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Who's Going to Win South Carolina?

  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 585 39.2%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 853 57.2%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    Votes: 24 1.6%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    Votes: 7 0.5%
  • THE KLOBBERER

    Votes: 16 1.1%
  • Tom Steyer

    Votes: 6 0.4%

  • Total voters
    1,491
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Jasper

Member
Mar 21, 2018
740
Netherlands
1. Centrist moderate numbers are vastly overrated. See analysis from Geoffrey Skelly on 538 here. That same study links to another of his that points out how they mostly went to Trump last cycle and he only won by a few hundred thousand votes in a few select swing states that had very poor Dem turnout.

2. Per Rachel Bitecofer, a professor who specializes in electoral prediction models and largely nailed the mid-terms, they no longer decide elections.

3. Even allowing the moderate undecideds a seat at the table requires one to acknowledge who they are. 538 has another great study showing that they already have polarized views, they just don't associate strongly with a party despite sharing some non-trivial core ideology.

4. The entire Trump campaign that worked in 2016 was to make the race so distasteful as to keep most moderates from even showing up. Bannon has spoken about this at length so I won't give any of the conservative rags he did so the clicks for covering it. The entire strategy was to mobilize a largely untapped base of alt-right shitheads while making the "moderate" suburban white voters stay home because of how unpleasant politics had become. It worked very, very well.

The Democratic party won the mid-terms because they got moderate dems AND a larger segment of the base than in 2016 to show up.

All polling shows that moderate dems are, like they did in '18, going to show up specifically to vote against Trump, regardless of the Dem candidate. "Moderate" independents broke hard for Trump in '16 already. So either they caught a cup of reality since then or they're already lost regardless of the Dem candidate.

The only candidate with a meaningful X factor to turn out voters is Sanders. There is a massive wealth of <40 voters to be tapped into. If Sanders can do that, which all polling says he and only he can, that is a paradigm shift. He doesn't need to to massively move the needle either.

<30's turned out at about 50% in 2016, as compared to about 58% across the whole field. They'll account for an even larger share of the electorate in 2020. Clinton lost this group in two ways:
1. she got worse turnout than Obama did in both '08 and '12.
2. when <30's did turn out they were far more likely to vote 3rd party. Third party candidates combined for 3% of the vote in 2012. That was up to 8% in 2016. A lot of that went to Gary Johnson and Jill Stein. The former was the "conservative moderate" and libertarian alternative to Donald Trump. Sanders, the longest tenured anti-foreign engagement politician in the country, plays well to that audience even if they don't care for his healthcare policies. The Stein voters were a huge loss for Clinton and likely were a big part of deciding at least two or three swing states. Sanders would almost certainly bring most of them back in the fold.

Conventional political strategy at this point is a both-sides-ism. To believe it you need to believe that there is a vast ocean of moderate undecideds, when all assessments prove the opposite. That those moderates are willing to swing based on candidates and aren't going to instead vote on a single personal issue, like immigration, abortion rights/lack thereof, etc.. That even if some margin of them could be swung they're going to be swung by anything but the economy.

Its wishful, naive thinking. Unless the economy tanks before the election the Dem path to victory is running a candidate who energizes untapped left voters, which amounts to the youth and hispanic voters. Sanders leads both by a wide margin.

That candidate also needs to be unflappable and unwavering in the face of political criticism. The major news networks, CNN and MSNBC included, put far more time digging into Clinton's shit than Trump's shit in '16. That will happen again. They did this because for every "its over" story they had on Trump his support would bounce back within a week and it wouldn't matter. Telling the truth about Trump had less media draw than telling stories about Clinton.

Sanders is that guy too. No one in the Dem Primary has been able to make anything stick to him. Nothing from MSNBC or CNN either. How Fox News covers him is irrelevant because their viewership is already in lockstep with the Trump agenda.

Chuck Todd putting a conservative op-ed on a podium by calling Sanders supporters brownshirts shows the flaw at MSNBC. They went for the Nazi imagery over the actual part that had merit: To win now you need a higher floor of support than ever before as that makes you teflon from the disingenuous reporting we get from for profit media. Sanders is the only candidate on the left who has that.

His supporters are the polar opposite of Trump though. Trumpers are there for the pain and suffering he causes to others. Sanders supporters are there because of the pain and suffering they're experiencing right now in the broken system we have today.

I know multiple people have already quoted you and said how good this post is, but I think it deserves another commendation. Bravo!
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
If Bloomberg is the nomination the Dems 100% lose anyway, Florida or otherwise, so I don't think it's worth humoring too much.

1984 electric boogaloo.

1984_mov.png
it's such an odd thing to be worried about. The way people talk about Bernie and Gillum, you'd think that a more moderate candidate won Florida in 2016. Except that isn't true either - Hillary also lost. Like the former republican governor of Fl couldn't win as a democrat... the idea that "moderate candidates" will win Florida is proven wrong over and over again.
 

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
lol Bernie is straight up trolling Warren by holding a 4 day music festival in MA called Berniepalooza

events.berniesanders.com

BERNIEPALOOZA: A Four-Day Festival Of Music And Canvassing · Bernie 2020

*Four days *Multiple acts *Canvassing, canvassing, canvassing IT IS BERNIEPALOOZA. Join folks from around the country for BERNIEPALOOZA. It is the most fun and helpful way to support Bernie 2020 in Massachusetts on Super Tuesday. Come for one days, two days, four days. WE ARE FRESH OUT OF...
That's unbelievable! Lmao, I love it
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
it's such an odd thing to be worried about. The way people talk about Bernie and Gillum, you'd think that a more moderate candidate won Florida in 2016. Except that isn't true either - Hillary also lost. Like the former republican governor of Fl couldn't win as a democrat... the idea that "moderate candidates" will win Florida is proven wrong over and over again.
The boring establishment guy in the Senate race people were worried about ended up doing better than Gillum in 2018 when virtually everyone expected the opposite.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
Not to mention that Florida's demos, on paper, are moving towards dems.

On paper. Never bet on Florida, though. Always a 1% nailbiter.
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
When was the last time Florida went to a Dem besides Obama? (besides 2000 lmao)
the issue w/ Florida is that it's always possible that a dem wins. like the elections are always w/in a 2% margin. There are a number of takes I find problematic wrt Florida... but the worst one is that the establishment candidate who lost to Gillum in the primary, who couldn't win over voters in Broward or Miami Dade county was actually a stronger candidate than Gillum was.
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,833
Texas
Not to mention that Florida's demos, on paper, are moving towards dems.

On paper. Never bet on Florida, though. Always a 1% nailbiter.
Not sure what demos those are. Hispanic voters in FL tend to still gravitate more towards the GOP at much higher rates than other places it seems. Add in the constant influx of old people who want to see the world burn, and you get FL.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,365
Gotta say, the 2000 election was the first one I ever followed. The Florida controversy was a good way to make me immediately skeptical of this country's ability to function properly going forward.

Eh... FL is just straight up weird. Before that, was Clinton 1996 - then Carter in 1976. They did not vote for Clinton in 1992, though. I want to say 1994 was the last Dem elected as governor in FL too.

Ah, you're right, for some reason I thought Clinton lost Florida in 96. It is indeed a weird state. As a Bernie supporter I've pretty much resigned myself to him not being able to win it.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
Not sure what demos those are. Hispanic voters in FL tend to still gravitate more towards the GOP at much higher rates than other places it seems. Add in the constant influx of old people who want to see the world burn, and you get FL.
I mean, hispanics in Florida might be more con than other hispanics but that's still:

FT_18.10.12_FloridaVoters_LatinosinFlorida.png


Not to mention you've got a ton of Puerto Ricans moving in, who aren't as conservative as Cubans. The old people component in Florida is pretty much a constant, yeah.
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,833
Texas
Gotta say, the 2000 election was the first one I ever followed. The Florida controversy was a good way to make me immediately skeptical of this country's ability to function properly going forward.



Ah, you're right, for some reason I thought Clinton lost Florida in 96. It is indeed a weird state. As a Bernie supporter I've pretty much resigned myself to him not being able to win it.
Yeah FL is toast if Bernie is the nom. But I also no longer count on it for Dems. Better to try to focus on NC, AZ, and for a longer term goal, TX. FL is trending GOP. State level government is dominated by the GOP - although that isn't shocking because major state races like governors are always on presidential off-years. Legislature and House in FL is also GOP dominated. Dems just don't show up for non-presidential races and the bleeding has been long-term there.

Of course, FL voters seem to love Bloomberg. Which is not shocking at all.....
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
lol Bernie is straight up trolling Warren by holding a 4 day music festival in MA called Berniepalooza

events.berniesanders.com

BERNIEPALOOZA: A Four-Day Festival Of Music And Canvassing · Bernie 2020

*Four days *Multiple acts *Canvassing, canvassing, canvassing IT IS BERNIEPALOOZA. Join folks from around the country for BERNIEPALOOZA. It is the most fun and helpful way to support Bernie 2020 in Massachusetts on Super Tuesday. Come for one days, two days, four days. WE ARE FRESH OUT OF...

hopefully they get Touchpants for peak trolling

Gotta say, the 2000 election was the first one I ever followed. The Florida controversy was a good way to make me immediately skeptical of this country's ability to function properly going forward.

ha, same here
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
The boring establishment guy in the Senate race people were worried about ended up doing better than Gillum in 2018 when virtually everyone expected the opposite.
I see what you're saying. but both elections came down to <.5% percentage points anyway - it's not like there was a massive gap in their performances. but I also don't know why more people voted for the senate race than the governor's race. maybe you have an idea.
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,833
Texas
I mean, hispanics in Florida might be more con than other hispanics but that's still:

FT_18.10.12_FloridaVoters_LatinosinFlorida.png


Not to mention you've got a ton of Puerto Ricans moving in, who aren't as conservative as Cubans. The old people component in Florida is pretty much a constant, yeah.
You'd think that would bear out in 2018 with the shameful response and treatment of Trump towards Puerto Rico in the wake of Maria. But it didn't seem to make a difference. But yeah I guess it could be others counteracting those gains. And it certainly isn't bearing out if you look at polls for this cycle. Except for Bloomberg basically. Who is a massive racist piece of shit.
 
OP
OP
Poodlestrike

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,513
Okay. Lets turn this around.
Lets say: that is a threat. Now, I would wager that for people who cant afford medicine, cannot go to the doctor, are in sectors that will see devastating effects of automation, and are most suspectible when a recession hits, electing someone other than a truly progressive candidate is an existential threat. You are free to disagree with my standpoint on this, of course, but given what I have just stated as my belief, it makes total sense to me that one would "threaten" with not voting for just about anyone with a name D alongside its name. It has not worked out for these people in the past, so there is no incentinve to continue doing so.
So, speaking just as myself, I'd be okay with having this argument. I'd point out that all candidates are proposing programs to make care hugely more available, I'd talk about the nature of the automation crisis (and the extent to which it actually exists), and so on. There's a debate to be had there, on the particulars, though of course it's always important to be respectful of the extent to which this is an emotional argument for people, not something you can just break down into numbers and expect to get agreement on.

But a lot of people aren't going to be okay with it, because they're not me, so they take threats more seriously. And when they see one, they respond with hostility, because that's the natural reaction. So that's what I was talking about. The way people react to the "better vote for Bernie or people will stay home" argument from Bernie supporters is going to be colored by that kind of reaction, always, even if you're wrong and it's not meant as a personal threat. Which I'm choosing to believe for now that it's not because honestly it is kind of a shitty thing to do to people.

Anyway - this is getting to be kind of only tangentially related to the Primary OT discussion. If you'd like to PM me we can continue it there, but for now, let's just talk about the election, rather than how people talk about the election.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
I mean, hispanics in Florida might be more con than other hispanics but that's still:

FT_18.10.12_FloridaVoters_LatinosinFlorida.png


Not to mention you've got a ton of Puerto Ricans moving in, who aren't as conservative as Cubans. The old people component in Florida is pretty much a constant, yeah.
Boomer Cubans are staunch anti-Castro and associate Socialism with Communism.

Florida IS Bernie's worst big state
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
You'd think that would bear out in 2018 with the shameful response and treatment of Trump towards Puerto Rico in the wake of Maria. But it didn't seem to make a difference. But yeah I guess it could be others counteracting those gains. And it certainly isn't bearing out if you look at polls for this cycle. Except for Bloomberg basically. Who is a massive racist piece of shit.
As I said, it's more of an "on paper" phenom. On the other hand, a bunch of incumbent pubs got slaughtered downballot there in 2018 and you did have the incarceration voting amendment.
 

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,807
So assuming everything goes smoothly, we should be getting the first results around 5:00 PM EST?
 

Prodigal Son

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,791
Boomer Cubans are staunch anti-Castro and associate Socialism with Communism.

Florida IS Bernie's worst big state
yeah i mean im strongly for bernard but as someone voting in florida its a lost cause. bernie will not win florida lol

So assuming everything goes smoothly, we should be getting the first results around 5:00 PM EST?
That early? dont they usually hold this sorta shit closer to the evening to accommodate schedules better or
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,365
Old white voters in Florida seem like a bigger issue for Bernie/Dems in general than Cuban voters scared of socialism. Cubans don't even make up 10% of Florida's population.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
If only Florida just gave the panhandle to Alabama. It'd be solid blue.
 
Last edited:

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,149
I just questioned my life if I am going to watch hours of Wolf Blitzer on a Saturday afternoon. No hope for me, is there?
 

Kusagari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,603
I mean, hispanics in Florida might be more con than other hispanics but that's still:

FT_18.10.12_FloridaVoters_LatinosinFlorida.png


Not to mention you've got a ton of Puerto Ricans moving in, who aren't as conservative as Cubans. The old people component in Florida is pretty much a constant, yeah.

Part of the problem is Puerto Rican turnout sucks. I saw a study that looked into 2018 recently and they found that the expected Puerto Rican turnout just didn't materialize. Dems have to work better at getting them engaged, the FL Democratic Party is just awful at this.

The conservative Cubans and Venezuelans in Miami are going to turn out regardless.
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,833
Texas
As I said, it's more of an "on paper" phenom. On the other hand, a bunch of incumbent pubs got slaughtered downballot there in 2018 and you did have the incarceration voting amendment.
That will be interesting if SCOTUS doesn't somehow miraculously rule much sooner than expected if the full 11th circuit panel upholds the poll tax finding the smaller panel of judges found. They'll put it on the back burner for after the election if the full 11th circuit finds for FL, and will do everything they can to rush before the election it if the full court sides with the ACLU and others.

I don't know how they would vote, but it would be the GOP being the ones who tried to limit those rights.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
The boring establishment senator guy was an incumbent.
Who ran an awful, lifeless campaign which still did better. His name rec's were terrible compared to Scott's. (So low, in fact, that I'm forgetting his name lol). Gillum unfortunately ended up in the pile of insurgent lefty candidates who we thought would be just fine despite being an insurgent lefty candidate (most prominent example: Amy McGrath) but who ended up underperforming in the general.
 

Zach

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,714
1. Centrist moderate numbers are vastly overrated. See analysis from Geoffrey Skelly on 538 here. That same study links to another of his that points out how they mostly went to Trump last cycle and he only won by a few hundred thousand votes in a few select swing states that had very poor Dem turnout.

2. Per Rachel Bitecofer, a professor who specializes in electoral prediction models and largely nailed the mid-terms, they no longer decide elections.

3. Even allowing the moderate undecideds a seat at the table requires one to acknowledge who they are. 538 has another great study showing that they already have polarized views, they just don't associate strongly with a party despite sharing some non-trivial core ideology.

4. The entire Trump campaign that worked in 2016 was to make the race so distasteful as to keep most moderates from even showing up. Bannon has spoken about this at length so I won't give any of the conservative rags he did so the clicks for covering it. The entire strategy was to mobilize a largely untapped base of alt-right shitheads while making the "moderate" suburban white voters stay home because of how unpleasant politics had become. It worked very, very well.

The Democratic party won the mid-terms because they got moderate dems AND a larger segment of the base than in 2016 to show up.

All polling shows that moderate dems are, like they did in '18, going to show up specifically to vote against Trump, regardless of the Dem candidate. "Moderate" independents broke hard for Trump in '16 already. So either they caught a cup of reality since then or they're already lost regardless of the Dem candidate.

The only candidate with a meaningful X factor to turn out voters is Sanders. There is a massive wealth of <40 voters to be tapped into. If Sanders can do that, which all polling says he and only he can, that is a paradigm shift. He doesn't need to to massively move the needle either.

<30's turned out at about 50% in 2016, as compared to about 58% across the whole field. They'll account for an even larger share of the electorate in 2020. Clinton lost this group in two ways:
1. she got worse turnout than Obama did in both '08 and '12.
2. when <30's did turn out they were far more likely to vote 3rd party. Third party candidates combined for 3% of the vote in 2012. That was up to 8% in 2016. A lot of that went to Gary Johnson and Jill Stein. The former was the "conservative moderate" and libertarian alternative to Donald Trump. Sanders, the longest tenured anti-foreign engagement politician in the country, plays well to that audience even if they don't care for his healthcare policies. The Stein voters were a huge loss for Clinton and likely were a big part of deciding at least two or three swing states. Sanders would almost certainly bring most of them back in the fold.

Conventional political strategy at this point is a both-sides-ism. To believe it you need to believe that there is a vast ocean of moderate undecideds, when all assessments prove the opposite. That those moderates are willing to swing based on candidates and aren't going to instead vote on a single personal issue, like immigration, abortion rights/lack thereof, etc.. That even if some margin of them could be swung they're going to be swung by anything but the economy.

Its wishful, naive thinking. Unless the economy tanks before the election the Dem path to victory is running a candidate who energizes untapped left voters, which amounts to the youth and hispanic voters. Sanders leads both by a wide margin.

That candidate also needs to be unflappable and unwavering in the face of political criticism. The major news networks, CNN and MSNBC included, put far more time digging into Clinton's shit than Trump's shit in '16. That will happen again. They did this because for every "its over" story they had on Trump his support would bounce back within a week and it wouldn't matter. Telling the truth about Trump had less media draw than telling stories about Clinton.

Sanders is that guy too. No one in the Dem Primary has been able to make anything stick to him. Nothing from MSNBC or CNN either. How Fox News covers him is irrelevant because their viewership is already in lockstep with the Trump agenda.

Chuck Todd putting a conservative op-ed on a podium by calling Sanders supporters brownshirts shows the flaw at MSNBC. They went for the Nazi imagery over the actual part that had merit: To win now you need a higher floor of support than ever before as that makes you teflon from the disingenuous reporting we get from for profit media. Sanders is the only candidate on the left who has that.

His supporters are the polar opposite of Trump though. Trumpers are there for the pain and suffering he causes to others. Sanders supporters are there because of the pain and suffering they're experiencing right now in the broken system we have today.
Highly informative post, my friend. I hope you, and Bern, and the folks you cite are correct as heck.
 

Darren Lamb

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,836
I love how people think that anyone but sanders, warren and steyer are going to save the planet as well.

www.greenpeace.org

The results are in. The official #Climate2020 scorecard | Greenpeace USA

Find out where your candidate is on a #GreenNewDeal and saying #NoToFossilFuels

No one is going to "save" the planet, but even shitty-ass Bloomberg would slightly slow down the decline. I'd love to send the DNC a message and not vote for him if he's the nominee, but four years is too long to deal with someone who is actively accelerating our demise.

lol Bernie is straight up trolling Warren by holding a 4 day music festival in MA called Berniepalooza

events.berniesanders.com

BERNIEPALOOZA: A Four-Day Festival Of Music And Canvassing · Bernie 2020

*Four days *Multiple acts *Canvassing, canvassing, canvassing IT IS BERNIEPALOOZA. Join folks from around the country for BERNIEPALOOZA. It is the most fun and helpful way to support Bernie 2020 in Massachusetts on Super Tuesday. Come for one days, two days, four days. WE ARE FRESH OUT OF...

In Worcester though. Great area for him. I wonder how it's going to play out in Boston and all the inner suburbs; he'll probably take the city and college crowd and Warren will take the burbs
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,685
Who ran an awful, lifeless campaign which still did better. His name rec's were terrible compared to Scott's. (So low, in fact, that I'm forgetting his name lol). Gillum unfortunately ended up in the pile of insurgent lefty candidates who we thought would be just fine despite being an insurgent lefty candidate (most prominent example: Amy McGrath) but who ended up underperforming in the general.
Gillum had given up on his earlier M4A support and was campaigning with Hillary Clinton before the General. Not saying he wasn't a lefty candidate (he was propelled to the top of the Dem primary by a small but enthusiastic group of leftist voters) but there were other things at play there, such as DeSantis running a disgusting, outwardly racist campaign, something the incumbent senator guy didn't really have to contend with.
 

HipsterMorty

alt account
Banned
Jan 25, 2020
901
Klobs does have a really good track record in her state. Like, on paper her ability to flip things electorally is amazing. The problem is that, outside of paper, she's not a particularly good speaker and the country is pretty sexist. And, honestly, she has been outperforming her polling numbers despite being low name rec.

Personally, my take is all the candidates are bad electorally, only reason Joe and Bernie are polling well nationally is because of just how shit Trump is. Any other pub in this economy would be up in the sky sailing to re-election.

I mean, this is how voters poll on the economy:


Only 8% of voters view the economy as poor atm from these polls, 59% view the economy as getting better with 33% view it as getting worse.

And pretty much every pollster shows similar numbers. It's just that Trump's shittiness has overridden that in the minds of most voters in 2018 and this year.

Also, random addendum, just look at how those economic anxiety numbers go away without the black man in office despite the fact that we're going at no faster a rate than we were under Obama.
Yeah it's sad to see that even our best candidates only poll marginally better than trump in the key states we need to win. But I think there's a lot of important information polls don't capture like how exciting a candidate is. Look at the Hillary v Trump polls from 2016 - polls showed Hillary 6 points ahead of Trump in Wisconsin for example and she ended up losing by less than a percent.

The more important thing than polling is just raw turnout. Another user said it earlier today: Sanders has that X Factor that the other candidates don't. He excites young voters who barely turned out in 2016. Also an express goal of his campaign is to offer something new in order to activate non voters. It would push him over the edge that Hillary wasn't able to surpass.

The thing that's reassuring for me is that data shows that with Trump, Republicans have hit their ceiling for how energized they can be. But with Democrats, even in the midterms, we have a huge number of registered voters who didn't show up. Our strategy should revolve around turning out that missing piece. We don't win by being more popular among people who already vote, we win by giving people a good reason to show up at the polls. It's why I think Bernie is a lot stronger in the GE than people think.

As for the economy stuff, it's depressing at first blush but it doesn't seem as bad upon further reflection. Yes we have a great economy, yes it's easier to find a good job because of how competitive the job market is. But I think people still recognize there are economic issues, even if they don't attribute the problem to the economy. 67% of people support a $15 minimum wage. I think people realize that despite our economy being great, there's still a huge level of inequality when it comes to who sees most of the the benefit of that great economy. And it's no surprise that the candidate talking the most about that exact thing is the front runner.
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
is the idea that Nelson didn't benefit at all from Gillum running? even as we admit he had low name recognition?
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Part of the problem is Puerto Rican turnout sucks. I saw a study that looked into 2018 recently and they found that the expected Puerto Rican turnout just didn't materialize. Dems have to work better at getting them engaged, the FL Democratic Party is just awful at this.

The conservative Cubans and Venezuelans in Miami are going to turn out regardless.
With all the money Bloomberg's been throwing around, investing into FL party infrastructure would seem like it's high ROI as it's a place that could badly use the help.
 

dots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,898
lol Bernie is straight up trolling Warren by holding a 4 day music festival in MA called Berniepalooza

events.berniesanders.com

BERNIEPALOOZA: A Four-Day Festival Of Music And Canvassing · Bernie 2020

*Four days *Multiple acts *Canvassing, canvassing, canvassing IT IS BERNIEPALOOZA. Join folks from around the country for BERNIEPALOOZA. It is the most fun and helpful way to support Bernie 2020 in Massachusetts on Super Tuesday. Come for one days, two days, four days. WE ARE FRESH OUT OF...
I don't think that "trying to get votes" qualifies as trolling.
 

Kusagari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,603
is the idea that Nelson didn't benefit at all from Gillum running? even as we admit he had low name recognition?

Nelson out performed Gillum, so it would be really hard to say Gillum benefited him.

If anything, Gillum being connected to SoCIaLISM through his Bernie Sanders connection might have helped tank Nelson in Dade.
 

V_Arnold

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,166
Hungary
Poodlestrike you are right, of course, it is a completely different debat when phrased that. I do not want to clutter this thread with it, I just wanted to point out that it is a debate that not we should have, but one that should be up on the main stage, asked from the candidates, about how they will factor in the increasing progressive policy needs to their agenda, no matter who wins. Maybe that would be more productive (and will happen post-convention) for them compared to the way these debates usually go, with not enough time to properly expand on views such as this.
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,685
is the idea that Nelson didn't benefit at all from Gillum running? even as we admit he had low name recognition?
Nelson did 0 actual campaigning and didn't even have his campaigning material translated to Spanish - he was terrible and I blame him for tanking both his and Gillum's campaigns. Voldemort was highly unpopular amid the red tide mess and still managed to eek out a win because Nelson didn't give a fuck.
 
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