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Tom Warren: “hardly anyone has them” (Scarlett dev kits) “They’re no where near final”

Griffith

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,754
Not sure what type of sources Warren has but he has been covering Microsoft for a very long time. He was the founder of WinRumors which started almost two decades ago so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss his words.
 
Feb 10, 2018
15,519
what will happen is the narrative will entirely shift towards something else being better and be the pain point used to try and piss other people off.
As Dr Deckard said, perhaps it will be loading times or perhaps it will simply be “our games are better than your games”
Indeed, Infact we already have seen a bit of it already when the first news about the PS5's ssd hit,

Hopefully the difference will be minimal.
With 16-24gb gddr6 ram, a 5gbps ssd can fill that in 3-5 seconds, makes reram rather pointless with an SSD because the data need to transfer from the ssd to the reram. The only benefit would be if theres 16gb of reram the ssd could load the next set of data into the reram ready for when the gddr6 needs it which could result in some uber fast gameplay or zero load times after the initial load.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,983
United Kingdom
I think both consoles will be very similar in terms of power this time, I'd be very surprised if the power difference was big between them. Fingers crossed they are both powerful and fast.

The games are still the thing that matters most though. The X being more powerful than the Pro didn't drastically change sales and PS4 continued to outsell Xbox because they had more and better games.

If Microsoft can make good use of their new studios and make better games / more new IP's, they will be in a much better position next gen.
 
Feb 10, 2018
15,519
That's because we'd be comparing HDD performance which is identical. There was no place for it, just like there would be no place for dog piling the console that is more or less identical in power but drops a tiny few frames here and there.

My point was that if the SSDs aren't identical or close to that (because we know Sony's solution is a custom one that they're proud of and are going to use to market PS5 as "the world's fastest console"), there may begin to be comparisons we haven't seen in a long time and they may not be negligible, easily dissmissable... or maybe they will, we shall see.
It will still be making a mountain out of molehill because the difference will literally be a matter of seconds.
MS have already said that games will open almost instantly.
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,038
What's going to matter are the tools for development moreso than the hardware since they will be similar.
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,930
We should be hearing things soon. Word around the block is new Xbox kits are coming early December. Unless it's a figment of my imagination.
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,930
Or I could listen to Phil who said that they already shipped kits and by common sense we already know that they update them over time (even after launch)
Well it's what I'm getting at. Tom Warren mentioned we should be getting specs soon. So I'm wondering if this is the time since the devkits are hitting the streetz.
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,038
Well it's what I'm getting at. Tom Warren mentioned we should be getting specs soon. So I'm wondering if this is the time since the devkits are hitting the streetz.
As been mentioned before, you don't need to have the kit in order to have the target specs. Info could have dropped a while ago. Kits won't have final specs for some time.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,064
It will still be making a mountain out of molehill because the difference will literally be a matter of seconds.
MS have already said that games will open almost instantly.
SSD can offer improvements other than load times, and then we're talking about more than "waiting a few seconds" because becomes a part of game design. I don't think it should be a priority to at this point disregard the effect that custom solutions could play in the part of innovation. Games can be designed around technical innovation. I hope both consoles have solutions that are as identical as possible for the sake of discourse, but over that I would not choose for one to be gimped just so you don't have to hear why one is better than the other, even if it deserves recognition.

My point here is completely hypothetical. If the performance is negligible then there won't be much discussion to have. If it's not, then we should be allowed to talk about it.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,390
Not sure if the "trying to surprise Sony" part is quite right -- common sense would suggest that, like with the Xbox One, Microsoft is just running behind schedule and will launch pretty hot -- but I've talked to a few third-party developers who said they were frustrated by the lack of info on Scarlett, especially compared to Prospero.
Thanks for this because I knew I read this somewhere. I didn't wanna bring it up without some type of source. I couldn't find where I read it before.
 

DrDeckard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,555
That's because we'd be comparing HDD performance which is identical. There was no place for it, just like there would be no place for dog piling the console that is more or less identical in power but drops a tiny few frames here and there.

My point was that if the SSDs aren't identical or close to that (because we know Sony's solution is a custom one that they're proud of and are going to use to market PS5 as "the world's fastest console"), there may begin to be comparisons we haven't seen in a long time and they may not be negligible, easily dissmissable... or maybe they will, we shall see.
Yeah, hopefully it helps in all games but I can imagine that it will only be PS5 exclusives that can use it for streaming some insane content in.
 
Feb 10, 2018
15,519
SSD can offer improvements other than load times, and then we're talking about more than "waiting a few seconds" because becomes a part of game design. I don't think it should be a priority to at this point disregard the effect that custom solutions could play in the part of innovation. Games can be designed around technical innovation. I hope both consoles have solutions that are as identical as possible for the sake of discourse, but over that I would not choose for one to be gimped just so you don't have to hear why one is better than the other, even if it deserves recognition.

My point here is completely hypothetical. If the performance is negligible then there won't be much discussion to have. If it's not, then we should be allowed to talk about it.
Possibly but I fail to understand how it will work, let's say both have 16gb gddr6 available to games, in a game like star citizen or other open world games 5gbps should be more then adequate to fast travel in a open world, streaming tech is rather sophisticated.

The only way I see sony's ssd being noticibly better is if it had 16gb gddr6 + 16gb ddr4 or reram + gen4 ssd

That way the ssd could load in assets required for the other side of an open world, so if u were to fast travel the ddr4/reram would instantly load in the data needed.
However I think this would be possible with just 16gb gddr6 + 5gbps ssd(see star citizen) , data streaming has come a long way and when the entire ram can be filled in 3 seconds o don't think additional reram or ddr4 would make much of a difference.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,651
If this is true (which I highly doubt it) there is no way MS release this in holiday 2020
It doesn't have to be a big deal. I'm sure issues would pop up for something of this scale. They still have a year to get it all sorted. Well, they'll have ~4 months before production of the console starts but I still think they have enough time to sort things out.
 

Sulik2

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,062
That's surprising a year out from launch, they are banking on out of the box back compat and Halo infinite and Forza for launch it seems.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,443
Imagine a time where people might argue over load time superiority.
I'd rather people argue about that than resolution honestly. Would be a major focus (though likely will regardless based on what we've heard) Long loading actually affects my enjoyment at this point it's so bad in some games *cough Destiny 2 cough* makes for a bad experience. Whereas I'm perfectly fine with1080p res.
Though it'll be funny seeing people argue about what will probably be milliseconds.
 

-Pyromaniac-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,396
The reasoning sounds like total bullshit. They want to surprise Sony? lol. I'm pretty sure it's just not ready. Don't think they'd keep it out of the hands of developers to "surprise Sony" as if this is still the Cold War of gaming 20 years ago.
 
Feb 10, 2018
15,519
I'd rather people argue about that than resolution honestly. Would be a major focus (though likely will regardless based on what we've heard) Long loading actually affects my enjoyment at this point it's so bad in some games *cough Destiny 2 cough* makes for a bad experience. Whereas I'm perfectly fine with1080p res.
Though it'll be funny seeing people argue about what will probably be milliseconds.
If ppl are going to argue about load times then that will open up other very tedious things to argue about, like console noise, OS layout, audio quality, controller options,
It would be gamefaq levels of nonsense.
 

bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,494
Something that could make all of these things make sense when taken together is that Sony was originally targeting a 2019 release and updating to Navi RDNA v1 architecture when their plans changed a couple of years ago, and they are a little bit ahead in terms of when more mature dev kits got out in the timeline. Microsoft was always planning 2020 launch and have some RDNA+ features included (not saying full RDNA v2 implementation, just some portion of follow on architectural feature) that means their more mature dev kits are going to lag some here. And none of this holds back 3rd party developers who have enough next gen target spec range information for both platforms to confidently develop games without having major problems.
 

panda-zebra

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,578
Something that could make all of these things make sense when taken together is that Sony was originally targeting a 2019 release and updating to Navi RDNA v1 architecture when their plans changed a couple of years ago, and they are a little bit ahead in terms of when more mature dev kits got out in the timeline. Microsoft was always planning 2020 launch and have some RDNA+ features included (not saying full RDNA v2 implementation, just some portion of follow on architectural feature) that means their more mature dev kits are going to lag some here. And none of this holds back 3rd party developers who have enough next gen target spec range information for both platforms to confidently develop games without having major problems.
back on the sauce again...
 

bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,494
back on the sauce again...
LOL, the information about Sony targeting 2019 launch comes straight from the sources that are seen as credible. And nobody knows yet what the final silicon for Xbox (or PS5 for that matter) fully includes architecturally regardless of target minimum specs to have developers be able to develop games for launch considering that games which truly leverage the hardware fully happen several years into a generation anyway.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,443
If ppl are going to argue about load times then that will open up other very tedious things to argue about, like console noise, OS layout, audio quality, controller options,
It would be gamefaq levels of nonsense.
So stuff people already argue about? At least load times will be a big focus. Hopefully game sizes becomes an arguing point too, 2 worst things this gen for me is install times/download sizes and loading.
 
Dec 4, 2017
4,917
Brazil
I think it was a combination of several factors. There were too many things going on at one time to say it was just one particular thing.

Power
Price
Brand
Marketing
Etc...

All those played a part in it and while they each have varying weights, they all added to what happened in 2013 and beyond.
Plus all the good will sony earned with the final years of Ps3 and its exclusives
 
Feb 10, 2018
15,519
So stuff people already argue about? At least load times will be a big focus. Hopefully game sizes becomes an arguing point too, 2 worst things this gen for me is install times/download sizes and loading.
I don't think it will be a big focus of comparison though because both systems will have great load times. I think it will be nothing more then console wars the majority of the time.
Next is going to be about the games and services, because everything else will be very similar.
 

Solid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,507
If ppl are going to argue about load times then that will open up other very tedious things to argue about, like console noise, OS layout, audio quality, controller options,
It would be gamefaq levels of nonsense.
Sounds like typical regular-ass console wars to me.
Never underestimate the potential pettiness of some console gamers. Shit knows no bounds.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,443
I don't think it will be a big focus of comparison though because both systems will have great load times. I think it will be nothing more then console wars the majority of the time.
Next is going to be about the games and services, because everything else will be very similar.
The first post was about how it'd be console wars, but people argue about that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, funny? Definitely, because the difference would be pretty much nothing but it being a focus is a good thing.
I'm holding out hope that at least one of them has something to minimize how much we have to wait for installs/downloads to be done, just so it becomes a big talking point, they got out of hand awhile ago and I doubt they are getting smaller next gen. Stream now, download later seems like a good option, but it would be limited to those with good Internet or no data cap, so no ideal for many.
 

jschreier

Press Sneak Fuck
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
602
Not sure where the "Sony was targeting 2019" rumors are coming from. I kept telling people in that one thread that "team 2019" was going to be disappointed, and we were reporting as early as April 2018 that PS5 likely wouldn't be out until 2020. I guess it's possible that at some point Sony was targeting 2019, but all of these companies are looking at every possible release window and gaming out every possible price/spec/launch permutation. As far as I know, all the serious next-gen conversations have revolved around fall 2020 for a long time.
 

Gamer17

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,852
Not sure where the "Sony was targeting 2019" rumors are coming from. I kept telling people in that one thread that "team 2019" was going to be disappointed, and we were reporting as early as April 2018 that PS5 likely wouldn't be out until 2020. I guess it's possible that at some point Sony was targeting 2019, but all of these companies are looking at every possible release window and gaming out every possible price/spec/launch permutation. As far as I know, all the serious next-gen conversations have revolved around fall 2020 for a long time.
Thanks for the info. I m assuming Sony is just ahead schedule wise for dev kits. Not a bad thing or good thing but it is what it is. Correct?
 

Matt

The Terror that Flaps in the Night
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
3,155
Something that could make all of these things make sense when taken together is that Sony was originally targeting a 2019 release and updating to Navi RDNA v1 architecture when their plans changed a couple of years ago, and they are a little bit ahead in terms of when more mature dev kits got out in the timeline. Microsoft was always planning 2020 launch and have some RDNA+ features included (not saying full RDNA v2 implementation, just some portion of follow on architectural feature) that means their more mature dev kits are going to lag some here. And none of this holds back 3rd party developers who have enough next gen target spec range information for both platforms to confidently develop games without having major problems.
It seems to be that MS is behind simply because of their own internal reasons.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
2,510
LOL, the information about Sony targeting 2019 launch comes straight from the sources that are seen as credible. And nobody knows yet what the final silicon for Xbox (or PS5 for that matter) fully includes architecturally regardless of target minimum specs to have developers be able to develop games for launch considering that games which truly leverage the hardware fully happen several years into a generation anyway.
Which source confirms Sony were originally targeting a 2019 release?
I don’t think the CPU, GPU and SSD tech had any chance of being in place for a 2019 release.
 

bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,494
Not sure where the "Sony was targeting 2019" rumors are coming from. I kept telling people in that one thread that "team 2019" was going to be disappointed, and we were reporting as early as April 2018 that PS5 likely wouldn't be out until 2020. I guess it's possible that at some point Sony was targeting 2019, but all of these companies are looking at every possible release window and gaming out every possible price/spec/launch permutation. As far as I know, all the serious next-gen conversations have revolved around fall 2020 for a long time.
I believe that the Sony thing has been said by moderators on here and Klee too, but if nothing else it shows that nobody really has the full story on things even if hearing pieces of things in various places.