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Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,074
I got to try the Vive Pro for a few hours. A friend got the entire package (i.e. including the new lighthouses and blue controllers).

Visuals:
  • The screen resolution is a clear upgrade over the existing Vive (and Oculus CV1). In hard scenarios like black on white text it's still easy to recognize the subpixel structure if you focus on it, but the advantage is clear, and also present for games - especially those where you aim at distant enemies, I tried Serious Same TFE.
  • Screen quality in terms of brightness, contrast and colors seemed really good (Vive is also great in most of those aspects though).
  • Unlike some reports, I do think that the optics were somewhat improved over the initial Vive. In high-contrast black background scenes I didn't see as many/clear artifacts as I can on the standard Vive (or get as much bloom as on CV1). However, Without doing a direct A/B test it's hard to be certain.
Comfort:
  • It's certainly much faster to put on and fit comfortably than the standard Vive strap, which is a huge advantage especially when demoing it. That said, at least for my head, once you spend the time to adjust the normal Vive to fit exactly it works well too.
  • The weight seems similar, but the weight balance is significantly improved.
Audio:
  • No problems there, the built-in headphones are convenient and the mechanism for opening/closing them works well. Given that I was talking to my friend most of the time it certainly wasn't a very audio-focused test though.
Tracking:
  • Tracking was almost perfect, but this is also what my experience with lighthouse 1.0 is. Maybe slightly less jitter at high distances, but again hard to be sure without A/B testing.
  • What's certainly impressive and just plain cool to see is the tracking cone of the new lighthouses in the room overview though. It almost seems like a half-circle. Should make some setups much easier.
Controllers:
  • Now this is the part I would never have expected before trying it. The controllers feel cheaper than my Vive controllers. The plastic is much easier to deform in some places and feels softer/thinner, and if you grip them more strongly they might creak. One idea I had was that maybe newer Vive controllers are also like that, and that this might explain why my launch units seem rock-solid (and survived being thrown into a wall at with silly levels of force) while many appear to have issues with them.
 

I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,555
Controllers:
  • Now this is the part I would never have expected before trying it. The controllers feel cheaper than my Vive controllers. The plastic is much easier to deform in some places and feels softer/thinner, and if you grip them more strongly they might creak. One idea I had was that maybe newer Vive controllers are also like that, and that this might explain why my launch units seem rock-solid (and survived being thrown into a wall at with silly levels of force) while many appear to have issues with them.
Interesting. I have launch controllers but the trackpad on one of mine is starting to stick in the upper right to the point that I pretty much can't use that area as a button anymore. Knuckles can't come soon enough.
 

PlayBee

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 8, 2017
5,544
Interesting. I have launch controllers but the trackpad on one of mine is starting to stick in the upper right to the point that I pretty much can't use that area as a button anymore. Knuckles can't come soon enough.
Whoa I literally just noticed the same issue (same spot) with one of my trackpads today.
 

Rolento

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,528
I forgot to mention I have a Vive Pro at work that i dont have hooked up do to the work I'm currently doing but I can test out some elements at some point if people had some specific questions... though keep in mind I don't know pixel counts stuff and nitty gritties.
 

Wowfunhappy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,102
Comfort:
  • It's certainly much faster to put on and fit comfortably than the standard Vive strap, which is a huge advantage especially when demoing it. That said, at least for my head, once you spend the time to adjust the normal Vive to fit exactly it works well too.
  • The weight seems similar, but the weight balance is significantly improved.
Audio:
  • No problems there, the built-in headphones are convenient and the mechanism for opening/closing them works well. Given that I was talking to my friend most of the time it certainly wasn't a very audio-focused test though.

Regarding comfort and audio, I take it you never used the Deluxe Strap on the original Vive?
 
OP
OP
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
461
It's really making me sour on the idea of trackpads over sticks even more.
I've had sticks fail or degrade over time due to various issues in the design or implementation. It took many years for the controller analog stick to reach the average quality that it has today. If anything trackpads have the potential to be more resilient than sticks due to having fewer mechanical points at which to fail. The Vive's controllers just have fundamental flaws in the design and implementation. Simple as that.
 

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,074
I went back and handled my original Vive controllers for a bit, trying to deform the plastic by pressure etc. And yeah, I wasn't just imagining things: the Pro controllers I tried very obviously felt less "solid".

Regarding comfort and audio, I take it you never used the Deluxe Strap on the original Vive?
No, I have not.

I've had sticks fail or degrade over time due to various issues in the design or implementation. It took many years for the controller analog stick to reach the average quality that it has today. If anything trackpads have the potential to be more resilient than sticks due to having fewer mechanical points at which to fail. The Vive's controllers just have fundamental flaws in the design and implementation. Simple as that.
Yeah, FWIW I've had a Steam controller since its launch and use it a lot and it has absolutely no signs of any trackpad (or other) issue, and I also haven't read anything about such things happening on a large scale.
 

Simplex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
405
There are widely reported issues with the headphones, they sound tinny and lack bass. For me it's an unforgivable issue in such an expensive, premium product.
 

I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,555
Yeah, FWIW I've had a Steam controller since its launch and use it a lot and it has absolutely no signs of any trackpad (or other) issue, and I also haven't read anything about such things happening on a large scale.
Always hard to tell how wide spread things are based on Reddit, but trackpad issues and just controller issues in general have been pretty common on there. Again, some Valve made Knuckles can't come soon enough. I have a lot more confidence in their build quality.
 
OP
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Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
461
Always hard to tell how wide spread things are based on Reddit, but trackpad issues and just controller issues in general have been pretty common on there. Again, some Valve made Knuckles can't come soon enough. I have a lot more confidence in their build quality.
He was talking about the Steam controller, not the Vive wands. Trackpad issues are certainly common enough on the Vive wands, but the Steam controller?
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,148
I went back and handled my original Vive controllers for a bit, trying to deform the plastic by pressure etc. And yeah, I wasn't just imagining things: the Pro controllers I tried very obviously felt less "solid".


No, I have not.

Yeah, FWIW I've had a Steam controller since its launch and use it a lot and it has absolutely no signs of any trackpad (or other) issue, and I also haven't read anything about such things happening on a large scale.

Oh man. Yea after coming from the Oculus rift I had to immediately buy the Deluxe Audio strap. When I am breaking down price for people I pretty much always add the price. I genuinely feel it is a required component. My standard strap was ratty after less than two weeks of usage. Frequent usage, but still.
 

GAFChuck

Member
Nov 23, 2017
88
Looking to purchase myself a classic Vive from the canada website, but when I click on "Buy Vive", it redirects me to the HTC US website, where everything is priced in USD.

I don't mind buying it from the US website, but I'm terrified of being charged some crazy import tax.

Could the canadian site be broken?
 

PlayBee

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 8, 2017
5,544
Looking to purchase myself a classic Vive from the canada website, but when I click on "Buy Vive", it redirects me to the HTC US website, where everything is priced in USD.

I don't mind buying it from the US website, but I'm terrified of being charged some crazy import tax.

Could the canadian site be broken?
Try Amazon?
 

1-D_FE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,275
There was a recent Reddit thread talking about how everyone seemed to be sold out (with a few rare exceptions). I think the most logical explanation is HTC decided to consolidate manufacturing and is probably updating the OG Vive to tracking 2.0 (2.0 lighthouse, controllers, tracking on HMD).

Pure speculation, of course, but it would explain how everyone has gone out of stock.
 

1-D_FE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,275
Is this really a risk? What about NAFTA?

Honestly, I wouldn't do it anyways. If it were me, I'd want to purchase from a retail establishment that would give me a super easy return if something was defective in the box. Feels like an unnecessary risk ordering directly from HTC.

And that's assuming they weren't just clearing out old inventory before Vive's with 2.0 tracking replace it. Because if that's the case, it's even more incentive to see what's going on and just wait until stock is refreshed. 2.0 would be much preferred at this point.

Doesn't really make sense for HTC to continue with 1.0 tracking assembly lines. Not only would it be cheaper to run a single production line, but the actual components are cheaper too.

Doesn't even seem the like business enterprise edition is in stock anywhere. Something's going on.
 

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,074
1icygak0a0511.jpg
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
A GTX 970 should be enough to play a decent amount of the current Steam VR library, yes? Don't mind turning a few settings down.

edit: for base Vive i mean
 

Deleted member 2620

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,491
If they stuck the thumb sensor on the top of an honest-to-god tilting stick, I will flip the fuck out. That's exactly what I wanted and more than makes up for how long Knuckles are taking.
 

Deleted member 2620

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,491
edit: Disregard this post. I thought my original hype was unwarranted because of the pic, but I'm dumb and was looking at a picture of the older prototype.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,723
Even without optimized games, even just being able to play games that have "Hold grip to grab" run off of actual grabbing will be a game changer, so GIMME DAMMIT
 

1-D_FE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,275
Sounds great! Analog sticks and touch are pretty effing big news. Feels like it never had to be a choice and I'm glad they've gone this way. Just makes things a whole lot more versatile IMO.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,148
One of the reasons I'm curious to learn more about Valve's VR titles is why they felt like physically grabbing stuff was so important to their development.
Immersion. I can tell you the step from Vive to Oculus in terms of ergonomics and interactions with just an extra touch/gesture capability and better grips already was a huge step up. The Knuckles promises something even more. With per finger and grab interactions. There's a ton of stuff you can do with that, and a whole lot less awkward.
 
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1-D_FE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,275
Immersion. I can tell you the step from Vive to Oculus in terms of ergonomics and interactions with just an extra touch/gesture capability and better grips already was a huge step up. The Knuckles promises something even more. With per finger and grab interactions. There's a ton of stuff you can do with that, and a whole lot less awkward.

You forgot throwing. You can physically throw and release. I still wonder how I feel about that from a safety POV (it's one thing to smash a controller into the wall, another your open hand), but it's there if a dev/player wants to use it.
 

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,074
You forgot throwing. You can physically throw and release.
This is still the one feature that I'm most hyped for with the Knuckle form factor.
Even the basics of interacting with physically simulated objects in VR never get old for me, and being able to actually let go to throw something will put that on the next level.

I want to play using Knuckle controllers and the 8k HMD this Christmas. Come on, Valve and Pimax, make it happen.
 

1-D_FE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,275
This is still the one feature that I'm most hyped for with the Knuckle form factor.
Even the basics of interacting with physically simulated objects in VR never get old for me, and being able to actually let go to throw something will put that on the next level.

I want to play using Knuckle controllers and the 8k HMD this Christmas. Come on, Valve and Pimax, make it happen.

I only added the safety disclaimer because I do worry a little. I was playing the demo of Racket NX a while ago, and my chaperone system had shifted a bit on me without being aware of it. I guess I kind of knew in hindsight, but wasn't paying attention. Anyways, I swung my racket and the bone plate on the top side of my palm smashed into the corner framing of a window. It hurt like a mother and I was extremely grateful I didn't shatter my hand. There's something very comforting about having indestructible plastic between objects and your hand.
 

1-D_FE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,275
That tweet was deleted, which probably proves it was legit ;)

It's definitely legit. This is what he said on Reddit (about removing it):

I got the impression they wanted me to, but then it was unclear if they really did or not after I had already pushed delete. I think they just weren't quite ready for this to be out there.
 

1-D_FE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,275
That's beautiful. It also looks like it has a consumer quality finish to it. Could be a final build if it passes muster with the devs.
 

PlayBee

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 8, 2017
5,544
So does it still detect when your fingers are gripping the handle via capacitive sensors or something? I don't want a trigger to be the only way to grab something.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,723
GIMME DAMMIT

God that looks sexy.
So does it still detect when your fingers are gripping the handle via capacitive sensors or something? I don't want a trigger to be the only way to grab something.
As far as we know, yes, it's all fully sensitive to your fingers. You'll be able to just naturally grab and release.
 

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,074
2467f379b9479f4f03857626ef9106459bd0cfa8.gif

The generalized skeletal hand thing is so sick and the controller is too, jeez
It really sounds like it gets everything right.

Even small stuff like the improved battery capacity or USB C high speed charging.

I do think the trackpad is a bit small, but what can you do in the face of all the indirect input aficionados :P