Lol.
As yet another victim of this fucked up society, you want me to approach a MAN.... and ASK him for a date?
Are you mad??????????
Literally the most terrifying thing for me help
Fair.
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Why do men of late feel they need to be super attractive and wealthy in the succeed in the dating scene?
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Fair.
As someone 6' on the dot I'd lie and tell them I'm 6' plus 1 millimetre tall.
If a conventionally attractive woman is not getting asked out on a date especially with apps then I call BS. They gotta be living on some remote island because so many men just swipe yes on every women to "play the odds".
I just think a lot of men don't put in the effort required and also have high standards. That's not shaming, that's just how a lot of men act whether they want to admit it or not. Like, don't apps tell you someone liked you but you gotta pay to see who it is? I highly doubt a sizable amount of men in an area with a sizable population are not getting even one like.
OP
OP
So, for the record, I'm not a woman in this space!
However, do you any know any single women in the dating space?
Their struggle is a bit different. But they still struggle! too! And yes, many may not want to use the apps due to safety or trauma. Many quit after getting tons of unsolicited dick pics and so on.
Do you blame them for not being able to get a guy? The heterosexual dating space is full of conventionally attractive women that also have tons of trouble dating. That's why we do need more empathy. It's hard out there!
It's why there is also "feminine dating coach" grift that target these women too.
I think it has to do with the cost of survival in certain areas of the country is so damn high. If not that it's the desire to leave their shit hole town.
It's not all about money but it's all about money. It's unavoidable. No one wants to willingly be swimming in debt intentionally.
You don't have to be wealthy but you have to be both on the same page to live within your means.
Then again, if your partner / intended partner don't want to live within their means and want more, they will find someone that can
It's not all about money but it's all about money. It's unavoidable. No one wants to willingly be swimming in debt intentionally.
You don't have to be wealthy but you have to be both on the same page to live within your means.
Then again, if your partner / intended partner don't want to live within their means and want more, they will find someone that can
I am empathetic to a limit.
If someone wants to not use an app for safety reasons then I got no problem with that. Not sure why you're bringing that up with what I said, but OK.
I think if you can get interest but you decide to not act on that interest for reasons outside of anything important then you kind of shoot yourself in the foot and my empathy won't extend.
Like, I would be absolutely shocked to see a profile of a conventionally attractive woman not getting and likes. There are too many thirsty men on these apps to not even get one lol
I think you're strongly underestimating how toxic guys are on dating apps and how low the bar actually is.
Do you want to know what the actual, non-idiotic way of actually achieving the desired result is?
Write: "Height doesn't matter to me. Men of all sizes are welcome to reach out."
Ive met men who show me their junk after I explicitly said I don't want to see it (trauma-related but I shouldnt need to mention that part). So I'm not surprised tbh
I don't know about wealth since I've never felt like that's relevant to the dating scene (and if your partner only cares about your wealth, I have bad news for you...)
But as for being attractive, as someone who went from 320lbs to 220lbs, I can tell you there is a very big difference in how people treat and see you. My personality hasn't changed at all since even when I was bigger I still has plenty of confidence, and I did date multiple girls but the main difference is I had to put alot more effort to even be seen.
I don't know who said it, but I remember a quote that said that when your overweight it's like your invisible to the world, but once you lose it it's like your finally here.
I always thought that was bullshit until I lived it.
But as for being attractive, as someone who went from 320lbs to 220lbs, I can tell you there is a very big difference in how people treat and see you. My personality hasn't changed at all since even when I was bigger I still has plenty of confidence, and I did date multiple girls but the main difference is I had to put alot more effort to even be seen.
I don't know who said it, but I remember a quote that said that when your overweight it's like your invisible to the world, but once you lose it it's like your finally here.
I always thought that was bullshit until I lived it.
Interesting logic. So what's the reason some profiles say "What do you call men under 6ft? Friends"?
One of the reason us non-cis straight men find it hard to sympathize with this issue is... that it's not an issue exclusive to cis straight men.
App dating sucks for everyone involved except for a chosen/lucky few who only have good experiences. Like I've had amazing discussions with other people in my community about how hard dating can be (especially for those of us who are not considered conventionally attractive) but the mainstream discourse about it is so annoyingly shallow I can't stand it. Especially since a lot of mens criticism essentially boil down to "women make too many demands of men on dating apps!" as if they themselves don't do the exact same thing. Like sure women who make height-related demands on their future partners are shitty but try to exist as a fat woman on a dating app for a day. It's not that different.
I understand the frustration and annoyance here, I truly do, but I don't know what the discussion about this issue is supposed to do. Like the men bringing up dating app statistics, even if they might be unaware that this is what they are doing, are essentially telling women that they are ruining the app dating experience for "not perfect" men.
Like, honestly, all the dudes who complain about this: what is the ideal solution here? For women to lower their standards when looking for a future partner, or what?
App dating sucks for everyone involved except for a chosen/lucky few who only have good experiences. Like I've had amazing discussions with other people in my community about how hard dating can be (especially for those of us who are not considered conventionally attractive) but the mainstream discourse about it is so annoyingly shallow I can't stand it. Especially since a lot of mens criticism essentially boil down to "women make too many demands of men on dating apps!" as if they themselves don't do the exact same thing. Like sure women who make height-related demands on their future partners are shitty but try to exist as a fat woman on a dating app for a day. It's not that different.
I understand the frustration and annoyance here, I truly do, but I don't know what the discussion about this issue is supposed to do. Like the men bringing up dating app statistics, even if they might be unaware that this is what they are doing, are essentially telling women that they are ruining the app dating experience for "not perfect" men.
Like, honestly, all the dudes who complain about this: what is the ideal solution here? For women to lower their standards when looking for a future partner, or what?
Are you seeing this, or are you hearing people saying they see this?
OP
OP
No. I don't think the answer is to grovel for dates.
The solution could be to not only rely on apps.
There's a very popular book called How Not To Die Alone, written by a Hinge executive.
It's funny because she's big on apps. She's an executive at Hinge after all. But she said she would've swiped left on her current person, he now husband. Whom she met at work!
Here's a good article on the book:
How To Not Read How To Not Die Alone
A new piece of single-shaming hits the shelves.
shanisilver.medium.com
And this is written by a cis straight woman. Not some dude complaining about not getting matches.
Also, I don't think the cis straight men obsession with looks, something women deal with way more, is good either. Many men want trophies, not partners. So I don't disagree that there is a shallowness in modern dating from cis straight men.
Again, it's a very complex topic that is finally getting more think pieces and research on it.
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Im a short balding fat man who is on a slightly above average wage. Fortunately I met my wife 19 years ago when a man could just get drunk with a girl and wake up the next day to mutually decide that you quite liked each other. I really dont think i would do well if anything went wrong between us.
Everyone who thinks you can't get laid if you aren't rich and/or look like a young Brad Pitt. To be fair, if you're targeting a certain kind of woman, that might as well be true, but dating a model shouldn't be the end all be all.
Have you seen it on dating apps, or people online making the "joke"
This just reads like a blow off. I'm sure this might apply to some people. If it was the case for everyone, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all.
Ah, well then just move on from that person. That's a deal breaker for you, and evidently them... So keep looking through other profiles.
Admittedly I haven't been on dating apps in over 10 years, and I know the landscape has changed... But If a person was going to put this in their bio, even if it wasn't there, would you want to date them?
Oh yeah for sure. I'm over six foot myself but always swipe on those that say stuff like that, such a bad look.
The height queen thing is real. Sorry, short kings. I enjoy you all and don't discriminate myself on this, my favorite internet community.
I'm a little special, but not extremely so. I'm 6'4" and in very good shape for a man my age. I haven't eaten meat since the 90s, and actually spend time outdoors and go on long hikes instead of just...putting that in a profile along with a pic of the one hike a person was on back in 2017 or something to try to seem well-rounded. Unless you are trail running--which I don't do anymore because risking a mechanical injury out in the middle of nowhere is a terrible idea--then you are unlikely to keep up with an experienced hiker with legs this long, pushing the pace.
There is definitely a type of woman, tall granola types themselves, who are all over that shit. I got a lot of rejections initially until I found my dating lane, and truly discovered whose "type" I was. And unfortunately, at least several admitted to me that it was all about the height to them, such that they were willing to look past my old car, low paying public sector job, and average at best facial features, to get that "precious" tall man, that unicorn, at their side.
I don't know what women are really getting at by trying to filter like that, because the closest I ever got to discovering the truth was "I just like tall guys." Probably penis size? There isn't a filter for that on any dating app, so they're just playing the averages? Honestly I don't know, and everyone seems too embarrassed to admit the truth.
I'm a little special, but not extremely so. I'm 6'4" and in very good shape for a man my age. I haven't eaten meat since the 90s, and actually spend time outdoors and go on long hikes instead of just...putting that in a profile along with a pic of the one hike a person was on back in 2017 or something to try to seem well-rounded. Unless you are trail running--which I don't do anymore because risking a mechanical injury out in the middle of nowhere is a terrible idea--then you are unlikely to keep up with an experienced hiker with legs this long, pushing the pace.
There is definitely a type of woman, tall granola types themselves, who are all over that shit. I got a lot of rejections initially until I found my dating lane, and truly discovered whose "type" I was. And unfortunately, at least several admitted to me that it was all about the height to them, such that they were willing to look past my old car, low paying public sector job, and average at best facial features, to get that "precious" tall man, that unicorn, at their side.
I don't know what women are really getting at by trying to filter like that, because the closest I ever got to discovering the truth was "I just like tall guys." Probably penis size? There isn't a filter for that on any dating app, so they're just playing the averages? Honestly I don't know, and everyone seems too embarrassed to admit the truth.
I don't see why else someone would think you need to be rich and super good looking to date. I doubt anyone who is actually rich and looks like a male model would go for women who are average or even non attractive conventionally. I see men who aren't attractive nor rich having healthy relationships everyday. Maybe it's different in my country, i guess. I would put more focus on developing healthy social skills, imo.
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I mean I was speaking generally and acknowledge that women aren't a monolith. Are there women out there for whom height is important, sure. Attraction is subjective and people like what they like.
Is it as commonplace as guys who are weirdly insecure about it would like to claim? Fuck no and I'd argue at least some of the women do think height is important only think that because shorter guys have a complex about them wearing heels and stuff.
Yeah i cannot believe that someone here tried to tell us that it wasn't a thing lol. But from my experience, most girls that had something with the height were not tall granola types. They were 5"2~5"5.
Points already addressed in the thread with detailed examples from many people. If you didn't read those, then I don't see why I should try here.
Dating apps are blackholes for self-confidence. I'm not surprised men blame their failure to find someone on attractiveness, at the end of the day that's the first thing we see and when there are hundreds of potential others, why investigate someone that you aren't instantly attracted to. It also doesn't help that the app algorithms push the most attractive people to the front, creating unrealistic standards. I also think pictures and bios just become numbing when you're looking through so many of them for so many years, weeding more people out. I'm not sure how you combat the problem, dating offline works if you know how to and can find single people, but the reality is for a lot of shy folks like me it is significantly harder to ask someone out without knowing if the other person is even remotely interested in you.
Fair enough, i just hope you or anyone else doesn't end up regretting adopting this line of thinking down the line.
Yeah, it's something people need to wake the fuck up and realize it's not true for the most part. What is true is that to do relatively well in the dating scene you do need to improve in your self esteem and above all, your self love. Some men just rely way too much on their looks or wealth to date, and in a society where money gives you wheels to do stuff, surely it can help. But it only helps you in some degree. Because, you see, the thing is that looks and wealth is an easy way to look at yourself and find something that makes you say "I'm a high value man". But if your self worth and self love is solely based on your looks and wealth, but nothing else, that shit will end blowing in your face sooner or later.
The thing is that, by existing, by being human, you are already valuable enough and lovable enough. You gotta start from that base and improve from there. There are things that are far more valuable than looks and wealth in the long term and are harder to develop (because it takes consistency above all). What about your self knowledge? How about knowing how to regulate your emotions? How about knowing where to place healthy boundaries? How about working on your vulnerabilty? Are you a good listener? Are you kind and warm towards the people you care about? Do you do the work on yourself? These are the things that are actually important.
I can't say I'm a "succesful" dater, but I can't say I'm doing bad. I do not swim in dates and matches and whatever, but I do date pretty consistently. I don't consider myself ugly, but I'm not a super model and I'm not wealthy at all, yet I'm finding myself 90% of the time dating women who are objectively more succesful than me. They have better careers, make more money, some have their own place, etc. Me living with my family, still finding my ground career wise, and a whole lot of stuff, are things that they don't give a crap about.
And if I find someone who cares about those stuff, you know what? They aren't for me. I want to meet people that cares about people because of our humanity instead of those stuff.
Looks are subjective and you can't expect to be liked by everybody, as you won't like some people either. It's just as it is. The sooner you accept that fact, the faster you'll realize that everybody just works on their strengths look-wise and their "imperfection" is what makes them unique.
My opinion is that a lot of men think that they need to be super attractive and wealthy to do well because realizing that it's not like that implies that they need to work on themselves. And those same men have 0 sense of responsability in their own lives.
The thing is that, by existing, by being human, you are already valuable enough and lovable enough. You gotta start from that base and improve from there. There are things that are far more valuable than looks and wealth in the long term and are harder to develop (because it takes consistency above all). What about your self knowledge? How about knowing how to regulate your emotions? How about knowing where to place healthy boundaries? How about working on your vulnerabilty? Are you a good listener? Are you kind and warm towards the people you care about? Do you do the work on yourself? These are the things that are actually important.
I can't say I'm a "succesful" dater, but I can't say I'm doing bad. I do not swim in dates and matches and whatever, but I do date pretty consistently. I don't consider myself ugly, but I'm not a super model and I'm not wealthy at all, yet I'm finding myself 90% of the time dating women who are objectively more succesful than me. They have better careers, make more money, some have their own place, etc. Me living with my family, still finding my ground career wise, and a whole lot of stuff, are things that they don't give a crap about.
And if I find someone who cares about those stuff, you know what? They aren't for me. I want to meet people that cares about people because of our humanity instead of those stuff.
Looks are subjective and you can't expect to be liked by everybody, as you won't like some people either. It's just as it is. The sooner you accept that fact, the faster you'll realize that everybody just works on their strengths look-wise and their "imperfection" is what makes them unique.
My opinion is that a lot of men think that they need to be super attractive and wealthy to do well because realizing that it's not like that implies that they need to work on themselves. And those same men have 0 sense of responsability in their own lives.
I've been with my wife for 25 years now so the whole online dating scene was never part of my life experience.
The odd part is I've always thought the technology behind dating apps & online services would serve as an ideal matchmaking service.
Contrasted against my wife & I just randomly meeting at one of those huge warehouse industrial/goth/rave clubs of the late 90s. We were lucky in that our temperaments and more importantly individual maturity growth tracks stood the test of time over the passing decades as we segued out of young adulthood into middle age.
But as an outsider, the technology involved in pairing people up in the modern age always felt fascinating to me. I must have idealized it in my mind (i.e. finding the "perfect partner") as all reports I've heard back from those actually using the software & services have been pretty middling to dire. Guess what I keep hearing is that the human factor ruins these apps. People completely lying about their traits and stats to make themselves look better. Or even the idealized connection just not having that undefinable spark.
Before online they used to call them The Personals in newspapers where singles would attempt to connect with one another. In my mind I always thought the technology that followed in this wake would be more targeted & sophisticated, leading to better matches.
Guess that really isn't the case so much.
The line of thinking that model or not, people on and off dating apps are fickle?
Sure ...
Good looking out.
I never denied that, did i? I was specifically talking about feeling you need to be rich and super good looking to date anyone, which is also the topic of this thread, but go off i guess.
Are you joking? Like do you have any actual experience on apps as a man? It's rampant, to the point where being short is a summary handicap on your ability to get matches.
And think - why would men lie about their height? Similar reason as to why women lie about their weight. Totally toxic, highly prevalent emphasis on needing to be a certain height. Difference is that it's much more socially acceptable to shit on a man for his height.
There are researches that shows that height is a big factor for a man socially, especially when talking about dating.
As someone who's really short (1.63m), nobody respects you and in dating is even worse lol
As someone who's really short (1.63m), nobody respects you and in dating is even worse lol
Enjoyed reading this and found some bits inspirational, even. It sounds like you have a really healthy and evolved approach to all of this. Thanks for sharing!
I don't think this is a problem with dating apps per-say, but you're just finding out why you were getting rejected before dating apps.
If someone wasn't going to date you or go out with you because of your height or some other preference, they wouldn't say it to your face... But that probably still factored into their decision of it. Now you're just seeing it, and if it's a deal breaker for them, it wasn't going to work anyway.
No buts it's all
It's amazing to me that guys will post stuff like "Women are only attracted to men who have *insert thing they're personally insecure about*" like women are a species of exotic bird or something and then wonder out loud why women aren't interested in them.
And it's like, my dude, they are. Just not the specific type of woman you're attracted to.
The best advice I ever got about this was to go out and talk - Like actually sit down and have a proper discussion - with a close female friend I trusted about what they find attractive to get me out of the headspace that women are a monolith.
Advice I've given to other guys only for them to respond "I don't know any women I could have that conversation with" or something to that effect and getting them to realise that, that might have something to do with why they're not having any luck was like pulling fucking teeth.
I believe I saw a study that showed definitively tall men with good hair are more successful both professionally and in dating.
The unrealistic expectations of people is a good start. So many times on dating apps I have found people that say, "I want a person who has a Master's degree, goes to the gym a lot, and makes at least $XXX,XXX per year". I saw those quite a lot, so I feel those really do not help in building confidence. Dating apps show the worst of the dating scene.
Spot on. I have no experience with dating apps but have friends who use them and that is how they describe it. It's basically the NFL combine.