Not voting: Reki, Lone_Prodigy, jman1954goat, nin, Aeleus, SalvaPot, Razmos, Stove
Post Counts:
nin: 59 jman1954goat: 38 Fanto: 29 Stantastic: 29 Aeleus: 27 Razmos: 24 Hagi: 22 Vincent Alexander: 19 TheChuggernaut: 19 Lone_Prodigy: 10 MrHedin: 9 SalvaPot: 9 Reki: 6 Stove: 6 Kalor: 4
Current Countdown:
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
That's not what you said though. You said Jman should take care of nin and we should kill someone else today. Nothing about Jman following their heart or whatever. Also I'm going to be real, the only time I've used the "The vig should make the choice by themselves" argument has been when I was scum worried about my team mate dying so this is kind of a red flag for me
Not really. I thought that was enough for one day and held on to the Miller claim. I mean there is never a good time to make that claim.
Initially I wanted to make it on D2 but this was cut short since I had no time to even actively participate in it. Well D3 came along and I did the best out of the already terrible situation. I guess Salva put it best.
Can I ask who you would vote/shoot if I turn out town and who if I turn scum ?
What? Are you trying to say that nin is my scum teammate and I don't want him to die? Because that's not correct.
No I think Hagi is your scum team mate and you don't want him to die.
Not really, scum could just kill you and that way we just lose the vig and have nothing to show for it.
The way jman's reveal was worded means that jman got access to his kill by Fran dying. And claims that another player has to die to get another kill. So that pretty much means a BG needs to die for jman's role to be "useful to town".
So we are supposed to believe jman has an extra kill given due to a townie dying. And once another player/townie dies, he gets one more. That means he benefits directly from town getting killed. Kinda sounds like a win condition to me. Or a way to be able to do his kills without looking suspicious, in case he is tracked.
What if his win condition is to get two players out of the game? Or to get two kills and just decided to use Fran's death as a cover?
You definitely missed some steps as I'm not sure how you think I'm trying to protect Hagi.
i don't know who's death unlocks my second shot. I had know idea Frans death or a bodyguard death would activate my first shot. my role pm is extremely vague it just says you get bullets when certain player's dies no info about role or alignment
there's no evidence my second bullet comes from town or mafia or neutral it's pure conjecture to figure it out.
No yeah, it would be Kalor trying to protect nin. Not Kalor protecting Hagi. Either way I'm deep into some WIFOM bullshit so we can come back to this once we actually get some flips
If it's okay with you I'll reply in the morning when I actually have access to a pc and can properly quote other posts.
Gonna chill with my wife and watch a movie before bed. Have fun folks.
I....
I completely blanked on turmoils flip.
Yeah its much less likely that scum have an RB then. Not impossible but...yeah.
Yeah more sleep sounds pretty good right now.
If scum shoots jman then we just lunch his target the next day.
Also scum wouldn't hydro canon at this point; they're in good shape and another dead townie tonight gets them closer to winning, even if they lose someone.
Lunch nin today. Shoot Hagi if nin flips town. Shoot one of Chugg/VA/Kalor otherwise.
Kalor and Chugg are distancing themselves from each other. I highly doubt they're both town but seem to not be both scum, so pick one.
Also scum wouldn't hydro canon at this point; they're in good shape and another dead townie tonight gets them closer to winning, even if they lose someone.
Lunch nin today. Shoot Hagi if nin flips town. Shoot one of Chugg/VA/Kalor otherwise.
Kalor and Chugg are distancing themselves from each other. I highly doubt they're both town but seem to not be both scum, so pick one.
If it helps, I have what I thiiink is a pretty easy-to-verify town role/power/thing...So if we need to take me off the table, you all let me know.
Sure Hagi, take all the time you need.
Yeah, thanks for asking. If baddie, I'd look at either Stan or Chuggs, as they both seemed to try and divert attention from you. There're a few ifs there depending on specific interactions - like the bit VA brought up about you trying to make Fanto vs Chuggs a thing - but stuff like my exchange with Chuggs about him thinking an extra shot was from a town vig at the start of a phase and Stan commiting to the VA push even after his answers left me feeling uneasy.
Now, let me admit, Chuggs is right in that I lack a proper case against him. I hope I can shed more light on that with a re-read next phase, but I'd really like a meanie flip before starting to make stronger cases and associations.
If you flip town though, that's a bit more complex. We'd be certain that your Hagi push came from a genuine place, so I'd at least re-read there a bit to consider that option. LP is someone I'd like to look at too considering the suspicion some people share about that slot.
In general though, I'd need to revisit your interactions with people to decide in this case.
I read it more as a "Yeah town you lost a protective role, take this as a compensation" kind of thing, but I see your point.
That wincon sounds unlikely because a) It's too easy and b) It's unlikely we have another neutral. Like, I can see it making sense flavor-wise but this is the first game of the designers and I don't think they'd go for something so unusual.
A more likely scenario, in my opinion, would be that Jman is a mafia-aligned Odd Night Vig. We've seen three forms of protection so far and who knows what else is out there; giving that Vig to the baddies to accelerate the game doesn't sound that extreme.
That'd explain the extra N1 death and his shot next night. And if I'm right, the gambit would include claiming that whoever dies N4 gives him the other shot.
The question would be; does the girl Fran rolled dying have any relation to this King flavor-wise? Like, if a player gives him a shot, I'd expect these characters to be linked in some way.
Yeah that's why I asked.
A Bus Driver would be more likely but that'd be absurdly OP for the baddies.
I think I know what you mean, but I'd rather you don't claim today, we have enough info as it is for now.
You do you though.
(But remember that town gambits usually backfire.)
(Yeah I'm saying that to WIFOM whatever your claim is for the baddies.)
Yeah, thanks for asking. If baddie, I'd look at either Stan or Chuggs, as they both seemed to try and divert attention from you. There're a few ifs there depending on specific interactions - like the bit VA brought up about you trying to make Fanto vs Chuggs a thing - but stuff like my exchange with Chuggs about him thinking an extra shot was from a town vig at the start of a phase and Stan commiting to the VA push even after his answers left me feeling uneasy.
Now, let me admit, Chuggs is right in that I lack a proper case against him. I hope I can shed more light on that with a re-read next phase, but I'd really like a meanie flip before starting to make stronger cases and associations.
If you flip town though, that's a bit more complex. We'd be certain that your Hagi push came from a genuine place, so I'd at least re-read there a bit to consider that option. LP is someone I'd like to look at too considering the suspicion some people share about that slot.
In general though, I'd need to revisit your interactions with people to decide in this case.
I read it more as a "Yeah town you lost a protective role, take this as a compensation" kind of thing, but I see your point.
That wincon sounds unlikely because a) It's too easy and b) It's unlikely we have another neutral. Like, I can see it making sense flavor-wise but this is the first game of the designers and I don't think they'd go for something so unusual.
A more likely scenario, in my opinion, would be that Jman is a mafia-aligned Odd Night Vig. We've seen three forms of protection so far and who knows what else is out there; giving that Vig to the baddies to accelerate the game doesn't sound that extreme.
That'd explain the extra N1 death and his shot next night. And if I'm right, the gambit would include claiming that whoever dies N4 gives him the other shot.
The question would be; does the girl Fran rolled dying have any relation to this King flavor-wise? Like, if a player gives him a shot, I'd expect these characters to be linked in some way.
Yeah that's why I asked.
A Bus Driver would be more likely but that'd be absurdly OP for the baddies.
I think I know what you mean, but I'd rather you don't claim today, we have enough info as it is for now.
You do you though.
(But remember that town gambits usually backfire.)
(Yeah I'm saying that to WIFOM whatever your claim is for the baddies.)
Okay you keep framing it like this but i teally have to object. The day started with multiple votes on nin with no explanation given and both me and chuggs had the audacity ask why, to say its diverting attention is some bullshit, its basic mafia play.
I'm feeling better about LP lately, he's given some good thoughts during all of this imo. (Of course, that's just what he wants me to think! But regardless, that's my take currently)
I am not feeling any better about Salva. Call it "bad Town play" or whatever all you want, but seriously...
These posts are just him posting from a Scum perspective, straight up:
jman1954goat King Vote on SalvaPot
I am not feeling any better about Salva. Call it "bad Town play" or whatever all you want, but seriously...
These posts are just him posting from a Scum perspective, straight up:
And this is him Neutral hunting, which is something that Scum can do just as easily as Town:
I'd say I'm changing my King vote over to Salva.
jman1954goat King Vote on SalvaPot
I can see this. As said about Chuggs - and I should've included you in that sentence - both are weak inclinations. If you're right then the simple re-read I keep postponing should clear you, no problem there.
Tbf you do have a point about my VA vote, im just kind of running with the previous scum read i had on him and havnt really re-evaluated.
I must say Salvapot's priorities strange. why would town be so anti voting. Part of me thinks he just wants to look at it from every angle Part of me thinks scum might be worried of us hitting twice with my shot? need to read more more of the thread but for now.
Slingshot - Salvapot
Slingshot - Salvapot
Of course, I'm thinking from the persepective that jman might be scum hiding his kill under the cover of killing for town. Or am I not allowed to go against the town narrative?
This is what bothers me, this game in particular seems to take a stance early in the day and make no effort whatsoever to look at every angle. It got turm lunched, it got funky hammered, and now everyone just decided nin is dying and took jmans word for it, easy as pie. Sure, we have two vigs, makes perfect sense.
What if nin flips town? Wouldn't that mean jman is likely scum? No one really has put that out, its basically a counter-claim and everyone just ignored that. One step at a time, I guess.
For now I'm voting nin because we need to solve that, obvs, but I am going to entertain the idea he is telling the truth, because I think it fits with the way nin played his claim. And if I believe nin, I think jman is scum.
I really like the idea of odd night vig, since it goes with the theme that seems to have this game of having to target someone different each night.
Hedin is the one with the red check on nin. Jman just has the vig shot
Hot take: lunch jman. If he's telling the truth, lunch nin tomorrow.
If we lunch nin today and he flips town, then jman gets his shot off and we potentially lose 2 more town tonight.
What do we need an extra vig kill for? Lunching jman is the less risky option.
If we lunch nin today and he flips town, then jman gets his shot off and we potentially lose 2 more town tonight.
What do we need an extra vig kill for? Lunching jman is the less risky option.
I don't know what you are correcting here. I'm saying that nin has the red check against him, but if he is saying the truth and he is actually a miller that means that jman would be the second vigilante in the game. Two vigs. But everyone kind of accepted that.
Oh my bad. I keep forgetting about the supposed second vig shot
I'm really confused about this because in my mind you are my other top scum, also I don't know why you'll put jman over nin since nin flipping actually helps solve several things: The no kill on Hagi, and the check by MrHedin.
Meanwhile jman only has his word for it, but can deliver. For all we know he could just be bluffin the kill to get more info, and if he delivers and kills for town, then whoever dies gives more info on jman. If jman somehow kills another scum player, then yeah, that's that, if jman kills a townie he can protect himself with saying town decided that. And sure I don't like it but results speak for themselves there. Lunching jman now over nin really solves less.
Agreed here. If nin flips town and was telling the truth - vig shot and everything - jman is a good vote next phase, yeah. I makes no sense that we'd have one town Vig with nin, another kinda Vig with jman, and N1 shot that's still unclaimed.
Yeah if nin is indeed a vigilante then jmans role would be far more suspect, especially when there likely only one kill this night.
I also think this scenario is seriously unlikely.
Im always perfectly calm and gentlemanly about these games.
Always.
Id rather we try to kill people we are scum reading, which im unlikely to feel about jman unless something goes notably weird with his shot.
I also think this scenario is seriously unlikely.
Agreed, i brought up that same point, partially because i believed it, but i more wanted to see how you would defend it, and i thought you did so quite well. Salva feels excessively adamant about it.
Whatever do you mean?
Im always perfectly calm and gentlemanly about these games.
Always.
Ehh, nah.
Id rather we try to kill people we are scum reading, which im unlikely to feel about jman unless something goes notably weird with his shot.
Nin has a red check on him and you want to leave him alive?
Combed through the last pages and tallied the votes. The normal count is similar to the one jman shared recently, but since the other two don't have an associated formatting I just took these votes from the linked posts. If anything is wrong just say so!
Vig shot voting
Hagi (2)
nin (#1420)
TheChuggernaut (#1593)
Vincent Alexander (1)
Hagi (#1587)
Lone_Prodigy (1)
Fanto (#1589)
SalvaPot (1)
jman1954goat (#1674)
Mafia!nin voting
Lone_Prodigy (1)
Fanto (#1588)
Town!nin voting
Hagi (3)
nin (#1564)
MrHedin (#1611)
Lone_Prodigy (#1665)
Lone_Prodigy (1)
Fanto (#1588)
Vig shot voting
Hagi (2)
nin (#1420)
TheChuggernaut (#1593)
Vincent Alexander (1)
Hagi (#1587)
Lone_Prodigy (1)
Fanto (#1589)
SalvaPot (1)
jman1954goat (#1674)
Mafia!nin voting
Lone_Prodigy (1)
Fanto (#1588)
Town!nin voting
Hagi (3)
nin (#1564)
MrHedin (#1611)
Lone_Prodigy (#1665)
Lone_Prodigy (1)
Fanto (#1588)
Ok kids in bed and time to get caught up on things.
Add me to the list of those that is confused by this (although I do see right afterwards you say go after nin instead) as I think we get far more information from lunching nin than going after jman at this point. Nin claimed miller after my check which from a scum that's at least one play he could make to at least try to sow some confusion. By lunching nin you either find out if I'm lying, if he's lying, or in the unfortunate circumstance we're both right. We would also get confirmation on whether or not he would have been able to take a shot at Hagi last night and then we can have a debate on jman if needed. If you go after jman you just find out about jman and nothing else really.
Add me to the list of those that is confused by this (although I do see right afterwards you say go after nin instead) as I think we get far more information from lunching nin than going after jman at this point. Nin claimed miller after my check which from a scum that's at least one play he could make to at least try to sow some confusion. By lunching nin you either find out if I'm lying, if he's lying, or in the unfortunate circumstance we're both right. We would also get confirmation on whether or not he would have been able to take a shot at Hagi last night and then we can have a debate on jman if needed. If you go after jman you just find out about jman and nothing else really.
Fixed.
Vig shot voting said:
Mafia!nin voting said:
Town!nin voting said:
LP I think you were good for the day. I don't think you had to pad your post out anymore with a double post
So so I'm clear your vote is for hagi regardless of nin's flip?
No, you're thinking from the perspective of a Scum player in all of those posts I quoted. You're talking about what Scum would do to him because of his claim, how they could frame him, what he could do if he was Scum, etc. It just shows me that your thought process is not a Townie one.
No, we probably don't. Whoever took the second shot on N1 is probably anti-Town imo. It's not unheard of for a Scum team to have an extra shot, especially with all the protection we've seen flip so far, and it's not impossible for there to be a second Neutral still with a killing power either.
I cannot even imagine entertaining the idea of Nin telling the truth right now. What does it get you? A possible head start on the extremely low chance that he flips Town? All I see is you muddying the waters and making discussions more confusing for people.
All I see is someone who is trying to prevent discussion. It pains me since Salva was the only one who finally thought about the possibility and started to talk about it.
Low chance ? Well there is a chance. I mean I don't want to read the usual Dance again with you just giving up and not wanting to play since you made a mistake bla.bla.
I am giving you a heads start with this now Fanto. I am town and the possibility is very real. For me right now it kinda worries me that jman could be neutral. Trying to unpack this now.