Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,013
Everything is a question of "does it need to be on screen" and the film is already two hours and forty minutes long. Sure, you can give a more elaborate explanation for anything but at the end of the day you have to trust that the audience can understand how a society at a super advanced technological level could plausibly remote control a car.
I should clarify: I didn't need it explained onscreen really, its more the decision to render technology that way in the first place. The thing is, that doesn't feel super-advanced to me actually, what it feels like is Watch Dogs. I'm picking on this one very small thing, but it was just such a perfect example of the way that all advanced technology in the MCU has trended, towards this idea that "Technology = imposing your will on the environment at a distance", the entire world blended into a digital/physical substrate that's manipulable like changing which object is tied to PlayerInput. Its, IMO, a very specific vision of technology that's of this moment and I can't stop seeing it increasingly everywhere
 

McNum

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,254
Denmark
Watched it yesterday, it was pretty good. Though I was distracted a bit by the image quality. Was it just on my TV or does this movie have a messed up black-level? The darkest color is a dark grey, making the entire movie look muddy and unclear. Especially the underwater parts.
 

Shemhazai

Member
Aug 13, 2020
6,660
Watched it yesterday. Films a bit of a mess with some really strong individual performances. The Riri plotline was weak and made the movie drag a lot, and the actress kind of felt like a weak link compared to the performances from the rest of the cast. The middle of the movie was easily the best part, but I wasn't really feeling the final battle (though I usually tune out of long action scenes anyway). Half of the Ross and Valerie scenes just felt contractually obligated and M'Baku deserved far more screen time and stuff to do. Also despite loving Namor's actor, the visuals of him flying around was kind of bad.

Dunno how I'd rate it overall. I didn't really like Black Panther 1, but it was a much more focused film. Whereas this is an unfocused mess, but it had more of a focus on characters I actually liked (yes, Letitia Wright is a twit but Shuri is a great character, particularly in this film). I guess I'd give it something like a 6.5/10.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,926
It's not A car, it's that car specifically. We've seen Wakandans remote control cars before. The Batman tire pump thing doesn't even make sense as a comparison. The problem is, in universe, the car thing didn't make sense. I'm able to go with it, but I'm not gonna tell someone criticizing it that they're wrong.

It's a contrivance, I can like a movie and still acknowledge that.

I don't disagree that it is a contrivance since as I said screen time is limited and you have to make such calls but I do disagree that it didn't make sense. In my opinion, anything that can be plausibly explained makes sense.

I should clarify: I didn't need it explained onscreen really, its more the decision to render technology that way in the first place. The thing is, that doesn't feel super-advanced to me actually, what it feels like is Watch Dogs. I'm picking on this one very small thing, but it was just such a perfect example of the way that all advanced technology in the MCU has trended, towards this idea that "Technology = imposing your will on the environment at a distance", the entire world blended into a digital/physical substrate that's manipulable like changing which object is tied to PlayerInput. Its, IMO, a very specific vision of technology that's of this moment and I can't stop seeing it increasingly everywhere

Gotcha, thank you for explaining.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,181
I also found the complaints about Riri being 'shoehorned in' completely overblown. Her story works perfectly fine as the inciting incident for the film's major events and it is integrated well into the rest of the film. Overall, a really good MCU movie and a fantastic introduction to Namor.
Her role as the macguffin is fine and not something people complained about, it's giving so much screen time to a character that is irrelevant to the movie that people complained about. She could have been random scientist #3" and it wouldn't have changed much. She had really cringy dialogue imo, but otherwise wasn't bad, however it's a long movie and you can trim 15 minutes just by not trying to make ironheart a big part of it.
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,112
Messy movie, tried to cover too much and the outside MCU connections felt misplaced in a film that should have been Wakanda focused. Shuri stuff also just felt hollow and even by the end, just tacked on cause they had to. Emotional film which is kind of overburdened by all the extra stuff when it felt like it needed to be leaner and more focused
 

NekoNeko

Coward
Oct 26, 2017
18,706
Watched it yesterday, it was pretty good. Though I was distracted a bit by the image quality. Was it just on my TV or does this movie have a messed up black-level? The darkest color is a dark grey, making the entire movie look muddy and unclear. Especially the underwater parts.
i have this for most disney live action shows. i thought it was my tv but then i got netflix and it looks clear as day.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,926
Her role as the macguffin is fine and not something people complained about, it's giving so much screen time to a character that is irrelevant to the movie that people complained about. She could have been random scientist #3" and it wouldn't have changed much. She had really cringy dialogue imo, but otherwise wasn't bad, however it's a long movie and you can trim 15 minutes just by not trying to make ironheart a big part of it.

I honestly didn't feel like she was a big part of the movie. She only gets a handful of scenes and personally I would prefer to trim down a couple of other scenes. For example. the meet-up with Riri at the university was fine, I would have trimmed down the dialogue between Shuri and Okoye before and the whole set piece at the garage after.
 

Derbel McDillet

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Nov 23, 2022
16,145
Messy movie, tried to cover too much and the outside MCU connections felt misplaced in a film that should have been Wakanda focused. Shuri stuff also just felt hollow and even by the end, just tacked on cause they had to. Emotional film which is kind of overburdened by all the extra stuff when it felt like it needed to be leaner and more focused
The entire movie is about her dealing with grief. How does it feel tacked on?
 

Osahi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,965
Just finished watching and yeah, I made a good choice skipping this in theaters, haha.

It's not a train wreck like Love & Thunder (the one that was the last straw in my decision to skip the MCU theatrically from now on). It's even quite good in places (everything concerning the grief part basically), but the main plot is simple and straightforward and just can't support a runtime of over 2 hours and a half. It was just... dull? Doesn't help that the action isn't all that exciting and can't escape a been there, done that feeling. Apart from the grief-part it's thematically empty (which was probably the strongest part of the original, it was about something). And something I really have been disliking about the MCU lately: it wastes way too much time on setting stuff up for other projects, messing up the pacing and losing focus. Ironheart could've been any other nameless scientist and we would've lost nothing (except for that atrocious CGI suit in the final act. Felt like it was plucked straight from a cheap CGI anime show. How do you go from a photoreal CG Iron Man Suit in 2008 to this in 2022??). Still beats me what Martin Freeman and Julia Dreyfuss where doing in this too except taking up screentime in a movie that was already way too long to begin with.

At least Cooglers direction has some visual flair and the production design is mostly great untill it becomes really bad in the final act.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,013
(except for that atrocious CGI suit in the final act. Felt like it was plucked straight from a cheap CGI anime show. How do you go from a photoreal CG Iron Man Suit in 2008 to this in 2022??).
I've mostly resigned myself to the CGI in these things being dodgy these days, but when they open with that genuinely powerful funeral scene, after spending so much time just showing us the real faces and bodies of real humans dancing in the streets to pay respect to both the in-story death of a character but also clearly to Boseman himself, culminating it with the coffin suddenly becoming bad CGI as its tractor beamed into the air had me genuinely going "Oh come the fuck on, you couldn't make this look better? Or just...let the gravity of this moment rest?"
 

Waggles

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,180
It was messy. Not the worst of this phase, but still.

I didn't love Namor. I think that was the biggest dissapointment for me. I'm not sure if it's the actor or the direction he was given, but i felt he was too softspoken for my admittedly very limited understanding of the character. Not nearly arrogant enough, either. In fact, he seemed more willing to slink and scheme around in the shadows than to outwardly boast, the latter of which is what i came to expect of the character. Whatever. Debut and all that, his character can change a bit in sequels, I guess.

I didn't care for atlantis either. Too dark, and blue people are kinda… silly? I dunno, it looked off to me.

Martin freeman was unnecessary. A quick cameo, nothing more, would have been better, imo. Shave off the runtime a bit.

And that other new character that's been running around this phase, who i think is supposed to be Baroness? Fuck me, she's still insufferable. Why is she around? What is that building too? Also - poor Martin, lol.

And lol at those iron suits. Iron heart looked like a damn transformer, and I can't believe they stuck Okyoe in a goddamn Cyrax reject. Fuck me, that was awful.
 

Foot

Member
Mar 10, 2019
11,058
I've mostly resigned myself to the CGI in these things being dodgy these days, but when they open with that genuinely powerful funeral scene, after spending so much time just showing us the real faces and bodies of real humans dancing in the streets to pay respect to both the in-story death of a character but also clearly to Boseman himself, culminating it with the coffin suddenly becoming bad CGI as its tractor beamed into the air had me genuinely going "Oh come the fuck on, you couldn't make this look better? Or just...let the gravity of this moment rest?"
Yeah, I definitely don't think that scene should have ended with a cartoony coffin being beamed into a spaceship.
 

Osahi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,965
I've mostly resigned myself to the CGI in these things being dodgy these days, but when they open with that genuinely powerful funeral scene, after spending so much time just showing us the real faces and bodies of real humans dancing in the streets to pay respect to both the in-story death of a character but also clearly to Boseman himself, culminating it with the coffin suddenly becoming bad CGI as its tractor beamed into the air had me genuinely going "Oh come the fuck on, you couldn't make this look better? Or just...let the gravity of this moment rest?"

There is a lot of solid and good CG in this one, but some of it is so shoddy again. Ironheart is basically as bad as the two CGI panthers fighting in the first one.

With all the reports coming out of how VFX people are being crunched, it's clear they really need to work on how their pipeline is build. It sometimes feels like they have such a big 'fix it in post' mentality they fail to plan their effects shots on set.
 

Deleted member 3038

Oct 25, 2017
3,569
Just finished watching and yeah, I made a good choice skipping this in theaters, haha.

It's not a train wreck like Love & Thunder (the one that was the last straw in my decision to skip the MCU theatrically from now on). It's even quite good in places (everything concerning the grief part basically), but the main plot is simple and straightforward and just can't support a runtime of over 2 hours and a half. It was just... dull? Doesn't help that the action isn't all that exciting and can't escape a been there, done that feeling. Apart from the grief-part it's thematically empty (which was probably the strongest part of the original, it was about something). And something I really have been disliking about the MCU lately: it wastes way too much time on setting stuff up for other projects, messing up the pacing and losing focus. Ironheart could've been any other nameless scientist and we would've lost nothing (except for that atrocious CGI suit in the final act. Felt like it was plucked straight from a cheap CGI anime show. How do you go from a photoreal CG Iron Man Suit in 2008 to this in 2022??). Still beats me what Martin Freeman and Julia Dreyfuss where doing in this too except taking up screentime in a movie that was already way too long to begin with.

At least Cooglers direction has some visual flair and the production design is mostly great untill it becomes really bad in the final act.

Yeah Coming from Black Panther 1 this is such a let down in so many ways, besides the chase scene in the city which just like BP1 was carried by Okoye I don't really like much of the film. Namor didn't feel like nearly as much of a threat as I expected from the one trailer I saw pre-release and while I understand the whole point of the film is "Revenge consumes you and you shouldn't go for it" it just falls flat.

Like BP1 the Dora Milaje were the best part of the movie and I want them to explore them more, where's my D+ Wakanda Show?
 

Vaern

Fallen Guardian
Member
Jan 9, 2023
979
Namor was great, really liked the redesign going into Mayan culture. I still think they should had just recast T'challa, although i liked how Coogler escaped from that corner with the post-credit scene.
 

Osahi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,965
Yeah Coming from Black Panther 1 this is such a let down in so many ways, besides the chase scene in the city which just like BP1 was carried by Okoye I don't really like much of the film. Namor didn't feel like nearly as much of a threat as I expected from the one trailer I saw pre-release and while I understand the whole point of the film is "Revenge consumes you and you shouldn't go for it" it just falls flat.

Like BP1 the Dora Milaje were the best part of the movie and I want them to explore them more, where's my D+ Wakanda Show?
It's kind of ironic the best action scene in this super hero movie has very little super hero stuff in it, and once they go all out on the super hero stuff it starts to fall flat.
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,708
Seattle
MZYjCzkD0kpWIba0mgmFn8lAiov1SXu5_azjnQ10YO8.jpg

I understood this reference heh.
 

AliceAmber

Drive-in Mutant
Administrator
May 2, 2018
6,961
I'm really excited to see Namor again, hoping to watch the movie this weekend. His might be my favorite portrayal in the MCU yet
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,926
I'm really excited to see Namor again, hoping to watch the movie this weekend. His might be my favorite portrayal in the MCU yet

It was a stroke of brilliance because Marvel Studios reimagined Namor and his people in a very interesting and visually striking way without actually changing anything important about the character or inviting comparisons with Aquaman.
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
15,314
Canada
It's nit-picky, but l'd been drinking and still clearly noticed at least three times where someone went for a slow-motion jump and then, just before landing, accelerated and inexplicably shifted in space to hit their final mark.

Disney seriously needs to give their effects teams more time and money.
 

Tace

Avenger
Nov 1, 2017
35,846
The Rapscallion
I saw this in theaters, but I'd catch it again just for Namor. Say what you want about the rest but they nailed Namor and the decision to ground him and his people in real culture was so smart. Can't wait to see more of him
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,485
Just saw it for the first time. Pretty impressed. Acting, cinematography and set design were all stellar. But the pacing was kinda off at places and the movie was just too long.

I sat down and tried to figure out if you would actually lose any meaning at all in the plot if you cut out all the Martin Freeman scenes. And besides pointing them in the right direction in the very beginning I seriously don't think so. The whole plot line felt like one huge waste of time that was just in there because a producer said: "We need some white people in this!"
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,176
I watched about 40 minutes earlier during my lunch break, didn't have time for more but I will try to finish tonight or tomorrow. It's a good intro and highly respectful towards Chadwick, and I must say that Angela Bassett and Letitia Wright are absolutely bringing their A-game to this material. It's a really interesting exploration of grief.

I really liked the bit where the seafolk took over the ship. Really weird and creepy; just a shame it was so dark I could barely see what was happening!

i have this for most disney live action shows. i thought it was my tv but then i got netflix and it looks clear as day.

Yep, same. Something about the colour balancing on D+ is way too dark because I struggle to see a lot of their programmes but I have no problems with Netflix, PS5 or regular channels on the same TV.
 

base_two

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,823
It's kind of ironic the best action scene in this super hero movie has very little super hero stuff in it, and once they go all out on the super hero stuff it starts to fall flat.

I think Coogler pulls off action scenes without CG involved much better, but since this movie is apart of the MCU machine, he can't get away with it being too grounded it seems. Then again, the Russo Bros pretty much pulled off the choreography of T'Challa I'd imagine in live action which is more in line with some of the older comic books runs of BP. Coogler's interpretation seems to be heavy on inspiration from the Coates comic book run.
 

pavaloo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,105
remember liking this in theatres but feeling like it was okay, mostly enjoyed namor

watched it again last night and unfortunately just wasn't into it at all. may have actively disliked it tbh. curious where things go forward but can't say im excited, in fact the more I think about the film the more I dislike it. riri shows up and has an ironman suit, how'd that happen? "uh my dad was a mechanic" like bruh that aint enough

I remember feeling iffy about some of the cg sequences in theatres, but its a lot more glaring watching at home. I don't know after seeing some heavy hitters this year, I hope marvel re-examines their pipeline for action cinematography and their cgi framing and rendering in general. the spy kids comparison is brought up a lot and it's hyperbolic, but seeing halos around every actor inserted into a backdrop really make that connection resonate. it's actually to the point where when people dismiss the spy kids criticism it feels like they're just not looking, this has been an issue with a lot of phase 4 slate. like that gif from black widow. just takes away from sooo many scenes, like namor talking to Angela basset, you can see haloing around the edges of her wig, just takes me right out. then the final battle with riri and the power suits, just really hard to feel grounded, and its not conceptually just visually and narratively.

michael b jordan is a scene stealer and his moment in the movie is one of my favourites, but I feel like it also just emphasizes how disinterested I am in letitia's performance
 
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Hetz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
621
I really enjoyed Namor and the Ironheart stuff in the movie....but the rest was just kinda there. I don't know if I would say it's boring, but it's just ok. I really enjoyed the first Black Panther movie, so this was a disappointment.
 

Derbel McDillet

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Nov 23, 2022
16,145
Just saw it for the first time. Pretty impressed. Acting, cinematography and set design were all stellar. But the pacing was kinda off at places and the movie was just too long.

I sat down and tried to figure out if you would actually lose any meaning at all in the plot if you cut out all the Martin Freeman scenes. And besides pointing them in the right direction in the very beginning I seriously don't think so. The whole plot line felt like one huge waste of time that was just in there because a producer said: "We need some white people in this!"
I'd cut about half of Freeman's scenes.

I feel like the Wakandans getting blamed for Namors actions works on paper, that plotline from his perspective helps, but it was Val that just hurt those scenes. I get they don't want two people playing it straight, but her performance was too hammy for the tone the movie had set.

I understand Era doesn't like Letitia, but I am baffled by the critiques of her performance, I thought she crushed it.
 

rubbish_opinions

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 8, 2021
474
what an overwhelmingly mediocre movie. Could have done with a better protagonist, a more focused plot and maybe 30 minutes less. I really disliked the opening funeral, turning a real person's death in an onscreen ceremony with hamfisted symbolism and flying saucers looked gross and in bad taste. I liked the adaptation of Namor turned into a mayan god and I felt weirdly under-represented because all the badass good characters were female - that made me pause and reflect.
Anyway, in my mind now all Marvel movies form some kind of grey slop. We're really distant from memorable and high-enery. The one saving grace was Angela Basset.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,485
I'd cut about half of Freeman's scenes.

I feel like the Wakandans getting blamed for Namors actions works on paper, that plotline from his perspective helps, but it was Val that just hurt those scenes. I get they don't want two people playing it straight, but her performance was too hammy for the tone the movie had set.

I understand Era doesn't like Letitia, but I am baffled by the critiques of her performance, I thought she crushed it.

The movie just doesn't do anything with that plot line. There is no attack or even action of any kind from the countries against Wakanda. It litterally does nothing for the plot except stretch out the running time.

Cut out all of it and exchange it with a scene of Ramonda going back to the UN, but this time on her back foot since she is being blamed for the attacks and only has cryptic non-answers in return. Would show how Wakanda is alone and will get pressure if the global community goes against them. Setting up the final speech from Namor.

And as much as I love JLD she was not really hitting it here. Felt like she belonged in a different franchise. And I just shaked my head when her and Freeman where suddenly ex husband and wife...
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,013
The movie just doesn't do anything with that plot line. There is no attack or even action of any kind from the countries against Wakanda. It litterally does nothing for the plot except stretch out the running time.

Cut out all of it and exchange it with a scene of Ramonda going back to the UN, but this time on her back foot since she is being blamed for the attacks and only has cryptic non-answers in return. Would show how Wakanda is alone and will get pressure if the global community goes against them. Setting up the final speech from Namor.

And as much as I love JLD she was not really hitting it here. Felt like she belonged in a different franchise. And I just shaked my head when her and Freeman where suddenly ex husband and wife...
I actually really like the early scenes at the UN because there is something satisfying about just quickly reestablishing that the Wakandans are so far ahead in terms of technology and military that they really can just take a "fuck you" attitude to the rest of the global superpowers and they're untouchable and then the Talokans show up and do the exact same thing to them and we get to see how terrifying it is to be on the receiving end of that. But past that point all the stuff with Ross feels genuinely pointless and could be frankly cut entirely
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,629
So is it true there are rights issues similar to Hulk with the character of Namor? Amazing character and actor and I would love to see more of that world. I was wondering during the slow parts of the movie (a lot lol) how the Talokan society dealt with the snap.

Would love a TV series showing Talokan through the centuries dealing with all the shit we do with the ocean, weird stuff that only happens there, maybe ancient evils and stuff that arise from the ocean, etc.
 

Bengraven

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Oct 26, 2017
27,360
Florida
I enjoyed it. Agree it was pretty sloppy for Coogler's usual high quality but I also understand the circumstances between Chadwick and COVID (or is COVID even real?!).

- the Martin Freeman part felt like it was padding, like the Chinese Iron Man scene.

- weak excuse for a war

- how the fuck did M'Baku get an even smaller role?!

Other wise:

+ loved Riri

+ loved Namor

+ loved the emphasis on the DM roles

+ loved Okoye (let her make some adjustments to that loud suit though, please haha)

+\- this is tough for me to say because I acknowledge that while I am close to the issues Letitia Wright has decided to crusades against, I am still in a position of privilege to say that I still liked Shuri. I really enjoyed the character to the point that I was able to shut my mind off except for a couple times (like wondering if Wright should be on a college campus or if the liberal professors were "brainwashing" Riri with their agenda). I think they created an out for her in the end, not just the thing but her character arc.
 

Dreezy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
851
Man I was hoping for Okoye or Nakia to take up the Black Panther mantle, not Shuri. We cheered when Namor stabbed her. I actually liked the tease she would go Killmonger evil, much more interesting character that way, and hoped Nakia would take up the mantle to stop her. Oh well! Looking forward to what they do with BP3.
 

Zomba13

#1 Waluigi Fan! Current Status: Crying
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,042
Watched it yesterday, it was pretty good. Though I was distracted a bit by the image quality. Was it just on my TV or does this movie have a messed up black-level? The darkest color is a dark grey, making the entire movie look muddy and unclear. Especially the underwater parts.

Ok, I thought this was a me problem with having an older 1080p TV. My biggest complaint for most of it is the dark scenes were just... muddy? Unclear? Like there wasn't a great difference in the highs and lows of the scenes at night or underwater. I imagine this wasn't an issue watching in HDR on a nice TV but yeah.

Enjoyed the film though. I liked pretty much everything outside of my issues with how some of the night/underwater scenes looked. I still love Shuri as a character and this film gave her more screen time and range to play with and Letitia Wright is still a great actress. I still have issues with her views but at least she's a great actress who I do enjoy seeing on screen (unlike Evangeline Lilly who is fully gone and someone who I don't get any kind of enjoyment from seeing on screen and is easily the worst part of the Ant-Man films).

Can't wait to see more Riri in the future too.
 

Bengraven

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Oct 26, 2017
27,360
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Man I was hoping for Okoye or Nakia to take up the Black Panther mantle, not Shuri. We cheered when Namor stabbed her. I actually liked the tease she would go Killmonger evil, much more interesting character that way, and hoped Nakia would take up the mantle to stop her. Oh well! Looking forward to what they do with BP3.

That's what I was talking about in my post, I don't think that evil streak is over. I think that's why she understood she could not become queen. Not only did she not want it to focus on her science, but I could see her becoming a Hank McCoy like angry, vengeful scientist.
 

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,431
So is it true there are rights issues similar to Hulk with the character of Namor? Amazing character and actor and I would love to see more of that world. I was wondering during the slow parts of the movie (a lot lol) how the Talokan society dealt with the snap.

Would love a TV series showing Talokan through the centuries dealing with all the shit we do with the ocean, weird stuff that only happens there, maybe ancient evils and stuff that arise from the ocean, etc.
It's true, Marvel Studios can't make a solo Namor film. And yeah, it's too bad because there is a lot of potential in Talokan I'd love to see explored in a solo Namor project but I don't think the concept would work on a TV series budget, way too effects intensive.

- how the fuck did M'Baku get an even smaller role?!
Did he? I didn't feel like he got shortchanged in this compared to the first, he probably has equal to or more screentime in this movie.
 

NookSports

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,246
Half of the Ross and Valerie scenes just felt contractually obligated
The whole of America's intervention just felt unceremoniously dropped. There was a giant naval battle between Wakanda and Talokan with no eyes from any of the other militaries. And at the end Riri just "goes back home" like the FBI won't be looking for her?
 

Bengraven

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Oct 26, 2017
27,360
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It's true, Marvel Studios can't make a solo Namor film. And yeah, it's too bad because there is a lot of potential in Talokan I'd love to see explored in a solo Namor project but I don't think the concept would work on a TV series budget, way too effects intensive.


Did he? I didn't feel like he got shortchanged in this compared to the first, he probably has equal to or more screentime in this movie.

I mean I'm a bit fan so maybe I felt like it was smaller. Maybe because of the big opening fight and the remnants of the royal family needing his help in the last third made him more important. Here he just feels like he's there to be another tent pole soldier and have a moment with Siri a couple times.
 

coffeelvr

Member
Nov 8, 2022
248
Namor is awesome, but I hope they develop his underwater kingdom more in the future.

I wish Nakia had a bigger role tbh. Okoye and Shuri stepped it up for sure.
 

Shemhazai

Member
Aug 13, 2020
6,660
The whole of America's intervention just felt unceremoniously dropped. There was a giant naval battle between Wakanda and Talokan with no eyes from any of the other militaries. And at the end Riri just "goes back home" like the FBI won't be looking for her?
Honestly their inclusion just felt like they decided they couldn't release a movie without some white people in for people to identify with. They were so pointless. Like, at least Riri was there to show her off for Armour Wars (which I don't think they did a very good job selling if I'm being honest, she needed far more time spent developing her and this was emphatically not the movie for that).
 

NookSports

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,246
The extent to which I think this part sucks is that it's almost certainly the setup for the Ironheart TV show, not that they just forgot about the FBI.
It wasn't even addressed though. It was just like "well, I guess I'll be going home see you later!" It's one thing to set something up, and another to just drop a plot line like that.
 

Flaurehn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,392
Mexico City
I watched it first in the theater after an exhausting day and I was super sleepy, so I was waiting for this. Watched it yesterday and really liked it, however

The base conflict was mostly resolved halfway, when Namor was talking with Shuri that was it, not only she was already on board, but from the start of the movie the Queen Ramonda was full on fuck them colonizers mode, so the alliance was all but guaranteed, so it was super weird that Namor went from zero to "I'll kill you all" in a second just to stretch the conflict.

They already had the west trying to destabilize Wakanda so that would've been a better follow up to cause the rift between Wakanda and Tlalocan.

Also the movie was at its best when it was about both cultures rather than the action, but no matter what Feige says you can't really stray too far from the MCU formula