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Why do men of late feel they need to be super attractive and wealthy in the succeed in the dating scene?
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It's true that height is something a lot of people care about. It sucks, but really, we need to flip the story.
Why would you date someone who gives too much importance to those things? Do you want to be with someone who thinks like that? If the answer is no... then, consider that all of them aren't a match for you and start focusing on the type of person you do want to date. You may think that this leaves you with less options around, but no, because height is as much of a preference as it's many other physical traits. You just filtered out a lot of people you don't want to be with on basis in how they think. And that's fantastic. Because that's something far deeper than how good looking they are.
Start focusing on who you would like to date instead of who would like to date you. You have agency in this too.
A publicly funded online dating app actually sounds like a very good idea to me. Replacing the profit incentive built on the exploitation of lonely men with actually getting people together can only be a good thing.
This is a very positive view of the interaction and honestly, I had a similar lightbulb type of moment when I was actively dating. Like somebody isn't interested in me because of some random reason? Fine, so be it. On to the next person. Wouldn't want an uninterested person as my partner.
You're mostly right, however the fact apps make it so that women have an expanded selection of potential suitors means it makes it much easier to dismiss someone based on their height as opposed to IRL.
Contrast that to being in an actual physical social setting, where due to interaction and close proximity to be a better judge of someone's personality, fashion, hygiene, etc., height can be more easily overlooked. That, and there is a significantly smaller percentage of men who will meet a desired height requirement to choose from that every other woman may be competing for.
Speaking as a short guy myself, my success is inverted when I'm online vs. when I'm in person, so the aversion towards men of low stature is something I always viewed as a perverse extreme standard born from the digital dating age. It is not something that is reflective of women's attitudes concerning men in general, nor is it applicable to all social dating parameters.
This a very positive outlook and one that I agree with and encourage everyone to adopt. Easier said than done with how brazen people can be haha.
I'm not a part the current dating scene as I haven't dated since 2003 when I met my wife through a co-worker.
I remember even back then, the online dating scene sucked. I was setting up profiles on websites like match.com, matchcontact.com and Lavalife. I managed to get a few dates here and there but it was all about looks and the online profile. I can't imagine how worse it is now with the apps. I feel bad for the folks having to go through that especially in the past few years when socialization has been frowned upon.
It's been like this since the beginning of time though but just seems to get worse. Remember those "90lb weakling ads" that were in comic books back in the 70s and 80s?
I remember even back then, the online dating scene sucked. I was setting up profiles on websites like match.com, matchcontact.com and Lavalife. I managed to get a few dates here and there but it was all about looks and the online profile. I can't imagine how worse it is now with the apps. I feel bad for the folks having to go through that especially in the past few years when socialization has been frowned upon.
It's been like this since the beginning of time though but just seems to get worse. Remember those "90lb weakling ads" that were in comic books back in the 70s and 80s?
Left a long term relationship a few weeks ago and joined Tinder (which is why this thread intrigued me). Specifically didn't list my height (6'3) on advice from a female friend I had look over my profile who said it was cringey. Had 3 dates the following week.
Naturally during the course of each one what attracted us to each others profile came up. Common theme? I seemed confident. Again this was thanks to advice from a friend who told me to use photos of me smiling, on holiday, doing an activity of some kind besides drinking ect. All basic stuff but I wanted a female perspective since that's who I'm ultimately trying to attract.
Height only came up once and it was a date saying the fact I didn't have it listed despite being taller than average was unusual. That's it.
Dating is actually super easy if you don't take it and yourself so seriously.
This post is wild. Tell me they put this there but it's "just a joke" or some shit. This isn't even the "just a preference" line that racists use.
DING DING DING! We have a winner! This is the best advice in the thread.
My sister is one of them lol. She straight up said they had to be a certain height to date. 😂
There's a number discrepancy in the genders in dating apps because a lot of women avoid those apps due to creeps. It is what it is 🤷♀️
Boggles my mind that people keep whining about shallow women who filter by height. Who cares about those people? Why are so many dudes so focused on them, since they clearly wouldn't want to date such a person anyway? Instead they whine and whine and turn off women who aren't like that with their self-pity. lol
Not sure I agree about the women who put that shit in their bios (I think most are just really shallow) but I agree with everything else. You're gonna get dogpiled by a bunch of defensive dudes though lol
EXACTLY
Boggles my mind that people keep whining about shallow women who filter by height. Who cares about those people? Why are so many dudes so focused on them, since they clearly wouldn't want to date such a person anyway? Instead they whine and whine and turn off women who aren't like that with their self-pity. lol
This is a broader point than just the specific focus of this thread but I have a major objection with this viewpoint.
Yes, it is absolutely true that the data and analysis is largely private so a degree of faith in the accuracy of their analysts is required, but I disagree with your assertion that it means "big assumptions being made without evidence". Factoring analysis from dating app providers is absolutely reasonable evidence to consider and is definitely more than just an assumption even if it isn't something you personally consider useful.
In a modern context, we constantly look to authoritative sources (beyond just academics) for analysis where the raw data is not publicly available. There are countless examples of domains and data we consume and rely upon where the underlying data source isn't publicly available and is privately owned, whether it's box office sales, viewership numbers for shows/streaming services, subscriber counts, sales data (for games, movies, electronics, etc.), search result volume, embedded video analytics, marketing data (e.g. average industry open rates/click rates/spam rates/etc), and there are large businesses build around insight and analytics where the underlying data isn't publicly auditable.
We consume, use, and weigh data from private sources on an hourly basis, particularly on this forum given its entertainment focus, and I don't think it's remotely sensible to dismiss these and claim they're not 'evidence' because it's 'hardly scientific and not peered reviewed'. Yes, you should view some of these sources with a healthy degree of skepticism and consideration, but for me outright dismissal borders closer to conspiratorial than sensible, and I think it's not remotely accurate to say people are making 'big assumptions' by looking at data provided by these sources, it's totally reasonable to consider a data owner's insight even if you can't audit that.
Indeed. If tomorrow there was a magic pill that could instantly make you taller, it wouldn't make that person any less shallow, and today is height, tomorrow it might be your bank account (getting rich feels almost as a pipedream as becoming taller), dick size etc. and the same goes for men who look for beauty above anything else.
A 6'3 dude telling others to "not take yourself too seriously" is super tone deaf and dismissive. There is flat out vitriol thrown towards short dudes on these apps
Although I generally agree with you, height can often be deduced from pictures. I'm 6'3 too and had a female friend tell me to remove my height from my profile since she could tell from the pics.
It might not come up in conversation because the box is already checked for her, not because it doesn't matter.
Effort + Confidence (or the appearance of confidence) = Success
Always has, it is just 10x more intense now because the dating pool is no longer your area it is your city, or state, or country and people don't need to go out to "meet" desired partners.
Took me a lot of effort and trial and error, getting fitter, taking better pictures, trying new pictures, trying new descriptions, getting new jobs.
5 years strong now.
Always has, it is just 10x more intense now because the dating pool is no longer your area it is your city, or state, or country and people don't need to go out to "meet" desired partners.
Took me a lot of effort and trial and error, getting fitter, taking better pictures, trying new pictures, trying new descriptions, getting new jobs.
5 years strong now.
While I agree with you and it's a great way to look at it, it still adds to the growing pile of non matches which I think is what frustrates a lot of people. It just means more swiping and swiping and swiping.
Sorry to jump in, but I think this is something worth discussing too. It's the why, which can't be explained by personal preferences alone. Wanting a trophy describes wanting a very different relationship than what you'd have with a partner. Generally we could say partner is someone who is your equal, trophy is not.
But when we think about our social norms and expectations of a cis-het relationship, it's still very unequal. And it's clear in how we react to stay at home dads versus stay at home moms, or if it's acceptable that the woman in the relationship is broke versus if it's the man. Or we don't blink an eye if a family moves far away following the man's career, but if it's the woman's career it's something we notice as unusual. The social expectation is that the man is dominant in the relationship and this is upheld with social pressure. You're either a man or a joke, whipped and whatnot.
Now there are two trends in society that are quite important to this topic: increasing equality and changes in social norms. Unfortunately these changes happen at different rate. While changes in equality between men and women has been comparatively fast, the changes in culture lag behind.
Social media, apps, etc have made this worse and have caused big hits to men's self-esteem and morale. Money and appearance have always been important but its worse now. Biggest issue with apps being the number disparity. The top dudes get all the attention because there is way more men than women. The men at the top get all the attention and are less likely to feel committed to a single option as a result, which in turns causes the women to also feel unfulfilled by the apps. If the numbers were an even split, then more natural scenarios would occur. An app that forced even numbers and/or limited number of matches would help.
How much shorter would I need to be for that advice to be worth listening to? Because it was given to me by a guy literally a foot shorter than me who has bright pink hair and a Viking beard. Or does him having a beard mean he's also at an advantage over men who can't grow one? I mean I can't grow a beard and have a weak jaw, that's a thing people say women want right? Does that detract any "points" from my attractiveness?
Exactly how much worse off than "average" do I have to be for you to want to listen to me or for this to not be dismissive? Because "don't take it too seriously" isn't exactly uncommon advice for dating. Pretty much every study ever conducted on the subject has women list the same few things as the quality they find most attractive. Confidence, sense of humour, fun loving ect.
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I think that beside the very skewed men/ women ratio one (of the many) problems of dating apps is that they have also compounded an age old problem which was already tricky in person.
Plain/ average looking people are basing their criterias on looks first, and hobies second (nevermind that personality does not translate in the virtual dating space), and when they don't get hits back from attractive people, they come to the conclusion that "there's nobody for me".
Note: I am myself agressively average in looks, and overweight. But I met my wife 23 years ago while gaming online, where looks don't matter and personality eventually comes through.
Plain/ average looking people are basing their criterias on looks first, and hobies second (nevermind that personality does not translate in the virtual dating space), and when they don't get hits back from attractive people, they come to the conclusion that "there's nobody for me".
Note: I am myself agressively average in looks, and overweight. But I met my wife 23 years ago while gaming online, where looks don't matter and personality eventually comes through.
I'm honestly taken aback by some of the rhetoric ITT. those lonely 60% aren't all incel creeps who obsess about their height and "working on their personality" will not fix the imbalance introduced by The Apps (tm). Some real "The Algorithm isn't all that bad" says person selected by the algorithm-vibe.
There is a systemic problem here and yet people seem to be laser-focused on discussing individual symptoms and making fun of real peoples suffering, fellow posters, too.
There is a systemic problem here and yet people seem to be laser-focused on discussing individual symptoms and making fun of real peoples suffering, fellow posters, too.
This is a rather massive difference.
This feels like either a substantial number of women are dating older people, or a lot of this is due to women and men not sharing the same definition of being single or not. (A few other possibilities like polygamy being way bigger than I thought, or huge sampling error.)
But there are a number of problematic trends
Many young men are looking up to monsters like Tate, and getting horrible views on what dating looks like (incel culture).
Serious question, if I'm 5'11, should I put 6 feet on a dating profile? Can most people really tell the difference at a glance?
I don't think that's how this works :D
Of say 1000 men and women they asked, x% were single. Not x% of literally all men and women existing.
Agreed, there's some real big "rise n' grind" energy pouring out of some of the posts in here. "I guess some people don't want to do the work, just got to get out there and hustle like I did."
I'm glad that worked for some people but it's not a blanket solution or even a serious solution at all to the problem being discussed, at least not for many.
In my experience: Absolutely you should. Yes, it will make a huge difference. No, nobody will be able to tell. Most of the women requiring 6ft don't know what 6ft looks like. It's just a nice, round American number that they equate to "not short".
It's rough when my profile puts all my hobbies front and center like finding insects interesting and doing gymnastics and being adventurous, and I get nothing at all. It's like, am I just inadequate as a person? Idk how else I'm supposed to be. Like my pictures/videos are me carrying dogs and camping and doing a planche, playing guitar and singing. I have no idea what women want to see lol, I'm just like you're gonna see me this is stuff I like
Using apps is alwayssssss demotivating. Even myself just using it, I feel bad that I'm skipping people because it's like I really have no idea what this person is like. It is mostly a negative experience. Dehumanizing really. It's the hope that kills ya
Using apps is alwayssssss demotivating. Even myself just using it, I feel bad that I'm skipping people because it's like I really have no idea what this person is like. It is mostly a negative experience. Dehumanizing really. It's the hope that kills ya
I doubt anyone can tell the difference, but you could just move to Europe, that's 180cm here. That's our mythical dating height.
Never seen anyone looking for someone that is 182,88 cm, lol.
As I said unless there's huge sampling error.
But you certainly should be able to extrapolate to larger populations. That's why sampling and error analysis exist.
This is true but I also think culturally it would be better if people were not judgmental regarding immutable characteristics, like if someone said "I would never date an Asian person" I would think they have some work to do on themselves because there's no good reason behind it, and it's something that doesn't have to be set in stone, preferences can change over time and through interactions with broader groups of people and stuff. So while in the short term people should definitely say no to dating people who would see them as less-than, in the long term I do think there should be some cultural shifts. One way this can be done is through media, representation of what some would consider non-traditional relationships in media, signaling to people that those things are normal.
Of course it can be frustrating, but that's precisely why the perspective from where you look at things makes the whole difference. If you get into the apps thinking that the point is swim in matches and stuff, you're most likely gonna be disapointed. If you look at it thinking that the point is filtering out people you don't wanna match with so you actually match with people you do, you'll see that it may take longer, but it will end up in a better result.
Gotta remember that your worth is not defined by the results of the algorithm in the dating apps. I know it's hard as shit, but that's why improving your self love and self worth is called "the work".
Because money and appearance are important factors to some people?
And i don't mean that as a dig either. It just is what it is. We just had a thread where a woman bailed on a date because the dude bitched about cheese upcharge on his burger.
And i don't mean that as a dig either. It just is what it is. We just had a thread where a woman bailed on a date because the dude bitched about cheese upcharge on his burger.
Because the world is a diffrent place with higher standarts for outside appearnce unfortunatley.
I used to be in the "It's all about the personality" camp but no, it is really, really not.
I put way more effort in my appearnce and clothing than I would probably like, does it make me feel better and more confident? sure, I guess, but I still don't like it.
Also, height is a big deal, I'm 6ft barefeet and was actually told I'm too short once.
I used to be in the "It's all about the personality" camp but no, it is really, really not.
I put way more effort in my appearnce and clothing than I would probably like, does it make me feel better and more confident? sure, I guess, but I still don't like it.
Also, height is a big deal, I'm 6ft barefeet and was actually told I'm too short once.
I think you're really minimizing or flat out not aware at the amount of socially acceptable vitriol hurled at these people. Your ability to get matches is severely handicapped as a shorter man - the apps functionality declines notably.
Your attitude unfortunately does nothing to get your foot in the door here. It's not that your advice is bad or wrong, but it's absolutely not the right tbing to say in this situation
Agreed there needs to be a change, but meanwhile that happens, remember that you can't control how other people view the world. You can only control how you react and act in it. You need to start to filter them out.
Treat women like shit and get offended if women don't want to be treated like shit.
It's a total mystery why it isn't working, must be women's fault.
Online dating is severely weighted against men, so some rise to the challenge to present a little better than "not at all."
Little effort goes a long way.
Little effort goes a long way.
Lol I don't want to asume things... but I can't not asume things lmao
I know cold approach is scary as fuck and could easily lead to disaster but don't be so hesitant to say at least something.
Even if they don't, do you want to potentially match with someone who wouldn't date you at 5'11?
OP
OP
It's funny. Women are a not monolith--obviously!
But there is a camp of "leave women alone everywhere". I've even seen post here saying that. Like, do these people even know how most relationships started before apps?
Obviously, be natural. Look for social cues. Is there a ping pong style of interaction, going and back forth? Is there interest?
However, there are many very vocal and disappointed about men not pursuing women anymore too!
Again, this is a very nuanced conversation in the dating space.
View: https://www.tiktok.com/@jenniferdowning7/video/7138675078304222507