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Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
Im so fucking incensed, especially since this is being done in my name. Sorry facists. Not all jews hate Muslims and want them harassed while praying to the same god we do.
 

Dever

Member
Dec 25, 2019
5,372
Was interested to read more about this specific area and the Wikipedia page is uhh, something

Lawyers for the Jewish families argued that documents from the Ottoman Empire originally used to prove that a Jewish Sephardic organization had purchased the land in question in the 19th century are indeed valid, while Palestinian lawyers brought with them documents from Istanbul's Ottoman archives indicating that the Jewish organization that claims to own the land only rented it, and as such was not the rightful owner, the Kurd family claims that when they pressed the court to look at the new evidence, they were told "it's too late". Moreover, the Palestinian families and their supporters maintained that Ottoman documents that Israel's Supreme Court had validated were in fact forgeries, and that the original ruling and therefore evictions relating to that ruling should be reversed. The lawyer for the Israeli families emphasized that the land deeds were authentic, according to many Israeli courts. The Israeli court decision (resulting in the aforementioned evictions) stated that the document presented by the Palestinian families was a forgery, while the document of Jewish ownership was authentic.

In August 2009, the court evicted the al-Hanoun and al-Ghawi families from two homes in Sheikh Jarrah and Jewish families moved in based on a Supreme Court ruling that the property was owned by Jews. The United Nations coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process, Robert Serry condemned the decision: "These actions heighten tensions and undermine international efforts to create conditions for fruitful negotiations to achieve peace." The US State Department called it a violation of Israel's obligations under the Road map for peace. Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said "Tonight, while these new settlers from abroad will be accommodating themselves and their belongings in these Palestinian houses, 19 newly homeless children will have nowhere to sleep." Yakir Segev of the Jerusalem municipal council responded: "This is a matter of the court. It is a civil dispute between Palestinian families and those of Israeli settlers, regarding who is the rightful owner of this property... Israeli law is the only law we are obliged to obey."

I don't quite get something... Even if you take it at face value that a Jewish organization owned the land in the 19th century, how would the ownership transfer to all Jewish people as a group? It's like saying if a specific church owned a plot of land at one point, that means it belongs to all Christians in perpetuity.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
Was interested to read more about this specific area and the Wikipedia page is uhh, something



I don't quite get something... Even if you take it at face value that a Jewish organization owned the land in the 19th century, how would the ownership transfer to all Jewish people as a group? It's like saying if a specific church owned a plot of land at one point, that means it belongs to all Christians in perpetuity.
It's a kangaroo court system. Israel runs on ethno-fascism, big American donors, US Government and Apartheid to prop it up. Without any of this pillars of support, Israel becomes a failed state.
 
Dec 31, 2017
7,128
I've been following these stories on forums for 10+ years now. Nothing will change here. There is no hope. I'm sorry to say it, and my heart goes out to these people, but the game has been over. Whatever discussion we can have in the ERA bubble is about a 2% representation of how others feel in real life (or don't care). When firebrand darling AOC can't mutter out anything better than that chickenshit response, it's completely over.
 
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Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
even instagram blocking these news





yeah

The type of things are only going to get worse, Congress allocated millions of dollars to "fighting disinformation online" and I have no idea what people think America does with that money, but to a large degree it is about purging anything we and our allies don't like from social media and internet in general.

I've been following these stories on forums for 10+ years now. Nothing will change here. There is no hope. I'm sorry to say it, and my heart goes out to these people, but the game has been over. Whatever discussion we can have in the ERA bubble is about a 2% representation of how others feel in real life (or don't care).
If America stopped our unconditional support for Israel things will change pretty damn quick, I promise you.
But Americans don't care about this issue all that much, definitely not enough to push our politicians seriously on this.
Like we're in the process of criminalizing pro-Palestinian activism in the US, and people barely even care about that.
 

Buck Dancer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
384
This is madness. This is blindness.

You have to see the whole ID card system then. Been thrown out twice on the West Bank-Jordan border. My crime? Gaza ID card (even if I am an European citizen and have barely visited Gaza in my whole life). And I had clearance prior to my trip as part of my work within the Humanitarian sector.
vp-id-opchart-final-en-20140515.png
 

Ctrl Alt Del

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
4,312
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
The racist, fascist apartheid regime promulgated by the Israeli government has gone on for too long. My heart goes to the Palestinians who will fight this for what's theirs.

Can't blame them. If they don't do it someone else will!




e: Oop didn't see it as unembedded in the OP

Is this a situation of a Israeli neighbor or acquaintance casually moving into a displaced Palestinian house?
 

dude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,692
Tel Aviv
I don't quite get something... Even if you take it at face value that a Jewish organization owned the land in the 19th century, how would the ownership transfer to all Jewish people as a group? It's like saying if a specific church owned a plot of land at one point, that means it belongs to all Christians in perpetuity.
For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure the court didn't give it to all Jewish people as a group - But to a specific settler-owned foundation or organization - one of many with the explicit mission of Judaizing Jerusalem and ethnic cleanse it of Palestinians. This is basically the legal apparatus of the settler system, working in tandem with the "brown shirts" thugs that use force and more. One of the reasons the evictions must be stopped - is that this is not just some isolated freak accident or a specific legal case - This is an entire system.
 

Dopsi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
529
I hate seeing this and being in no position to help. This is such bullshit and all of this to be happening during the last few days of Ramadan. This is all calculated.
 

Protein

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,034
The Israeli government is a fascist state, and the lobbyists in the US supporting them are fascists too.
 

Ary F.

Member
Oct 30, 2017
736
I've got some extended family in Israel.
My cousin is quietly, quietly, clearing out his basement because he fears a good family friend and his wife+kids in East Jerusalem will be next.
The irony isn't lost on us. Our family barely escaped Auschwitz.
 

Agi

Member
Jun 26, 2020
409
I've got some extended family in Israel.
My cousin is quietly, quietly, clearing out his basement because he fears a good family friend and his wife+kids in East Jerusalem will be next.
The irony isn't lost on us. Our family barely escaped Auschwitz.
Wow. Good luck to the good people in this.
 
Jul 3, 2019
963
Committing genocide, I'm sure the Israeli's ancestors are proud of them after what they went thru.
No better than the ****'s.
 

dude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,692
Tel Aviv
I think more people need this context.
Even more context: Bibi basically made sure the Kahanists got into the Knesset. One of the matches that lit up this fire, was that the Kahanist Ben-Gvir moved his office to Sheikh Jerrakh. In addition, the Israeli Police have basically took every possible avenue they could to make the last few days more volatile - And especially so today (not allowing Muslims into Al Aqsa on the holiest night of the year.) The minister in charge of the Police is Bibi-appointed Ohana.
This is also happening while the main opposition is almost ready to form a Bibi-less government, so it's pretty clear Bibi's goal here is to basically burn everything to the ground, which will disintegrate any alternative government, and maybe even drive people who said they wouldn't sit with him to do so because there's a crisis.
 

Sensei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,583
i will never be able to comprehend how sick someone would have to be to steal someone's home and live there like it's nothing

i would not be capable of sleeping comfortably. i just cant understand imperialist cruelty and i hope i never do
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
Even more context: Bibi basically made sure the Kahanists got into the Knesset. One of the matches that lit up this fire, was that the Kahanist Ben-Gvir moved his office to Sheikh Jerrakh. In addition, the Israeli Police have basically took every possible avenue they could to make the last few days more volatile - And especially so today (not allowing Muslims into Al Aqsa on the holiest night of the year.) The minister in charge of the Police is Bibi-appointed Ohana.
This is also happening while the main opposition is almost ready to form a Bibi-less government, so it's pretty clear Bibi's goal here is to basically burn everything to the ground, which will disintegrate any alternative government, and maybe even drive people who said they wouldn't sit with him to do so because there's a crisis.
That piece of shit did pretty much the same thing for very similar political reasons in '96 with the western wall tunnel.
Since before I was born the most basic move of the Israeli right was "unsure what to do? how about starting shit in Jerusalem, that will win us public support" and it pretty much always work.
 

Soph

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,503
It's never going to get better..is it? These people are nothing but trash. I hope the victims find some solace somehow.
 
Oct 31, 2017
301
I guess the language coming out of the US is changing at least, Senators and ppl in Gvt are now coming out and openly saying what is happening is wrong. A couple of years ago this would not have been heard off.
 

takriel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,221
The American people by and large support all of this too. Support for Israel is pretty high in the US.

Sometimes the American people can really let you down.
What gets to me most is the apparent inability or unwillingness to question one's own beliefs, motifs, and values when faced with information that's incompatible with them.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,900
What gets to me most is the apparent inability or unwillingness to question one's own beliefs and values when faced with such information.
I don't know what is in someones head but yours if the more charitable way of looking at it.

The other is that they approve of what Israel is doing.

I hope that you are right that the support is born out of ignorance and not evil but who knows. Human beings of all races, religions and nationalities can do some horrible shit at times.
 

jml

Member
Mar 9, 2018
4,783
I don't know what is in someones head but yours if the more charitable way of looking at it.

The other is that they approve of what Israel is doing.

I hope that you are right that the support is born out of ignorance and not evil but who knows. Human beings of all races, religions and nationalities can do some horrible shit at times.
The way the media reports on it shapes a lot of those opinions, I really believe that most Americans don't fully pay attention to what's going on in Israel/Palestine. Just look at some of the posts ITT -- even when Israel is undeniably in the wrong, the NYT/Guardian/etc are framing this as somehow being some "both sides" nonsense.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
The way the media reports on it shapes a lot of those opinions, I really believe that most Americans don't fully pay attention to what's going on in Israel/Palestine. Just look at some of the posts ITT -- even when Israel is undeniably in the wrong, the NYT/Guardian/etc are framing this as somehow being some "both sides" nonsense.
100% agreed, and I think on top of that people just are also exposed to endless Islamophobic garbage from both news and popular media, and that also shape people view about who should be the "good guys" and the "bad guys".
 

Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651


dems starting to speak out. don't expect this to change US policy but dems not being lockstep with lukid is good
 

madstarr12

Member
Jan 25, 2018
2,571
The story needs more exposure. I wouldn't be surprised if many politicians haven't heard of this yet. Glad some dems are starting to speak out.
 

Jeb

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Mar 14, 2018
2,170
The story needs more exposure. I wouldn't be surprised if many politicians haven't heard of this yet. Glad some dems are starting to speak out.
They enabled this shit for many years.
They had the chance to do something about this for a long time but it was inconvenient for their careers to do so.
They dont get a pass for finally changing their tune once it gets trending.
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
It's good to see statements from congressional Dems, I was worried that this would get buried, but the Al Aqsa action was too blatant to be ignored.
 

Cation

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,603
The American people by and large support all of this too. Support for Israel is pretty high in the US.

Sometimes the American people can really let you down.
It is better now than it has been in the past. 10 years ago even people who are so angry about this wouldn't have even known/cared about this.

What gives me hope is that I think we are slowly trending toward Pro-Palestine. In 2012 the DNC had a proposal about Jerusalem being the capital of Israel. Watch what happens...lol. Made me so happy
 

The Masked Mufti

The Wise Ones
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,989
Scotland

About time.
It is better now than it has been in the past. 10 years ago even people who are so angry about this wouldn't have even known/cared about this.

What gives me hope is that I think we are slowly trending toward Pro-Palestine. In 2012 the DNC had a proposal about Jerusalem being the capital of Israel. Watch what happens...lol. Made me so happy

I don't think there's going to be any progress at all during the Biden administration. It's easy to forget that Biden is an absolute cunt with his role in the Iraq War and the Middle East in general, and in keeping Bibi happy.
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,878
It is better now than it has been in the past. 10 years ago even people who are so angry about this wouldn't have even known/cared about this.
I appreciate that. But I think that, like with climate change, our window of action is short and growing shorter. It doesn't matter if we recognize as a nation that we can't condone it if things are over.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
I just saw that picture of that IDF trash bag putting his legs on a guy like that asshole who killed George Floyd did.. This shit is so frustrating.

Fuck everyone who thinks this is in anyway acceptable. And most of all, fuck social media for hiding them under "sensitive" blur. People need to be forced to see the kind of shit Israel is doing to people. They need to see the injustice head on.

God what a nightmare this is.
 

Red

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,785
What is it with the world that makes everyone so obviously look the other way when Israel fucks over Palestinians? People are not only afraid to call it out, they're afraid to acknowledge it. What is the justification?
 

Kain-Nosgoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,694
Switzerland
What gives me hope is that I think we are slowly trending toward Pro-Palestine. In 2012 the DNC had a proposal about Jerusalem being the capital of Israel. Watch what happens...lol. Made me so happy


wait, what is that, are they really trying to decide something with who scream the loudest? How is that reliable at all? This is fucking horrible and backward as fuck...
 

Aran

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
354
Hope this story gets more exposure and more politicians start to speak out.