I'll turn this back around since you were right on Blarg and I think you (we're) right on HP. What do you read me as?
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Star Trek: The Next Generation Mafia |OT| The First Duty Of Every Starfleet Officer Is To The Truth (Except In Mafia)
- Thread starter Fanto
- Start date
I'm not really sure at the moment, hence why I said in my first post this Day Phase that I wanted to re-read you. I haven't quite gotten a chance to do so yet. I felt good about your posts in the early game on D1 and D2, hence my read of you in my initial large reads list, but I feel like I haven't been getting quite as much comparatively the last two day phases. A bit of a null right now but I am hoping to change that before the day phase is up.
The roles on flips of dead characters haven't lied once.
And the only claimed character that doesn't make sense with the role is HP's double.
Like you said roles are one thing and characters are another, but in a series with not one, not two but three doctors in it, why would they give that job to anyone but one of those three?
flavours flavour.
anexanhume how do you feel about fate? Everybody how do you feel about fate this game?
anex put it best a little while ago, doesn't fate seem awfully "aggressive" this game?
FateShirou how did that make you feel seeing Anex call you out on it?
dont care, I have my way of playing
and rest of you got your way of playing, if thats putting a vote down and talking to yourself, etc
I'm not going to stop playing the way I have unless i get a warning from the higher ups
just waiting for royal to do a post on me
and see what kind of culture anex wants this game to have
See here's the thing, comparing the last games.
dont care, I have my way of playing
and rest of you got your way of playing, if thats putting a vote down and talking to yourself, etc
I'm not going to stop playing the way I have unless i get a warning from the higher ups
just waiting for royal to do a post on me
and see what kind of culture anex wants this game to have
fate/stay 2.0- jerk hardheaded fate, neutral
Fantasy Star (aka Oops all scum/ BR mafia) - remarkably not a jerk fate, (all scum)
transistor - levelheaded, best town player from the game, -town
and I think some would agree this game is more like fate/Stay 2.0 than fantasy star. Bad definitely more fate/stay than transistor.
prove me wrong, but your aggression in the game is standing out where when you were trying as town it hadn't before. Now that was months ago, and we played a lot of crazy style games which led to play styles being drastically different, BUT Something is different here
I don't see why it would be of use, but I'm Miles O'Brien.
As for reads, I'll have to make a graph of how the Blarg train came to be last day phase, but at least Fate, Rando and LP could very well be bussing. The votes from Jman, Zipped, HP and Anex also don't look great with that flip.
I'm just curious, what made you choose Wee to play against yesterday?
The prize to be won. Though in the end that part didn't go as planned.
I'm fine when aggression or pushiness seems to have an end goal, such as spurring a quiet player to speak up. I've yet to see such a benefit from him, and you've got Royal wanting to avoid him all together because of his attitude, which I can empathize with.
Perhaps it's a strategy to stay alive? Certainly doesn't win any friends in the process.
Sorry, didn't realize I was ordained minister of culture.
I'm also interested in looking at the D2 vote on Neki. It's such an easy place for scum to hide since it was a "red check".
They were: Fate, me, ATP, Ambu/Vere, Zipped, anex, LP, Ephi, and HP.
Of those, the ones on both leading trains on D1 and D2 are: me, ATP, anex, LP, Ephi, and HP.
Then if you look at who DIDN'T vote out Blarg from that list, you have anex and HP. 3 times on the wrong vote is getting into "not a coincidence" territory.
Are you willing to reveal anything about your prize right now?
This is why I placed you in my town list. Multiple other people have me in scum list but no one wants to actually put it in words or start the train. You provide the best case against me based on vote record. I agree with the analysis and thus am choosing to vote for HP. I provided the basis for doing so in my vote post.
I voted to save HP based on role claim, but he's not added to the game since then, so it's seeming more and more likely a scum ability.
I didn't switch to Blarg because it was overcome by events at that point. Looking at the vote record, I don't think it would have helped my case (and more importantly, if HP is scum, it would be scum swapping between scum votes IMO).
I have already made the "an average player couldn't possibly be this dumb" argument, so I'm not going to go back to that well again. I would ask you to consider between HP and myself, who do you think has attempted to help town more? If it's HP, then I have more work to do.
I will give you this, the votes for Blarg came thick and fast yesterday, so it's hard to analyse your lack of involvement. It could be sus, could just be that it was the last five minutes of the day.
And I need to ISO you and HP. To answer your question, yes, it seems like you've helped town more. But there's this niggle in the back of my head that tells me you've been a bit middle of the road and have been quite clever with your word choices. It kind of reminds me of when I was first scum and you have to do that delicate balancing act and be amenable with your words.
So I might be leaning more towards HP at this point just because that's a lingering question from D1 that needs answering, but I've got my eye on you 👀
I'll add that the fact that you and wee maintain independent opinions of me despite sharing a chat is a positive sign for Town or well managed appearance of scum independence on the part of one of you.
I'm also openly curious if we have a role scanner how HP has escaped this despite being suspect since day 1.
I'm also openly curious if we have a role scanner how HP has escaped this despite being suspect since day 1.
As far as we in the thread at large are aware we don't have a role scanner.
We have a potential flavour cop, who did scan HP, but "confident" isn't really much of a result to read anything into.
Neither, honestly, is last night's "stubborn"
Not at the moment, maybe later in the day.
weemadarthur were you informed what the prize would have been?
I don't want to read too much into it, but I do want to at least note that the ... flavour fishing? made me a little uncomfortable, especially with regards to Zipped.
I do understand the logic of it (Vere says he scanned Zipped, if it seems to match that implies Vere's role isn't entirely useless, and if consensus is that it matches then assuming you believe both of them it would also serve to confirm them both in some fashion)
But.
Part of why Zipped is so down on HP is because he doesn't think the flavour (K'ehlyer) matches the ability (double vote).
The implication, therefore, is that Zipped believes his own flavour does match with his abilities and as such the pursuit of his flavour also potentially outs him in some way.
There's also the fact that narrowing down his potential flavour by elimination that involved characters who are doctors could also be serving to narrow down LP's potential flavour.
(And also it amuses me that Vere self proclaims himself a casual watcher but thinks he knows who Zipped is when Wee doesn't).
I do understand the logic of it (Vere says he scanned Zipped, if it seems to match that implies Vere's role isn't entirely useless, and if consensus is that it matches then assuming you believe both of them it would also serve to confirm them both in some fashion)
But.
Part of why Zipped is so down on HP is because he doesn't think the flavour (K'ehlyer) matches the ability (double vote).
The implication, therefore, is that Zipped believes his own flavour does match with his abilities and as such the pursuit of his flavour also potentially outs him in some way.
There's also the fact that narrowing down his potential flavour by elimination that involved characters who are doctors could also be serving to narrow down LP's potential flavour.
(And also it amuses me that Vere self proclaims himself a casual watcher but thinks he knows who Zipped is when Wee doesn't).
It's my assumption that they will be shown. ATP's flip was lengthy af and the questions are part of mine, I see no reason they wouldn't be included.
I haven't actually asked. Some of my prior interactions with gamerunners have involved banter or gifs in both directions but my interactions with Fanto have not, so I err towards not bothering her :p
Doesn't matter anymore anyway, all things considered.
Speaking of which, 4N.
This game does not contain recruitment abilities.
As for what I think we should focus on, everything. People see different things, I don't wanna narrow down what they look at 👀
But now we actually have a flip and I have a moment I'm going to go look at Blarg and people's opinions thereof for a bit. I suspect the former won't tell me much, but maybe the latter will enlighten me.
Then I'll see where the mood takes me.
Oh before I do that, at EOD yesterday I was left feeling pretty good about Bo and malus, Bo for actually putting forward Blarg as a possibility at the end there and Malus for putting down the vote that made it a more decisive train after Bo suggested it.
I was left frowning at Fate's comment when despite having voted for Blarg previously when the opportunity presented itself at the end there he wanted to "strat our votes" with so little time left to go (though he did vote there afterwards).
It's not hard to type TNG confident character into google and look around. As for flavor not matching, what do you think of the flipped player's roles? Do they match their character, in your opinion? I assume that's where most of the linking would come up in.
Hm, why doesn't it matter anymore?
And just to make sure, your questions are baked into the PM? They sounded like basic questions you make yourself.
As someone who has been thinking about getting more flavour info out of people, this is a good point against it. I hadn't thought about it narrowing down the options for scum, though I wouldn't be surprised if they have fake names anyway.
If anything, LP's is the only name I'm interested in since he's still a question mark even with the claim, but it's not a priority right now.
Speaking for myself, I'm largely ignorant of Star Trek (shame), so I understand a hesitancy to give flavor or being at a loss for others reading into it.
Another thing I'll posit: scum knows why there was a NK last night. I assume they don't know exactly what prevented it (e.g. doctor vs another role). They can't expect to be able to start a train on the claimed doctor, so it makes sense they'd start role-fishing amongst the unclaimed, of which I am one. I arguably have the best argument for my removal given my vote record as well. In that mindset, it's curious that so many seem willing to vote for me, but no one is actually doing so. Softing for a train but not committing to starting it is something that would look better on then when I flip Town.
I should point out that this is ignoring the possibility of hydro cannon, which would be a fitting parting gift from Blarg. That uncertainty is the advantage they have over us in the matter.
Zipped was stubborn ;)
The ones that have flipped so far fit well (l love Barclay's, though actually using it might have been less fun), but at the point when Zipped said that our examples of flips were more limited, something which again implied his could be more closely linked (or that he had a wider baseline than the rest of us).
Fanto's role flavour is good, and given the right flavour twist I think that roles could fit better than they might appear at first glance. Like Worf being loved. Worf could easily have been any number of things, and with the flip you smile and nod, but if someone claimed Loved and then said they were Worf without you having read it you might go 👀 at it.
I understand him looking at HP and going hrm over it but I wouldn't be similarly inclined to use that specifically as part of an argument.
My questions are baked into my PM, yes. I can choose which of them to ask, but I didn't get to write the list.
Which is understandable, allowing me to write them myself would probably have been a headache and a half to work around
Yeah, my fault. Same thing, I typed in TNG stubborn character in google and looked at the first thread that popped up. Surprisingly was already a conversation there.
Oh, okay, I thought you were a medium type when I saw set of questions/answers and thought Fanto gave you topics and you wrote the questions.The ones that have flipped so far fit well (l love Barclay's, though actually using it might have been less fun), but at the point when Zipped said that our examples of flips were more limited, something which again implied his could be more closely linked (or that he had a wider baseline than the rest of us).
Fanto's role flavour is good, and given the right flavour twist I think that roles could fit better than they might appear at first glance. Like Worf being loved. Worf could easily have been any number of things, and with the flip you smile and nod, but if someone claimed Loved and then said they were Worf without you having read it you might go 👀 at it.
I understand him looking at HP and going hrm over it but I wouldn't be similarly inclined to use that specifically as part of an argument.
My questions are baked into my PM, yes. I can choose which of them to ask, but I didn't get to write the list.
Which is understandable, allowing me to write them myself would probably have been a headache and a half to work around
What are your thoughts on HP, Anex and Fate currently?
Walk me through this. So scum knows there wasn't a NK is the basis. The assumption is that there's protection involved. Like you said, the easiest answer is that maybe LP blocked the hit or it was a hydro cannon. Coincidental, but possible. How does this line up with role fishing for you, and who do you think is doing it?
They don't necessarily need to role fish. In their position, I certainly wouldn't. The more casually they can suggest an unrevealed town to be killed, the harder it is to implicate them. From what I've seen, role fishing gets looked down on pretty hard in these games. Plus, role fishing just gives the doctor someone to protect. The less information they can reveal to town in the process of eliminating an unrevealed Town, the better.
Who I think is doing it should be obvious based on my statement. Are you being obtuse, patronizing, or asking for reads on them individually?
I re-read anex like I said I would. He has felt a bit off the past 2 day phases, compared to The Thing, where he seemed a lot more confident and a great solver. First, I read through his posts looking for reads or hints of solving, and I did not find a lot of that. Next, I read through his posts again looking for any where he is dismissive, or deflects away from arguments, or both-sides points. From reading the thread as a whole I felt he had quite a few posts of that nature, and I was proven correct on re-read. These quotes are not in any kind of order, it's more about the quantity of the posts and the content within than any kind of developing narrative.
==========================================
Both sides argument:
Actually I haven't been completely logical argument:
HP is participating but of course scum would participate anyway:
I haven't focused much on individual people (to which I say, that's a strange departure from last game):
This is a good post except also maybe not:
Participation is good except when it's bad:
Very large post that includes downplaying reasons for Leo being killed, hesitation in posting full reads list for fear of being wrong and your list being used against you:
Scum would never argument:
Holding back your reads could be scum but also not:
WIFOM argument:
Another scum would never argument:
======================================================
These dismissive posts make up a pretty decent chunk of anex's total posts, and it's possible I missed some as well so this list is not definitive. These posts, combined with the difference in his behaviour compared to The Thing and lack of reads and solving, is raising some red flags and putting him in my PoE. I worried that I was being a bit too harsh with this ISO, so I actually went back and re-read his posts from The Thing, and it was a very illuminating, immediate difference from this game with a stark contrast in behaviour and capacity for solving.
Vote: anexanhume
==========================================
Both sides argument:
Actually I haven't been completely logical argument:
HP is participating but of course scum would participate anyway:
I haven't focused much on individual people (to which I say, that's a strange departure from last game):
This is a good post except also maybe not:
Participation is good except when it's bad:
Very large post that includes downplaying reasons for Leo being killed, hesitation in posting full reads list for fear of being wrong and your list being used against you:
Scum would never argument:
Holding back your reads could be scum but also not:
WIFOM argument:
Another scum would never argument:
======================================================
These dismissive posts make up a pretty decent chunk of anex's total posts, and it's possible I missed some as well so this list is not definitive. These posts, combined with the difference in his behaviour compared to The Thing and lack of reads and solving, is raising some red flags and putting him in my PoE. I worried that I was being a bit too harsh with this ISO, so I actually went back and re-read his posts from The Thing, and it was a very illuminating, immediate difference from this game with a stark contrast in behaviour and capacity for solving.
Vote: anexanhume
Royal remains in my PoE but I'm okay with taking a flyer on him today on the off chance that he really was just busy as he claims. I have zero meta of Royal, but his posts thus far have aligned with Launch's stated meta read of town!Royal. I appreciate that Royal has posted more this day phase so far, though with the caveat that he had some pressure on him and might've been worried about reaching the post threshold. I hope we continue to get more from him today.
I would vote out HP or anex over Royal, but if Royal was tied with someone else I would go for Royal. That's where I'm at today.
I would vote out HP or anex over Royal, but if Royal was tied with someone else I would go for Royal. That's where I'm at today.
Well, slow down, no one's attacking you here. What you said made it seem like you felt there was a concerted effort to rolefish, but you're saying that it's just one person arguing for it?
FateShirou you dodged my question yesterday asking about your Ephi read:
I'm not going to let you go that easily. Could you please elaborate on why Ephi is a top scum for you?
I'm not going to let you go that easily. Could you please elaborate on why Ephi is a top scum for you?
Well done. I'd vote for me after this. But the duplicity should be to my benefit in the future if I do end up rolling scum.
I'll try to address the points you made in good faith, though.
Both sides argument - I don't know the point you're trying to make with this one. There's no downside to self-preservation unless you're vanilla town and have no faith in yourself. I would still stand by that statement.
Actually, I haven't been logical - Again, I don't see the point. Can dishonesty only work for the benefit of scum? That would take a lot of fun out of the game, TBH. Heck, LP just admitted to purposeful "sloppy play." It did earn the side-eye, though.
Long-post - I actually didn't directly comment on Leo's NK. He seemed rather innocuous so I share the confusion another user shared (don't recall who). My point about lists actually opened up a discussion which I actively engaged in. I have since commented on other players in response to that.
Scum would never - hiding in plain sight has a ton of risk, even if executed well. And it's not an argument you can make twice in the same game, I'd say.
Holding back your votes - I don't get your point here either. It's not a black and white issue and it situationally dependent. Just today I again called out for people not committing to have an opinion on record. I logged my vote first post.
WIFOM - point here?
Scum would never - going back to my first post of responses, a lot of this game is playing devil's advocate. If everyone is operating under the same assumptions and nodding in agreement, that probably means scum is cool with the status quo.
PoE
ephdel/zipped are the two below
HPSauce
Anexanhume
Royal
ephidel/zipped are not my top scum reads
There are multiple people that indicated they'd vote for me, but none have (not counting Rando). I don't know how many are scum, and I certainly wouldn't expect all remaining scum to try and start a train for the same person.
One person I'll point out as confusing is Zipped because he had not indicated a suspicion of me at all prior to this today. This is despite a ton of lengthy and helpful posts (which I commended him for). I would at least like to know why at changed for him.
Your flip would help me develop better reads on others.
For instance, You and Fate, Fate has been hammering you endlessly and aggressively this game. As I pointed out a few hours ago, this game feels like a Fate that was much more aggressive than the last time he played fully town. Your flip as scum would help me cement that Fate had a good read on you and is unlikely scum. your flip as town would help me round out my "town Fate doesn't play like this" read.
Likewise Fate's flip as scum would absolutely cement you as town, in my opinion, Fate's flip as neutral would be much more in line with his gameplay style, but wouldn't really tell me anything about you anexanhume.
I don't think you are neutral though, I think your flip would get us good information and help with discussion.
Now does that help us find scum? Not as much as I would like, but I think it is possible you are scum still. There are very few people in this game I have a good town read on currently, Ephidel is almost assuredly town, have a pretty good feeling on Vere, Malus and Wee too. When those three voted Blarg yesterday it wasn't assured that Blarg was going to be voted out, and HP is still an unknown quantity. With Blarg's scum abilities being so useful with the claimed roles, I would imagine that scum wouldn't have flipped from HP!Scum to HP!Blarg when there was still time and other options to vote out.
Maybe HP is scum's NInja/Strongman or something stupid powerful like that, but baring that HP is also unlikely scum being that they were the number 1 vote after LP claimed yesterday but right before the Blarg Hammer train.
For instance, You and Fate, Fate has been hammering you endlessly and aggressively this game. As I pointed out a few hours ago, this game feels like a Fate that was much more aggressive than the last time he played fully town. Your flip as scum would help me cement that Fate had a good read on you and is unlikely scum. your flip as town would help me round out my "town Fate doesn't play like this" read.
Likewise Fate's flip as scum would absolutely cement you as town, in my opinion, Fate's flip as neutral would be much more in line with his gameplay style, but wouldn't really tell me anything about you anexanhume.
I don't think you are neutral though, I think your flip would get us good information and help with discussion.
Now does that help us find scum? Not as much as I would like, but I think it is possible you are scum still. There are very few people in this game I have a good town read on currently, Ephidel is almost assuredly town, have a pretty good feeling on Vere, Malus and Wee too. When those three voted Blarg yesterday it wasn't assured that Blarg was going to be voted out, and HP is still an unknown quantity. With Blarg's scum abilities being so useful with the claimed roles, I would imagine that scum wouldn't have flipped from HP!Scum to HP!Blarg when there was still time and other options to vote out.
Maybe HP is scum's NInja/Strongman or something stupid powerful like that, but baring that HP is also unlikely scum being that they were the number 1 vote after LP claimed yesterday but right before the Blarg Hammer train.
Shouldn't you be telling someone that they aren't supposed to be alive in this timeline and to go die?
3 way tie here, less than 2 hours before EoD. At this point, I feel pretty good about Vere voting for Blarg even though he was creating a tie.
Then we get Zipped and HP voting for me, and Fate moves from Blarg to HP.
Now it's LP 5, Ephi 3, HP 2, Blarg 2.
There are some more posts, mostly Fate and HP going at each other, then I claim.
10 minutes left, LP 5, HP 3, Blarg 2, Ephi 1.
So the alternative wagon is HP with a side of Blarg.
Bojack moves from me to HP. Anex moves from Ephi to HP.
The next minute, malus votes for Blarg and wee votes for HP.
5 minutes left, HP at 6, LP and Blarg at 3.
If HP is town, this is a good outcome for scum.
Then over the span of 2 minutes:
Bojack moves from HP to Blarg (5-4)
wee moves from HP to Blarg (5-4 Blarg)
Fate moves from HP to Blarg (6-3)
Randomless and LP move to Blarg (8-1)
That's not a lot of time to bus. Maybe scum had a pretyped vote ready to go and was refreshing the vote tool madly, but it swung from 6-3 to 8-1 the other way in no time.
Let's say that Fate, Randomless, and/or I bussed. After wee votes, it's just 5-4 Blarg. Zipped came in and voted for HP after the hammer at :00. If HP was town, scum could've waited to do a last second tie.
If you looked at just the votes, maybe it was a bus. But timing wise, that swing to vote out scum was too fast to be a bus, IMO.
Thanks for explaining. This passage is interesting. Does this mean you're not paying attention or lending credence to anyone else's scum read of me except Fate? All the others are simply misguided, mistaken, or possibly scum as well? It seems weird to hinge your opinion on his negative flip.
You could use that argument to question anyone. Why are you singling out Fate's opinion of me as especially important?
Ephi, Vere, malus, wee, and Bojack look pretty good here. Less confident on Random but he also didn't seem to hesitate to vote Blarg.
Fate, I'm not sure. I can buy the frustrated town bit, but it also seemed performative. He left Blarg to vote HP and then had a back and forth with him which was probably done to make him look scummy. I guess it worked since HP was the second wagon. But Fate never went after me which I found a bit odd, because as town, no one is your friend. Sure I was on his scum list and he said some stuff about my play, but it almost seemed like he was that tough guy at school who tried to pick a fight with anyone, especially those who responded to him. Royal and Blarg were away so he went after HP.
Fate, I'm not sure. I can buy the frustrated town bit, but it also seemed performative. He left Blarg to vote HP and then had a back and forth with him which was probably done to make him look scummy. I guess it worked since HP was the second wagon. But Fate never went after me which I found a bit odd, because as town, no one is your friend. Sure I was on his scum list and he said some stuff about my play, but it almost seemed like he was that tough guy at school who tried to pick a fight with anyone, especially those who responded to him. Royal and Blarg were away so he went after HP.
Hydro is the is the most oft referenced thing I've seen across two games, and Blarg certainly leaves an impression.
Also Rando, HP and Vere are the only three I've played with before that are still left.
HP is playing the defeated victim like he did last time, but I think his alignment is actually scum this time.
Rando is engaged and helpful, much like his Town persona last game before being assimilated at the end.
Vere is pretty guarded in how he plays. I had a scum read on him last game, but I believe my read preceded his conversion. Since he's playing what I perceive as similar to last game, I am wary of holding that against him. It's also tougher when someone is operating in an assumed role because their post history is meager.
HP is playing the defeated victim like he did last time, but I think his alignment is actually scum this time.
Rando is engaged and helpful, much like his Town persona last game before being assimilated at the end.
Vere is pretty guarded in how he plays. I had a scum read on him last game, but I believe my read preceded his conversion. Since he's playing what I perceive as similar to last game, I am wary of holding that against him. It's also tougher when someone is operating in an assumed role because their post history is meager.
Because Fate is dominating the conversation this game, top poster with the next closest being Wee (of which I have a solid town read on). By prioritizing figuring out reads on the top posters, I can feel confident that we (as a group) are actually scum hunting (instead of sheeping a top posting scum).
Sheeping a top posting scum happened a few games ago, and now I am really trying to actively avoid that.
OP
OP
==== DAY 4 VOTES ====
Day Start
HPSauce (2 votes)
weemadarthur - #1,677
Anexanhume - #1,733
Anexanhume (1 votes)
Randomless - #1,779
Royal_Flush (1 votes)
FateShirou - #1,676
Randomless - #1,691 #1,779
Not voting: Royal_Flush, Ephidel, Verelios, Zippedpinhead, malus, jman1954goat, Lone_Prodigy, BoJack Horseman, HPSauce
Post Counts:
Anexanhume: 19 FateShirou: 17 Randomless: 15 Zippedpinhead: 15 Lone_Prodigy: 12 weemadarthur: 12 Verelios: 10 Royal_Flush: 7 BoJack Horseman: 6 Ephidel: 5 HPSauce: 5 malus: 4
Current Countdown:
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
Day Start
HPSauce (2 votes)
weemadarthur - #1,677
Anexanhume - #1,733
Anexanhume (1 votes)
Randomless - #1,779
Royal_Flush (1 votes)
FateShirou - #1,676
Not voting: Royal_Flush, Ephidel, Verelios, Zippedpinhead, malus, jman1954goat, Lone_Prodigy, BoJack Horseman, HPSauce
Post Counts:
Anexanhume: 19 FateShirou: 17 Randomless: 15 Zippedpinhead: 15 Lone_Prodigy: 12 weemadarthur: 12 Verelios: 10 Royal_Flush: 7 BoJack Horseman: 6 Ephidel: 5 HPSauce: 5 malus: 4
Current Countdown:
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
You, that completely jives.
So let's look back to D2.
Here he came barreling out of the gate to vote Neki before the false red check.
Neki rightly pointed out he was making appeals to emotion and explained his thought processes.
So Fate has already demonstrated his capacity to be wrong. The fact that he's dominating the conversation should be a concern. That's why you don't let toddlers make the rules.
Would like to point out that Leo didn't give up on HP early D2. Possible scum saw him as not giving up on it and decided to eliminate him for it. Just another reason I'm convinced about HP.