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Anas

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
914
The notion that Avengers 2 was just the same as Avengers 1 is really, really odd. Like, Avengers 1 is still a great movie today. It works really well, the chemistry holds up, the villain is great to watch, the action sequences fun.

Avengers 2 had none of that. It was over quippy, making the dialogue seem forced. The character interactions were poor. The villain was a *joke*, and the end sequence so utterly bizarre and dumb it hurt.

- All Avengers attacking at the same shot during the opening
- Hulkbuster vs Hulk scene
- Black widow motor cycle scene
- Hawkeye surprise
- The new Avengers scene

Few scenes that made the movie away from being "bad"
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
I agree, a lot of those shots out of context are great...but a handful of good scenes out of context does not make a movie good. Ultron is a bad movie, I'd honestly put it below Incredible Hulk and Thor 2 as the worst MCU film to date.
 

Anas

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
914
I agree, a lot of those shots out of context are great...but a handful of good scenes out of context does not make a movie good. Ultron is a bad movie, I'd honestly put it below Incredible Hulk and Thor 2 as the worst MCU film to date.

It's was decent movie just like Man of Steel and IM2,3

Not so good not so bad
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
Avengers is a classic super hero movie. And one of the most iconic ones in the genre. It definitely earned a spot on the iconic super hero film list alongside movies like the '78 Superman, '89 Batman, The Dark Knight, and so on.
 

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,817
Ignoring that the first Avengers movie is gonna basically be Star Wars for an entire generation is....lol
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,020
both statements are hella disagreeable.

Well yeah, there will never be a classic MCU movie. They're basically a glass ceiling and a glass floor on how good or bad they can all be. For better and for worse, the power of Marvel Studios is consistent three star blockbuster entertainment, no more and no less.

but AoU is not worse than Thor 2 c'mon now
 

sephi22

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
873
In this era of superhero movie overdose and cinematic universe being common Avengers doesn't seem special in hindsight.

But go back a few years and that movie existing was even a miracle. Sure it might not have aged that well but the first Avengers is a special and iconic movie.
 

Tobor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,566
Richmond, VA
Thinking about Cap's costume in Avengers...it's 1000x better than the garbage Flash is wearing in JL.

Hopefully they hire a competent costume designer for Flashpoint or whatever he's in next.
 

feyder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,156
Ignoring that the first Avengers movie is gonna basically be Star Wars for an entire generation is....lol
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the MCU films at all (I've only seen Iron Man 1 and Avengers 1) but I'm not going to pretend Avengers wasn't a phenomenon and a massive moment in pop culture.
 

PaypayTR

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,108
People here are overreacting popularities of JL and its members. Wonder Woman Aquaman Cyborg Green Lantern were never that big outside of USA i know this might shook some of you but. Most money these earn comes from outside of USA and people are getting knowing these characters and most of comics with these movies. So for most people WW was first time they saw her.

So it doesnt matter which was more popular before
 

Mr_Derp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
347
I will still keep faith in the DC universe. I still have faith in Marvel's. X-men (excluding deadpool) not so much.

I enjoyed SS, WW, and MoS. BvS was bad.

Marvel has about as many bad films as good ones. About 50% imo. DC just needs a better plan and direction.
 

Creamium

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,707
Belgium
So I was thinking that Justice League (the movie) was a rushed attempt to establish DCEU the same way Avengers movie did, but upon closer look, Avengers was the sixth movie in MCU while Justice League was actually the fifth. So they were just one movie apart, but it really doesn't feel that way. Avengers felt like a culmination while Justice League felt like someone haphazardly tried to put these characters on screen.

They really wanted to get to JLA, and fast. For The Avengers we were already introduced to all of the major characters in different movies and it had the whole 'it all lead up to this!' feel, while JLA is rushed with half of the team having their first appearance in that movie (well outside of those intro teases in BvS). Say Aquaman and Flash had great solo outings before JLA, that would make me want to go see the team movie. Now in this post MoS and BvS world I feel like there is no need to.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,088
I would absolutely say Thor 2 was better than Avengers 2. Not even that close in my mind - AoU is easily the worse of all the modern Marvel films. Thor 2 was pointless but at least it had some relatively workable humour, some neat CGI shots and more Loki.

Ultron just felt utterly soulless. As if they didn't know what they were trying to do at all so used a terrible villain and hoped to paper it over all with quips. Malekith, for all his bland non-existence in thor 2, at least doesn't wildly overstay his wisecracking welcome like Ultron does (and has better motivation).
 

SmarmySmurf

Banned
Nov 5, 2017
1,931
WB shouldn't waste time using Marvel as a measuring stick, they should just stick to making decent but shat upon movies. WW was above average, BvS (and probably JL) are good movies, but Marvel's are better and BvS/JL do not "deserve" to do better just because Superman, Batman and WW are iconic.

And people here should be happy, whatever they are fans of, that DCEU is not breaking records on name alone because things succeeding just due to branding sucks. For once the general public is behaving right, the better movies are performing better. We should celebrate this.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,065
People here are overreacting popularities of JL and its members. Wonder Woman Aquaman Cyborg Green Lantern were never that big outside of USA i know this might shook some of you but. Most money these earn comes from outside of USA and people are getting knowing these characters and most of comics with these movies. So for most people WW was first time they saw her.

So it doesnt matter which was more popular before
I've tried to explain this before on other forums and people just don't seem to get this or ignore the posts.

I'm pretty sure most people in the UK only known Green Lantern, Aquaman and maybe Flash from jokes on Family Guy or The Big Bang Theory.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,450
A classic?


Yeah, I'm out. I can't post in this thread with a straight face after that. It's not even the best MCU film featuring The Avengers.
I think Avengers 1, Iron Man and Guardians will probably be seen as classics. Iron Man and Avengers were essential for making the MCU a phenomenon and Guardians is a great comical adventure.

On the DCEU side, Wonder Woman has a chance as well to be seeen as a classic since it's like the first really good and successful superheroine movie (although I thought the Ares stuff ruined it at the end)
 

Temp_User

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,707
What is this im reading? Look just because DC's 'Avengers' was a critical and financial disappointment doesn't mean we should belittle the impact of Marvel's Avengers in the movie-making business and pop-culture in general. Regardless of your taste in movies, that shit is a landmark movie.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,666
Avengers was a game-changing movie, and actually really fucking fun at the time. Perfect example of a crowd pleaser. It's not trying to be anything than what it is: a group of superheroes coming from disparate movies to work together. And Whedon actually managed to make it work. Looking at DC fucking up twice, you can't tell me that was easy to do.

I'd re-watch Spidey 3 before I go back to any DCEU movie, including Wonder Woman

source.gif
spider-man-3-dancing.gif
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,401
New York
Ultron just felt utterly soulless. As if they didn't know what they were trying to do at all so used a terrible villain and hoped to paper it over all with quips. Malekith, for all his bland non-existence in thor 2, at least doesn't wildly overstay his wisecracking welcome like Ultron does (and has better motivation).
Unlike a number of other films and characters such as Dr Strange, Ultron being super quippy made perfect sense from a storytelling perspective. I can understand not necessarily liking it but it's nowhere near as forced as say most of Strange's jokes.
 

y2dvd

Member
Nov 14, 2017
2,481
Two things:

1) The Avengers is an absolute classic. Great reviews, the first CBM team up from different IPs (yes, even if it's under the same umbrella) and amazing BO success that had studios scrambling to create its own cinematic universe. It had impact culturally and in the industry.

2) Gal Gadot was ok in WW, but nothing more. I thought she struggled with a few lines and honestly felt anyone else could've replaced her. I can't say the same for Chris Evans and RDJ.
 

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,817
Bingo. There is no way to minimize the significance of the first Avengers film.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the MCU films at all (I've only seen Iron Man 1 and Avengers 1) but I'm not going to pretend Avengers wasn't a phenomenon and a massive moment in pop culture.

Like, this is the twilight zone. The movie was the first of its kind, made a billion dollars, and spawned the most successful film franchise of all time. It's absolutely a classic.

People here are overreacting popularities of JL and its members. Wonder Woman Aquaman Cyborg Green Lantern were never that big outside of USA i know this might shook some of you but. Most money these earn comes from outside of USA and people are getting knowing these characters and most of comics with these movies. So for most people WW was first time they saw her.

So it doesnt matter which was more popular before

This doesn't matter. No one knew who the fuck any of the Avengers were, except maybe the Hulk. Conversely, Batman and Superman are two of the three most iconic superheroes of all time, world wide. Their names transcend comic books. That WB couldn't make a hit movie with that type of built in name recognition absolutely matters.
 

Disco

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,458
eh I think now that Jackman is retired the only irreplaceable heroes in comic book movies right now are RDJ and Ryan Reynolds' Deadpool.

I feel like there's a list of people who could do Cap and Diana just as easily as the ones cast right now if not better. although there's no question they look damn good in the part.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
I will still keep faith in the DC universe. I still have faith in Marvel's. X-men (excluding deadpool) not so much.

I enjoyed SS, WW, and MoS. BvS was bad.

Marvel has about as many bad films as good ones. About 50% imo. DC just needs a better plan and direction.
The only MCU movies you could ever even try to argue are anywhere near bad movies are Hulk, Iron Man 2 and Thor 2. Even then,other than Hulk, those are more like unremarkable (there's a spectrum here, not just good or bad) and somewhat by the books with some good stuff thrown in there, not outright incoherent garbage with nothing enjoyable to them.

Kind of like pop songs where the singer is good, there is an ok catchy melody but all in all no one will put them among the GOAT pop songs or listen to after 6 months. Like Thor 2 had death of Thor's mother, Thor & Loki shenanigans, Loki's "death", the portal jumping action near the end and a basic if a bit unimaginative "when things align bad guys can get access to great power if they are not stopped" storyline which might not set anyone's world on fire but it gave a coherent enough a framework for a story where some enjoyable things happen.

50% bad my ass. There's hardly a single movie that is outright bad like actually horrible movies like Suicide Squad and FantFourStic are. Mediocre at worst.
 

burgervan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,327
Unlike a number of other films and characters such as Dr Strange, Ultron being super quippy made perfect sense from a storytelling perspective. I can understand not necessarily liking it but it's nowhere near as forced as say most of Strange's jokes.

This. I actually really liked Dr. Strange but the humor was so forced. There are examples of that in all the Marvel movies, but in that movie especially.

On the topic of AoU, if you take it on a scene by scene basis, it's actually pretty good. It just doesn't work as a whole. The scene at the end with Ultron and Vision might be my favorite scene in the MCU.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,401
New York
I think some of y'all have forgotten how bad Iron Man 2 was.

It had Tony literally pissing in his suit.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,789
Avengers was a benchmark setter. Having rewatched it yesterday it's still fucking amazing. It's just such a satisfying movie that elegantly combines every character, instantly defines each and every one, and does the really cheeky thing of making "can this entire movie's concept actually work?" the basis of the movie's story. You want them so desperately to all be able to team up, everyone in the movie points out how it can't be done, all for that satisfying payoff of the iconic panning camera shot of every character and Silvestri's now iconic theme. Even now when I watch it, I pump my fists in triumph when that moment happens. The ending is just such an incredible encapsulation that gets me a little bit misty-eyed when I realize how the mad men actually pulled it off. "The Avengers are dangerous; every world knows this", and in Nick Fury's words, none of it was to make a statement - but to fulfill a promise.

Avengers 2 fails to meet the benchmark but it's still pretty good. If anything I have a lot of delayed appreciation toward many of it's scenes. "Less than the sum of it's parts" is a good way to describe it; just about every scene is great, capitalizing on character dynamics and personalities, but it is admittedly bloated under the weight of it all. Reminds me a little bit of The Dark Knight Rises; yeah it's all great but it's not exactly elegant. That said, Bobvids' critique on CinemaSins' Everything Wrong With video actually made me appreciate Age of Ultron a lot more. It's a good watch that I really recommend if someone's a bit split on the movie since there's a surprising amount of attention to detail I never appreciated.
 

Brera

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
441
I feel sorry for WB.

Batman v superman gets shitted on unfairly , I think many wanted it to fail.

Snyder is a decent director but I think WB suits are to blame not the talent.

If they had released the extended cut of bvs, they wouldn't be in this message
 

Epcott

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,279
US, East Coast
I don't see the sales tanking too much. As a superhero movie, it was adequite... like a darker version of Avengers without the Hulk and a charasmatic villain like Loki. That aside, it did its job in combining key players and giving each their own story (even though Aquaman and Cyborgs felt cut short from what they originally planned).

Can't wait to see the sales data today.
 

X Borealis

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
207
Has James wan made an actually good movie? The conjuring arent good imo, and I love horror films. So not sure why we should be excited for his Aquaman, given how... Not good Jason momoa was in the justice league as Aquaman.

Wan is one of my favorite new horror directors. I absolutely adore how he can create intense atmosphere and awesome characters. I also liked his Fast & Furious, really fun stuff. He's actually one of the most succesful directors in the millenium. Both critics and audience likes him and his conjuringverse has already made over billion dollars (and cost like a bit over 100 million to make). And for the record, I've been a horror movie fan since the 80s.

I don't see the sales tanking too much.

Can't wait to see the sales data today.

JL will get crushed.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
Age of Ultron simply suffered from having way too much going on. Too many subplots, character introductions, connective tissue etc.

When it's good, it's really good and Whedon at his best. The attack on the HYDRA base, the party at Avengers tower with the birth of Ultron, the Hawkeye safe house, birth of Vision, the "born yesterday" scene...

Sadly it also had the Nat and Bruce romance subplot, Thor taking a dive into a hot tub to watch the Infinity War teaser, the twins that weren't really all that developed and a final bout in Sokovia that was just too close to the Chitauri attack.

Ultimately, I appreciate what it did for many of the characters even though I wasn't enamoured with all of it. At worst it was mildly disappointing.
 

Kain

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,610
I watched the extended cut of BvS and Lex and Martha are still there, so it's a terribad movie too.
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,020
I dont think there's that much difference between the two Avengers films honestly. One is a 7/10, the other is a 6/10. And I'd probably rewatch either one before Civil War again.
 

mjc

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,882
Age of Ultron simply suffered from having way too much going on. Too many subplots, character introductions, connective tissue etc.

When it's good, it's really good and Whedon at his best. The attack on the HYDRA base, the party at Avengers tower with the birth of Ultron, the Hawkeye safe house, birth of Vision, the "born yesterday" scene...

Sadly it also had the Nat and Bruce romance subplot, Thor taking a dive into a hot tub to watch the Infinity War teaser, the twins that weren't really all that developed and a final bout in Sokovia that was just too close to the Chitauri attack.

Ultimately, I appreciate what it did for many of the characters even though I wasn't enamoured with all of it. At worst it was mildly disappointing.

You hit the nail on the head. Too busy for it's own good, but there were some awesome scenes in it.
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
People are truly spoiled when ANY MCU movie gets called "horrible" or even "bad."

Like, I'm guessing no one saw Transformers 5 or Book of Henry or hmmm... Suicide Squad.
 

hendersonhank

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,390
I seem to be the only one who prefers Ultron to the first Avengers. First one was boring as hell. And I don't know why everyone hates Ultron himself so much.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
Avengers was a benchmark setter. Having rewatched it yesterday it's still fucking amazing. It's just such a satisfying movie that elegantly combines every character, instantly defines each and every one, and does the really cheeky thing of making "can this entire movie's concept actually work?" the basis of the movie's story. You want them so desperately to all be able to team up, everyone in the movie points out how it can't be done, all for that satisfying payoff of the iconic panning camera shot of every character and Silvestri's now iconic theme. Even now when I watch it, I pump my fists in triumph when that moment happens. The ending is just such an incredible encapsulation that gets me a little bit misty-eyed when I realize how the mad men actually pulled it off. "The Avengers are dangerous; every world knows this", and in Nick Fury's words, none of it was to make a statement - but to fulfill a promise.

Avengers 2 fails to meet the benchmark but it's still pretty good. If anything I have a lot of delayed appreciation toward many of it's scenes. "Less than the sum of it's parts" is a good way to describe it; just about every scene is great, capitalizing on character dynamics and personalities, but it is admittedly bloated under the weight of it all. Reminds me a little bit of The Dark Knight Rises; yeah it's all great but it's not exactly elegant. That said, Bobvids' critique on CinemaSins' Everything Wrong With video actually made me appreciate Age of Ultron a lot more. It's a good watch that I really recommend if someone's a bit split on the movie since there's a surprising amount of attention to detail I never appreciated.
I think most everything is better in Age of Ultron than the first movie (cinematography, most character interactions, action, most of the storyline, lots of individual scenes that are better than almost anything in 1) but it is a bit bloated/has pacing issues due to some mandated universe building + "bad guy lifts up a huge city high up the atmosphere to drop it on Earth to destroy all of mankind" is a bit too grandiose and silly a plan for suspension of disbelief + Ultron could've been handled better, all of which lead to the overall experience being a bit worse than the original. So yeah, less than a sum of its parts describes it perfectly.