AV Club: Turns out Colin Trevorrow's version of Star Wars: Episode IX was good, actually

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,373
I mean Poe/Rey makes some sense. In TFA you can definitely make an argument she romanticizes not just flying away herself but Rebel pilots in general. With the self made doll and wearing the pilot helm. It’s not a stretch to imagine she would get feelings for Poe in the long(er) run. Keeping in mind that she barely gets to know him in the 8 days that span TFA and TLJ.
I think it's too late in the trilogy to give any of them a very satisfying romance plot. Rose and Finn seems to have to crushes on Rey and Finn again, but not enough sexual tension between them, and the characters that had the most sexual tension, seemed to have an abusive relationship. Rey should have been written so she loses that attraction, after she literally closed the door in TLJ.
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,874
So back in 2017, when Trevorrow was let go, trusted Star Wars leaker Jordan Maison said that Lucasfilm had never been entirely happy with a draft he and Derek Connolly wrote, but that they thought the draft he turned in before Carrie died was "workable." This is probably that draft. Lucasfilm was less happy with drafts after this. So it's possible that if Carrie Fisher hadn't died, we would have gotten some form of this.

Which seems strange to me because I think you could write around Leia fairly easy with this script and still hit the same beats.
 

PhaZe 5

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,340



Even the beginning is already better.

Again, that's why the, "Nowhere to go in 9," thing is silly. This version actually follows through with TFA and TLJ and sounds more interesting already in the opening moments.
The B plot is the only good one, oddly enough.

The A plot of Rey and Kylo going on training journeys and ending up on fucking Mortis is nonsense lol
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,373
On Kennedy's part? Yes. Abrams and Terrio came on months before TLJ even released (and IIRC delivered the first script draft the weekend TLJ came out) so I think on Abrams' part it might have just been a little bit of ego in feeling like he didn't need to be beholden to the decisions made in TLJ since he was the one who launched this trilogy.

But I've got a sneaking suspicion that the first draft delivered was actually less pandering to Reddit (for lack of a better term) than what we've got. The final movie is so sloppy and slapdash it feels like something happened in the past year and they bent over backwards in reshoots and editing to pander to what they perceived the vocal anti-TLJ crowd.

I'm hoping once the dust settled we get some good reporting from the trades on what happened behind the scenes. Because the end result feels like the production even after Abrams came onboard was anything but smooth.
Indeed I believe if they let the directors tell an organic finale instead of pandering...the last jedi's reception would be different, because you could see where the story was going. You can have a Calligula style villain, that isn't cool and imposing like vader but a more chaotic and still effective antagonist, and you can show how Rey being from a new generation of jedi, being nobody, which means they can inspire their own new jedi code and overcome an existential crisis. You can see Luke inspires the rebellion to rise, and it feel like he had to be killed. It's better for the long term, say "this is why that story made these swerves and here's the pay off" than out-of-place and clumsy pandering, which just damages the brand and knock the new trilogy down.
 

sphagnum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,213
I don't understand why Trevorrow had such trouble reworking the script after Carrie's death. Leia doesn't do a whole bunch, and it's not like Poe does a whole lot either. Just have Leia already be dead and put Poe as the new Resistance leader trying to rally allies. That also gets rid of the pointless Rey/Poe love interest fakeout.

Other than that, cut out Tor Valluk and just have Kylo learning about Mortis from the Sheev holocron, and it flows well enough.
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,373
Who exactly wasn't a nobody outside of Luke? It makes no sense to keep repeating that over and over again like it's an exception in Jedi history. The exception is Luke because Anakin had kids in secret.

Even in the EU Satele Shan's son wasn't force sensitive, it's always been random.
I didn't say they weren't. I mean the original jedis were too naive and short-sighted, they would only train jedis at a young age and told them they couldn't love, they were fucked up and like a cult, and a new jedi order starting without the baggage of legacy, who to live up to, or the old rules and customs, could be an empowering development for Rey who was told she had no place in this story, so she makes a new story for her self and start a new story for the jedi.
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,874
Who exactly wasn't a nobody outside of Luke? It makes no sense to keep repeating that over and over again like it's an exception in Jedi history. The exception is Luke because Anakin had kids in secret.

Even in the EU Satele Shan's son wasn't force sensitive, it's always been random.
That's a flaw with TFA. Rey's parentage should never have been posed as a question needing to be answered for precisely the reasons that you laid out.

Abrams just can't help himself from being focused more on the meta than the actual stories. The Vader-Luke twist is one of the biggest twists in cinema history. So Abrams therefore associates the entire Saga as being about family and bloodlines. Meanwhile Lucas makes pains in the prequels to show that bloodlines really don't matter in the grand scheme of things outside of the specific Luke/Anakin relationship. There was no need to make new force sensitive characters in the ST have direct familial relationships to justify their abilities.

It's the same reason that Abrams has the Tatooine scene at the end of TROS- he is speaking directly to the audience and their experience of the twin suns moment even though, story-wise, the beat makes zero sense.
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,373
That's a flaw with TFA. Rey's parentage should never have been posed as a question needing to be answered for precisely the reasons that you laid out.

Abrams just can't help himself from being focused more on the meta than the actual stories. The Vader-Luke twist is one of the biggest twists in cinema history. So Abrams therefore associates the entire Saga as being about family and bloodlines. Meanwhile Lucas makes pains in the prequels to show that bloodlines really don't matter in the grand scheme of things outside of the specific Luke/Anakin relationship. There was no need to make new force sensitive characters in the ST have direct familial relationships to justify their abilities.

It's the same reason that Abrams has the Tatooine scene at the end of TROS- he is speaking directly to the audience and their experience of the twin suns moment even though, story-wise, the beat makes zero sense.
I think it worked for me, I think we often see the story through Rey's eyes, it's why Kylo is so romanticised as a sad hunk in TLJ, and there's a feeling at the back of her head telling her that her parents are coming back and she's going to be validated. She goes into the dark cave looking for the answers, the audience also wants. If there was a mystery box being placed for Rey, that's really was his false hope at the back of her head. I think Rey was chosen by the force, The Force Ahem Awakened, but she hoped for an answer that wasn't there and the audience also felt she needed a family to validate herself as the new protagonist.
 

antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,571
I really don't buy Mortis in any Script that Filoni or George himself isn't working on. That is concept stuff that I doubt anyone outside of those 2 could even approach accurately.
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,874
I think it worked for me, I think we often see the story through Rey's eyes, it's why Kylo is so romanticised as a sad hunk in TLJ, and there's a feeling at the back of her head telling her her parents are coming back and she's going to be validated. She goes into the dark cave looking for the answers, the audience also wants. If there was a mystery box being placed for Rey, that's really was his false hope at the back of her head. I think Rey was chosen by the force, The Force Ahem Awakened, but she hoped for an aswer that wasn't there and the audience also felt she needed a family to validate herself as the new protagonist.
It felt like the least compelling aspect of TFA at release but I think Johnson made it fare more compelling in TLJ because of all that you laid out.

Rolling back into "Rey's dad was a really evil force user" in TROS is such a waste. I think the right way is to just take TLJ's answer and move on. And that's exactly what Trevorrow seemed inclined to do. I do hate the "Kylo killed her parents" twist though. That was totally unnecessary.

I really don't buy Mortis in any Script that Filoni or George himself isn't working on. That is concept stuff that I doubt anyone outside of those 2 could even approach accurately.
To be honest I kind of struggle with it even under Filoni/Lucas. I wish I liked that arc more than I do. Every time I watch it I have this feeling that it should be more important/momentous than it is and I'm just missing something.
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,864
The Rey grey jedi stuff would have pissed some nerds off, Pablo would be seething. There's some precedent with the Bendu but Trev went full bore into grey jedi territory.

Tor Valum guy is really weird.

Again it changes that Rey's parents actually loved her, missing the point of TLJ's scene. Kylo killing them is some truly dumb stuff.

Ben does get a very small mini "redemption" but Luke completely giving up on him would bother some people. It doesn't end on Reylo at least.

Finn felt absent.


Overall it doesn't seem as cowardly as TROS and tries to follow TLJ more but it still could have been just as terrible, even moreso if the execution was even worse.


I don't see why Trev couldn't have reworked this. Though maybe Book of Henry and his alleged attitude sunk him more than script issues.
 

pants

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,106
Really lacks something without

"A DYAD in the FORCE; THE POWER of TWO restores the ONE TRUE EMPEROR"
 

Nightfall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,611
Germany
Somethings sound better, some things sound worse. Ultimately it would still have gotten some rewrites and we'll never know how it would have been executed.
Saying this is so much better is imho just bitter about TROS. At least it's interesting to see what was planned at some point.
 

AuthenticM

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,391
The odds that a Colin-Teverrow-directed Star Wars movie would have turned out better than what he got are fairly slim. And that's not even counting the strand of misogyny that permeates all of his work.
 

ArcLyte

Member
Nov 1, 2017
703
Austin, TX
It still seems like a mess. In fact, there is no scenario where Ep. IX is a coherent film. That tends to happen when each part of a trilogy is written on the fly during filming, with no over-arching story to adhere to.
 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,493

Oozer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,737
OhMyGod. So their final script is kicking around too! People need to get to leaking already! But I'm really happy we're getting the details at least. Now the only sequel stuff without in-depth details available are the trilogy treatments from George and Michael Arndt and Arndt's work-in-progress draft from August 2013.
 

Sax

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
845
There's things I like better in the earlier draft but I'd gladly take either one over what we got =(
 

remz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,935
I feel like they are deliberately leaking these to keep people talking about SW, and possibly more in a positive light.
 

balohna

Member
Nov 1, 2017
796
Stealing a Star Destroyer and Ghost Luke taunting Kylo sounds cheesy and I don’t like no Ben redemption.

Other than that, it sounds interesting. An ancient evil works better for me as a reveal than a returning Palpatine. Doubling down on Rey Nobody also sounds good.

Looking forward to the inevitable Jenny Nicholson video.
 

Replicant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,138
MN
Yeah if that final draft and notes are real, I think it would have been a better movie. It sounds pretty unique for a Star Wars film too. Lots of new ideas there.
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,874
I feel like they are deliberately leaking these to keep people talking about SW, and possibly more in a positive light.
I doubt that- it makes Lucasfilm look worse, not better.

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if the leaks were coming from someone in Trevorrow's camp. Because it definitely makes him look better.
 

remz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,935
I doubt that- it makes Lucasfilm look worse, not better.

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if the leaks were coming from someone in Trevorrow's camp. Because it definitely makes him look better.
Disney probably consider the film a bust like the clearly did TLJ for some reason and just want to keep people talking about product instead of letting it fade into obscurity as being lame
 

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,457
On the one hand, you have to seriously question the judgment of Lucasfilm if they repeatedly turned down this (mediocre, but not terrible) script, but eventually approved the garbage that Abrams wrote.

On the other hand, it seems likely that Abrams agreed to do the film on the condition that he be given complete creative freedom. Lucasfilm would have been in no position to negotiate.

So ultimately, like Solo, their desperate attempts at making a "better" movie ended up making the film worse. Just as the Lord/Miller version of Solo couldn't have been any worse creatively or financially than the version we got, so too did they make perfect the enemy of the good with Episode IX and end up with an inferior product.
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,874
Disney probably consider the film a bust like the clearly did TLJ for some reason and just want to keep people talking about product instead of letting it fade into obscurity as being lame
Nah, The Mandalorian is already doing that for them. That show couldn't have come out at a better time.

On the one hand, you have to seriously question the judgment of Lucasfilm if they repeatedly turned down this (mediocre, but not terrible) script, but eventually approved the garbage that Abrams wrote.

On the other hand, it seems likely that Abrams agreed to do the film on the condition that he be given complete creative freedom. Lucasfilm would have been in no position to negotiate.

So ultimately, like Solo, their desperate attempts at making a "better" movie ended up making the film worse. Just as the Lord/Miller version of Solo couldn't have been any worse creatively or financially than the version we got, so too did they make perfect the enemy of the good with Episode IX and end up with an inferior product.
I think they probably assumed (reasonably) that Abrams would produce something far more compelling. When he didn't they were pretty much out of time. Maybe there was a point in 2018 when TROS was going before the cameras where Kennedy wished she could have turned back the clock and stayed the course with Trevorrow but that wasn't going to be an option.
 

Oozer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,737
Some thoughts:
  • This is supposedly their final draft, after Carrie Fisher died, yet Leia appears in it. And says some stuff that I'm not sure she ever said while filming a Star Wars. I don't know how they were planning to pull that off.
  • "Rey gets caught up in a drinking contest with aliens." Does the Force work like Captain America super serum when it comes to alcohol? Can she even get drunk?
  • Lando knew Poe's mom, the awesome Shara Bey. Dammit, I didn't know we were this close to getting a Shara Bey mention in a movie. Now I'm sad.
  • I don't think Jason Ward, the writer of the article, spells "Remnicore" the same way twice lol.
  • I can't get over this script doing the same "main character shockingly turns out to be part robotic" thing that Alan Dean Foster's bat crazy Episode IX treatment did. Turns out Foster was on to something!
  • It then, apparently, never comes up again.
  • The script still makes the mistake of retconning Rey's parents into wanting her.
  • I wonder if Rey shooting Force lightning and Lando showing up with a cavalcade of ships is something from the Story Group and/or Kathy Kennedy since they appear here and in the movie despite J.J. and Terrio saying they never read any Trevorrow draft.
  • I don't love this, but I like it more than what we got. At least what I can gather from this second-hand source.
  • I like the December draft more.
  • Jason doesn't think this will leak, which makes me sad. I hope he's wrong.
  • He's also withholding the date on the script to try to keep his source hidden. It makes sense, but again I'm disappointed in it.
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,874
I wonder if Rey shooting Force lightning and Lando showing up with a cavalcade of ships is something from the Story Group and/or Kathy Kennedy since they appear here and in the movie despite J.J. and Terrio saying they never read any Trevorrow draft.
Wouldn't surprise me if that was technically true but they were given access to production design artwork. Not sure how far were in pre-production when Trevorrow was booted but Abrams may have been asked to repurpose any designs that he could to save money and speed up the process. Many of the scenes in Trevorrow's script probably had some very striking artwork completed.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,425
Isn’t one of the main gripes some people have against TLJ is that it does the complete opposite of that?
IMO people's main gripes were that TLJ wasn't what they had theorized for the past 2 years. TLJ on paper regardless of what you feel about RJ's execution is at least a logical way to continue that story.

During the baton pass Abrams left RJ with story threads that needed to be addressed.

  • What happened to Luke Skywalker to make him abandon his friends for 8 years?
  • How will Luke Skywalker in his current state react to training Rey?
  • Now that the First Order knows the location of the Resistance base and how to track them what will they do?
  • How will Kylo react after killing his Father?
  • Who is Rey in this story?

TRoS took the baton back from TLJ and instead choose to either ignore or outright negate major story threads and their implications.


  • Snoke's dead and Kylo is now the supreme leader. How does the story movie forward when an apprentice kills his master? ( Doesn't matter. Palptine is back so Kylo is back to doing the bidding of another old sith on a throne while he plans to betray him with Rey. Essentially status quo.)
  • Whats Rey going to do with Luke Skywalkers broken lightsaber and cracked kyber crystal ? ( Doesn't matter. Its repaired to near perfect condition off screen. Its not like Kylo's unstable blade is due to it being built with a cracked crystal. JJ wants Lukes old lightsaber so Rey doesn't build her on saber with a venting system.)
  • How did the galaxy react to Luke's sacrifice and the resistance's call for help?( Nothing really happened. The resistance is the underdog and no attempts at failed/successful coalition building is shown.)
  • How will Rey continue her training after hearing from Luke that the Jedi are an inherently flawed and broken concept. Will she try to push forward and remake the jedi? Find a middle ground? ( Nope. Same Jedi training with the blast shield helmet and everything. Still a battle between black and white good and evil. Light beats out the dark and the Skywalkers live on.)
  • How will the audience/Rey/other people in universe react to Luke isolating himself for 8 years over his guilt of succumbing to fear and almost killing Ben Solo. ( JK. The main reason Luke left wasn't to cut himself off from the force and end the cycle. It was actually because he was looking for a knife with Lando.)
While the the Colin Treatment isn't perfect it's at least a continuation and response to the movie that came before it. Sometime you have to play with the hands that you're dealt.
 
Last edited:

Oozer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,737
I need a Jenny Nicholson video on this stuff but for now, I'll take a Patrick Willems tweet.


Wouldn't surprise me if that was technically true but they were given access to production design artwork. Not sure how far were in pre-production when Trevorrow was booted but Abrams may have been asked to repurpose any designs that he could to save money and speed up the process. Many of the scenes in Trevorrow's script probably had some very striking artwork completed.
This is one of the reasons I'm excited for the artbook. Both Rian and J.J. were working with artists while writing the scripts for VII and VIII so I have to imagine Trevorrow did too. I'm just hoping that art that was made under him gets in the book. I'm fearful that Lucasfilm might hold it out.
 

ThatPersonGuy

Member
Dec 30, 2018
167
Ehhhhhh. I think people here just like this treatment because it doesn't toss TLJ out of the window, but that's just about the only thing it doesn't completely screw up. The beginning's pretty solid I think actually, it has great ideas like spooky ghost Luke haunting Kylo. But even then there's a weird lack of... direction/momentum for the story. It carries one of TLJ's biggest flaws, the really poorly conveyed scale of the events going on, on its sleeve. But then when the actual plot starts... oh jesus christ. Whatever you might say about what ROS did for Kylo's arc, this version of the film would have completely torpedoed it. Which is I guess what some of you guys wanted anyways? Ah well. Kylo just acts like a cartoonish bad guy for the entire script before he and Rey just bumblefuck into LEGENDARY FORCE REALM and reveals like the cackling villain he is that he's the guy who did the bad things to reys parents oh noes now reys gotta beat him and then the ships attack on coruscant and this.... ends the first order galaxy wide I guess?

It just feels like two stupid films crammed into one meh film. I think there's also something to be said about how crammed nearly every single treatment for ROS we know of was, almost as if the plot in the trilogy thus far moved almost nowhere...
 

DiipuSurotu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,212
France
  • This is supposedly their final draft, after Carrie Fisher died, yet Leia appears in it. And says some stuff that I'm not sure she ever said while filming a Star Wars. I don't know how they were planning to pull that off.
Well, the fact there was no solution to this problem was probably part of why he was fired.

  • I don't think Jason Ward, the writer of the article, spells "Remnicore" the same way twice lol.
It's like the fans with Exagol/Exogal/Exogol/Exegol/etc. haha
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,373
Isn’t one of the main gripes some people have against TLJ is that it does the complete opposite of that?
I think the difference is TLJ had development to the plot threads, even though I guess half the fans didn't like those developments, whereas ROS doesn't try to develop off TLJ (except from the force bond), Rose and Hux are snubbed, the message of the hero of the story can be you, is dumped, and Kylo being supreme leader doesn't really matter because Palpatine is behind everything. One is opinion, one is really clear.
 

DemonCarnotaur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,773
I really need to read these scripts directly, but even with these poorly written summaries, they sound mostly leagues better