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2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT2 | Warren's college tuition plan includes cancelling college debt
- Thread starter pigeon
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Because it's not a natural or essential right. They don't need the entire gamut of citizens rights to recover. By your logic imprisonment at all is arbitrary and counterproductive? And yet they've stolen the natural and essential rights of others.
Eh, I'm of two minds about it. Do you not agree with crime and punishment? Not the implementation here in the U.S. of course, but the concept?
I don't disagree with these posts.
How would you implement that grace period? Detainment? Exile? How would you go about rehabilitation? Probation? A live-in guardian as the accused interacts with society? I'm genuinely curious. I've seen Scandanavian set-ups where "prisoners" live in a fairly comfortable housing complex that didn't seem too bad.
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I do not view them as subhuman. But I do view people who repeatedly make the choice to harm other people as having made it very clear who they are. And when that's clear, it's up to society to make it so they can't hurt other people anymore. The reason you have problems with sex offender colonies under bridges? Largely exist because we released them back out into society.
It's more about options for taking care of the problem. I dont have a moral issue with the death penalty, but it comes with a "1 innocent life isn't worth 999 guilty ones" problem, and so going for the safer option is preferable.
"Options for taking care of the problem".
These are people, Kirblar. People who did an awful thing, or awful things, but people.
To murder them in retaliation for doing that awful thing, is wrong.
These are people, Kirblar. People who did an awful thing, or awful things, but people.
To murder them in retaliation for doing that awful thing, is wrong.
You have more faith in people than I do. They literally sat at home because of "but her emails" nonsense in 2016. And that wasn't nearly as consensus unpopular as this, much more unfavorable along partisan lines.
But I guess we'll see if he ends up being the nom.
And it is people who they have hurt and threaten to hurt again. They are not more important than the people they have victimized and threaten to victimize again.
He has no power to do this if he wins, it is a state issue. It's Governors and state legislatures who decide this. See Virginia for a good example of this.
I do think the reason he's doing this is he's trying to make inroads into minority communities due to him learning lessons from 2016.
As for punitive justice, I'll admit, I do believe in it in limited circumstances, such as when the powerful commit crimes. I've always believed the rich and powerful should be punished more harshly than an average citizen when they intentionally commit a crime. When you're part of the elite, you have additional responsibilities to society.
I do think the reason he's doing this is he's trying to make inroads into minority communities due to him learning lessons from 2016.
As for punitive justice, I'll admit, I do believe in it in limited circumstances, such as when the powerful commit crimes. I've always believed the rich and powerful should be punished more harshly than an average citizen when they intentionally commit a crime. When you're part of the elite, you have additional responsibilities to society.
A pragmatist through and through, you can't deny the consistency is impressive even if subtly horrifying
If you're an omnipotent god-king, yes. We shouldn't be doing that, because we're not omnipotent god-kings and can't tell the difference between a serial killer and the guy falsely set up as one by corrupt police. And so the risk isn't worth it when we have the ability to imprison them for the rest of their lives.
If I were an omnipotent god-king I'd go back in time to eradicate evil from the world and make all life inherently benevolent and altruistic.
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Class of 2020 y'all!
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Here's a source on that.
Buttigieg says that he expects he'll probably do some policy rollout of his own starting in May, as part of a reading on the race that "you've got to have a feat per month."
Only an expectation rather than a solid promise, but the reasoning makes sense so I think he's likely to follow through. His media blowout will surely start to lose some steam in May and starting a policy rollout will keep momentum going until the debates start.
Some people might deserve to die, but who amongst us has the moral purity to make that call? I mean other than me of course, I'm clearly perfect, but the rest of you? Yeesh.
Arabs can't dance, justifying warcrimes in Korea, his general view on the working class and now this nonsense. How utterly despicable.
That the right for felons to vote is even up for debate is pretty wild. Those percentages of support/oppose on the last page are staggering, how does such an immoral view in the general electorate come about?
Our country views justice very differently than other countries. The majority still support the death penalty for convicted murderers.
You missed that time when the rich using economic violence on the poor to displace them is fine if it's a net gain to society
Ok, I get that Kirblar has a history of expressing some pretty terrible views, but I'd strongly advise against the underhanded sniping/subtweeting; the mods aren't gonna have it.
Man look at how many hacks are up there. What are some of these people doing tbh.
I don't really agree with this. I am anti-death penalty because there is no fool-proof way of preventing innocent deaths, but intentionally depriving someone else of their life is worthy, morally, of being met with the same fate, unless you are mentally ill and were unable to discern the difference between right and wrong at the time.
You stared into the abyss too long
References to Kirblar's past bans.
We should treat them better than how they treat their victims. We don't do the Hammurabi thing and go tit for tat; that is just vengeance masquerading as justice.
Also, felon disenfranchisement is entirely racist.
PREACH!
The fearmongering is ridiculous. There are criminals who will never get caught and can vote, and our country has managed to not legalize homicide even with these people out in the wild. It would be no different if prisoners were allowed to vote, and considering the demographics, it would likely make our country more progressive.
Prisoners should be able to vote. I understand why some people want to treat prisoners like they are not human but that's a mistake in my opinion.
Death penalty is a difficult subject.
I know that ultimately, its wrong, and that in the future we should do away with it altogether. But its hard for me to make that a blanket statement, because I can't emotionally distance myself from certain extreme cases where I feel like it is still deserved.
I think all felons should be attempted to be rehabilitated and reintroduced to society in a healthy way, but if that is impossible then it becomes lifelong separation from society. I guess that is the right answer. Maybe that's even ultimately a better punishment for even the worst of them. Being isolated for 50+ years in your own head might be a worse fate than some painless drug death penalty.
I guess. It takes a big person to not want "revenge" or whatever.
I know that ultimately, its wrong, and that in the future we should do away with it altogether. But its hard for me to make that a blanket statement, because I can't emotionally distance myself from certain extreme cases where I feel like it is still deserved.
I think all felons should be attempted to be rehabilitated and reintroduced to society in a healthy way, but if that is impossible then it becomes lifelong separation from society. I guess that is the right answer. Maybe that's even ultimately a better punishment for even the worst of them. Being isolated for 50+ years in your own head might be a worse fate than some painless drug death penalty.
I guess. It takes a big person to not want "revenge" or whatever.
Do you support life in prison without parole? Thats wrong, why would you support something worse than death?
Yup. Their tweet last week teasing this poll was making it seem like something more interesting was going on up top. Not everyone but Pete losing percentages. Lol.
so everyone down, pete up?
makes sense
I don't know why this poll had to have a media rollout plan but whatever
Mmm upper middle class kids get their college paid for nearly in full. Its the lower middle and working poor families that need the big student loans.
I agree that a disproportionate amount of African Americans are in prison and some of them are definitely for racist reasons.
The solution is not to allow murderers to vote as collateral damage to correct this injustice, the solution is actual criminal justice reform to make sure the people who are in prison for bogus crimes like smoking a joint while black aren't in prison to begin with.
Solve the root cause.
Well that Monmouth poll sucks. They were teasing it like something exciting was going on.
Instead it was just Buttigieg breaking out and taking a few votes from everyone. Everybody knew that was going to happen. And it was all done while Buttigieg was breaking out. He'll drop back down now since the New York Times article came out a week ago, and all the crap about him working with lobbyists/bundlers. If this country votes for that trash, this country deserves that trash. Bring on next months poll.
Instead it was just Buttigieg breaking out and taking a few votes from everyone. Everybody knew that was going to happen. And it was all done while Buttigieg was breaking out. He'll drop back down now since the New York Times article came out a week ago, and all the crap about him working with lobbyists/bundlers. If this country votes for that trash, this country deserves that trash. Bring on next months poll.
We can do both. And fixing felon disenfranchisement is a part of criminal justice reform.
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