cool cool cool but how does that make you feel about the players involved. specific players. name some names and point fingers.
Ay lay off i spent the whole bloody day catching up, literally just went to make dinner after that post.
Fried Scallops, fuckin nailed it, be jealous.
whats more i want to make a proper review of it before i go for the jugular, didnt realise i was hourly.
As far as my leaning from said catch up go, Maol is sticking out the most as what felt like the biggest proponent of the "lets get it over with" argument, coupled with the claim that it would give precious precious info, he went into that claiming he was right but honestly i dont think what he gleaned is anywhere close to worth the risk lunching them was, and trying to sell it like a net gain seems...sus.
Im planning on going to review it all without the stress of seeing the page count continue to increase, primarily with the focus of those that voted without much hullabaloo past the lovers claim.
The further explanation and play Reki showed after i left was better, but not out of the realms of potential face saving damage control.
Basically its a lighter scum lean now, and doesn't feel all that relevant now that the games really started and we have some real mess to dig through.
Would scum not purchase a single item on D1? This is all known info at this point, but don't add to it unless you think it is absolutely a good thing.
Dice - Fat / ATP
Cup - Hawthorn / ???
Hoodie - Kyan / nin
N64 - Chuggs
Assuming you all choose trust me, can Chuggs, Fat and ATP all be town? Woudn't scum want to at least check one of the items out to test the mechanics and the power level of the items? The cup, if it exists, can be anywhere but in my hands. In addition, two people had the cash for Snorlax: wee and VA.
Or is there a chance that scum just kept their cash so that Faddy can plant the bomb N1 and then scum can use their cash to leave nothing but the bomb in the store on D2?
Dice - Fat / ATP
Cup - Hawthorn / ???
Hoodie - Kyan / nin
N64 - Chuggs
Assuming you all choose trust me, can Chuggs, Fat and ATP all be town? Woudn't scum want to at least check one of the items out to test the mechanics and the power level of the items? The cup, if it exists, can be anywhere but in my hands. In addition, two people had the cash for Snorlax: wee and VA.
Or is there a chance that scum just kept their cash so that Faddy can plant the bomb N1 and then scum can use their cash to leave nothing but the bomb in the store on D2?
Let's read Faddy.
Outside of trying to pool money on wee since they 'asked first' there isn't a whole lot. I do find it interesting that a few posts after Launch asked Reki to undo their bet (which they did) Faddy suddenly just posts this. Note that before this no one really openly said Reki was scum? There was just some conversation happening so it wasn't 'uncalled for' but Faddy felt strong enough to mention them.
Faddy scumreading a teammate but not committing? Just not thinking a Reki push would be that strong? Dunno, really. But I will say that Reki indirectly protects Faddy by going after Chuggs. They try to paint Chuggs' as overreacting to a small thing and this is evidence of being Scum. No real comment against Faddy as it mostly focuses on Chuggs. It is highlighted here:
Now the Faddy 'push' is interesting since there were people around that either commented or just held discussion when Chuggs' goes off on him but they don't really take a side. It isn't until Jman swoops in that people finally start planting down opinions.
Pancakes pushed the train to Faddy here instead of Hawthorn.
tl;dr
Reki maybe sus? Not liking that push against Chuggs' when Faddy was the main culprit.
Pancakes is probably Town.
Maol gets 'hmmm sus' points for keeping himself open early on when Faddy wasn't a for sure thing but Faddy's subsequent omgus vote for being called out by Maol makes me feel better. Probs Town
VA always feels scummy to me but he was an early adopter of the 'faddy is scum' train and even voted there. Doubt a teammate would do that so early.
Jman be townie as hell so therefore Donna is townie as hell.
Weirdly enough Launch was around all this but getting a concrete opinion out of him about Faddy wasn't readily apparent? Slight iffy feelings there, not gonna lie. By extension this goes to wee and Kyaa as well but they weren't as...comprehensive as Launch was. He was talking about nearly everything going on but again his opinion is hard to find.
Outside of trying to pool money on wee since they 'asked first' there isn't a whole lot. I do find it interesting that a few posts after Launch asked Reki to undo their bet (which they did) Faddy suddenly just posts this. Note that before this no one really openly said Reki was scum? There was just some conversation happening so it wasn't 'uncalled for' but Faddy felt strong enough to mention them.
This is later on when Faddy is asked about reads. Again note the Reki read.
And now after Chuggs goes for Faddy's throat he comes to the conclusion that maybe Chuggs lied but that he was still Town in the end. The important bit here is that he had no other good scum read despite pinging Reki twice.
Faddy scumreading a teammate but not committing? Just not thinking a Reki push would be that strong? Dunno, really. But I will say that Reki indirectly protects Faddy by going after Chuggs. They try to paint Chuggs' as overreacting to a small thing and this is evidence of being Scum. No real comment against Faddy as it mostly focuses on Chuggs. It is highlighted here:
Now the Faddy 'push' is interesting since there were people around that either commented or just held discussion when Chuggs' goes off on him but they don't really take a side. It isn't until Jman swoops in that people finally start planting down opinions.
VA in agreement with Jman
Pancakes pushed the train to Faddy here instead of Hawthorn.
tl;dr
Reki maybe sus? Not liking that push against Chuggs' when Faddy was the main culprit.
Pancakes is probably Town.
Maol gets 'hmmm sus' points for keeping himself open early on when Faddy wasn't a for sure thing but Faddy's subsequent omgus vote for being called out by Maol makes me feel better. Probs Town
VA always feels scummy to me but he was an early adopter of the 'faddy is scum' train and even voted there. Doubt a teammate would do that so early.
Jman be townie as hell so therefore Donna is townie as hell.
Weirdly enough Launch was around all this but getting a concrete opinion out of him about Faddy wasn't readily apparent? Slight iffy feelings there, not gonna lie. By extension this goes to wee and Kyaa as well but they weren't as...comprehensive as Launch was. He was talking about nearly everything going on but again his opinion is hard to find.
nah you gotta live in this thread, it's why we pay you.
While Maol is someone who self-proclaimed he enjoys 'controlling the conversation' do you feel strongly enough that Faddy would OMGUS his teammate and then follow that by hard pushing for the lovers?
And yeah, no rush. We have this Night Phase and then a whooooole Day Phase to go before we lunch again. :u
Hmmmm. I would expect at least some scum to try out the money mechanic. This could possibly be the owner of the second cup or, if I 'had to pick between you 4, ATP or Fat. But I wouldn't expect scum to all spend their money on Day 1 so I doubt it's more than maybe one or two.
Gonna get some zzz but it might be worth looking at initial reactions to Faddy's suggestion of pooling money? Kyaa's post made me think that scum would've acted hesitant towards his idea in thread and left themselves open to it if people bought on. Dunno if anything would be there but, hey.
OP
OP
I agree with almost all of this.
1) My Reki read is a little all over the place. I've played with town!Reki - they look like the Reki we have in this game, and they were unfairly maligned in those games. That said, I have heard town!Reki is near indistinguishable from scum!Reki, so more information is necessary. I think just like there are points against them this game, as you pointed out, there are points in their favor (i.e. undoing the bet with me when asked, some solid reasoning).
2) VA feels very town to me, including the specific thing you mentioned. Just a gut feeling there, but just many things he has said feel town.
While I don't disagree with anyone on your list, I would ask how strongly you feel about these reads?
From my perspective, I'm starting to get worried because there are an alarmingly few number of players I am getting anything suspicious out of, which makes me think we are working with a scum team that is better at blending than Faddy was. Hawthorn was my second strongest scum read, and I don't have much after that; just a bunch of town reads.
This is where I'm at too.
You were my strongest scum read and while not completely cleared you do look a lot better.
There were a few people who were voting on nin and throwing a lot of shade about him not being his normal self, I need to find those posts, can't remember who was saying that
Let me post this list before I go and start running with it, in case anyone has any thoughts:
Strong Town
Kyan
Maol
Dr. Monkey
donna
Slight Town
VA
Pancakes
Chugg
wee
ATP
Null
A
Reki
Neeks
Zipped
Stan
Fat4All
LP
rac
Hedin
turm
Blarg
Sparks
Strong Town
Kyan
Maol
Dr. Monkey
donna
Slight Town
VA
Pancakes
Chugg
wee
ATP
Null
A
Reki
Neeks
Zipped
Stan
Fat4All
LP
rac
Hedin
turm
Blarg
Sparks
I've seen wee make a couple people's list and I'm not sure what they've done to get these town leans?
Question for everyone; do you see meanie!LP - purposefully or not - avoiding to post until the very end there? Doesn't make sense in my head. Like, there's the meme and then there's having some consideration for your teammates.
Thank you for expanding on it. That vote from Sparks came right after you put down a vote on Hawthorn in your exchange with Zipped, and didn't move for more than a thousand posts later. Which is a bit more "disciplined", for lack of a better term, than what I'd normally expect from Sparks.
Still kinda agree more with Aeleus' approach to that read, though, but I'll keep this in mind.
Seems like this was cut out, but thanks for clarifying.
Still think "mad" implies more than plain surprise and enters in the territory of light questioning, though.
The way I see it, it'd be hard for these two to be W/W provided the description of what that thing does is true. If you're in that chat, buy the Dice and get "Random Redirect", I don't think the decision is for yet another member to buy a thing that could randomly affect you when you could let town do it for themselves with how little info they have to work with and without losing money.
Don't think it could be a non-random Redirect either, $500 for that seems on the low end considering how messed-up things could get.
I voted nin but don't recall saying he wasn't his normal self.
What I disliked was him seemingly staying at the sidelines and jumping in to drop some shade or snark here and there; then accusing Launch of voting without a case without making the effort to make a case for Launch himself.
Also he ignored my request to do that but whatever.
Thank you for expanding on it. That vote from Sparks came right after you put down a vote on Hawthorn in your exchange with Zipped, and didn't move for more than a thousand posts later. Which is a bit more "disciplined", for lack of a better term, than what I'd normally expect from Sparks.
Still kinda agree more with Aeleus' approach to that read, though, but I'll keep this in mind.
Seems like this was cut out, but thanks for clarifying.
Still think "mad" implies more than plain surprise and enters in the territory of light questioning, though.
The way I see it, it'd be hard for these two to be W/W provided the description of what that thing does is true. If you're in that chat, buy the Dice and get "Random Redirect", I don't think the decision is for yet another member to buy a thing that could randomly affect you when you could let town do it for themselves with how little info they have to work with and without losing money.
Don't think it could be a non-random Redirect either, $500 for that seems on the low end considering how messed-up things could get.
I voted nin but don't recall saying he wasn't his normal self.
What I disliked was him seemingly staying at the sidelines and jumping in to drop some shade or snark here and there; then accusing Launch of voting without a case without making the effort to make a case for Launch himself.
Zipped
Tl;dr: relies meta reads to inform opinion on Hawthorn. Votes Hawthorn for majority of D1, then jumps to turm for day end once Hawthorn/nin have claimed. Does not directly interact with Faddy at all, and very rarely references him. Zipped and turm are likely not scum together. Overall, I find Zipped pretty suspect.
Tl;dr: relies meta reads to inform opinion on Hawthorn. Votes Hawthorn for majority of D1, then jumps to turm for day end once Hawthorn/nin have claimed. Does not directly interact with Faddy at all, and very rarely references him. Zipped and turm are likely not scum together. Overall, I find Zipped pretty suspect.
This is a weird train of thought that I can't make heads or tails out of. What does Zipped gain from this trust exercise? Is this related to his role ability? Is it just for fun?
The explanation doesn't really clarify. No conclusion here from me, just a weird thing to point out.
Uses past experiences with Hawthorn, Blarg, and me to define reads. I think there's a line between using a meta read and just saying "I've been burned before", but that might be splitting hairs. Zipped rides that Hawthorn check all the way to the bank. I'm not sure if it's scum play, but it's definitely bad play. This is going to point out flaws in my own Hawthorn read, but Hawthorn was the lowest poster after LP. Why not move to literally anyone else who has been more active sooner? It could be because the only other wagon with traction - Faddy - was a scum teammate.
Zipped avoids providing a read on Kyan. He is possibly trying to avoid committing to a read, since whatever information I have might make Zipped look bad later down the road.
Zipped makes sure to jump off the Hawthorn train before it derails. Zipped jumps to turm here on the basis that turm defended Faddy, but does not address any of the other players, like Chugg, who also defended Faddy. The inconsistency in applying that logic to other players makes me believe that Zipped was grasping for a reason to get off the Hawthorn train at the last minute because he was aware that the lovers claim would turn out to be true.
These posts, right?
Obviously now we know nin was side-eyeeing votes on Hawthorn because his life was tied to hers, but his unwillingness to engage in more talk about it was what looked sus, imo.
This was my guess as well and, as such, I didn't want to pursue further questioning there, at least for D1.
This is similar to the point I brought up about rac last night. But I do recall Zipped giving me a town point or two for no reason at all somewhere, so dunno.
No, nonono, we're playing Pokémon Stadium.
At least for my part, it's a meta read. wee is acting as they usually do, so I'm slightly more comfortable with them.
No, I don't see scum!LP ghosting teammates, or even just playing a less active game than usual if he is scum.
I'm sorry, I get excited very easily.
I think I mentioned it, but I believed at the very least the first three votes on me (ATP, jman, and nin) were probably coming from town. From my experience, this was pretty consistent with nin's past behavior, acting impulsively and without much in the way of explanation (even when, as we now know, his life depended on it). I kept quiet after awhile to see what else shook loose - eventually Blarg joined, and I'll get to him in a bit after I sift through all these... very informational and content-filled posts. From a general meta sense, dropping a vote with little explanation is an obviously anti-town thing to do, and my experience is that scum will go out of their way to reason out a vote to make sure they are not called out for this infraction.
This is not me trying to vindicate myself; when the lovers claimed came out, I was all in on thinking Hawthorn/nin were scum. Just sharing my two cents on what nin did there.
On the other hand, maybe he was just taking the piss lol It seems like he accomplished nothing with this.
How reliable are meta reads? This is only my second game but I feel like it should be pretty easy to play in a similar style whether your town or scum.
I mean look at all the meta reads on hawthorn?
It just seems like kind of lazy analysis? But I'm in mt 2nd game maybe it is a much more useful lens than I imagine.
I mean look at all the meta reads on hawthorn?
It just seems like kind of lazy analysis? But I'm in mt 2nd game maybe it is a much more useful lens than I imagine.
Going out right now but will try to post here and there, folks.
AllThingsPurple something I recalled when reading that post of yours.
You called out Maol and Hedin for those votes on Hawthorn, but not Sparks. I believe you talked about him "not being useful" in a later post, but didn't mention his vote at all. Would you mind elaborating?
Also, you called out the votes on Hawthorn for a "meta-fear", so to speak. Have you commented on Maol's shading of Blarg? Because it seems to be backed-up by a similar sentiment.
Thanks in advance.
That's good. Sometimes it's in these gut-reaction posts that one can find the truth.
AllThingsPurple something I recalled when reading that post of yours.
You called out Maol and Hedin for those votes on Hawthorn, but not Sparks. I believe you talked about him "not being useful" in a later post, but didn't mention his vote at all. Would you mind elaborating?
Also, you called out the votes on Hawthorn for a "meta-fear", so to speak. Have you commented on Maol's shading of Blarg? Because it seems to be backed-up by a similar sentiment.
Thanks in advance.
That's good. Sometimes it's in these gut-reaction posts that one can find the truth.
My take is that they can be useful, but only to an extent. Relying on one might be able to inform your perspective on a player for a little bit, but you need to use data from the game you're playing, too. I would not base everything off a meta read, and I'll get to that in a second. Eventually, you learn to read how players tend to act under certain situations, but you need to look at the situations themselves and what the motivators for acting that way are - who are they protecting, are they bussing, why are they crediting/discrediting another player, etc.
The other key thing and how I tend to do this is about breaking big games down into chunks. I liked what Reki did of pointing out the low activity players as a starting point, but meta reads are a good way to do that, too. There are 22 players left - trying to tackle them all is impossible. I am sifting out those I have somewhat of a sense about, not exclusively because of meta but meta definitely being a component, and just looking at my null reads right now. Just develop them as another tool in your toolbox.
Yes, I know this is all pretty rich from the guy who gunned for a Hawthorn lynch. It wasn't all meta, but the rest was bad, too.
First of all, hello again to anyone I didn't respond to last night XD - typing on my phone so it was a bit of a pain ^^;
Outside of the more recent pages, not yet. I am going to spent the next bit of time as I wake up to catch up ^^
Outside of the more recent pages, not yet. I am going to spent the next bit of time as I wake up to catch up ^^
To the second point blarg didn't have a vote train on them. I did have my vote on blarg for a large part of day 1 till I moved it to launch. If blarg is town his play style is a hindrance to the rest of us (no offence blarg) a town hawthorn seems more valuable than a town blarg imo.
As for the first point I don't think I called out maol and hedin? I understood their votes at the time, it was only launch pushing a 3 vote train to a 4 vote and tie it up that raised my suspicions.
Sparks is like blarg to me, I can't read them and don't think they are helpful either way, but I favoured sparks over blarg because he was town and got launched d1 last game.
Not sure if this answers your questions or not.
Aw fuck i was gonna actually do mafia shit today then i spent like 3 hours making whats basically berserk fanart while seeing the NZ election results come in (ahha suck it Peteres a nationalist prick) and now my brain is fried.
also alchohol that happened to somehwere in there.
so thats my life right now how yall feeling?
also alchohol that happened to somehwere in there.
so thats my life right now how yall feeling?
about 30% of my play can be boiled down to the drink
anyways this is fuckin N1, I DESERVE A NOGHT OFF DAMMIT
right?
im right, right?
anyways this is fuckin N1, I DESERVE A NOGHT OFF DAMMIT
donna was the jman replacement
right?
im right, right?
oh good its not just me.
oh even gooder its really not just me
Honey whisky mixed with NZ's world famous (in NZ) L&P.
shits fucking dangerous, it goes down *way* to easy
Also the idea that blarg is a bet arsonist are pretty silly given he locked himself out of bets via a game of noughts and crosses
I was scum and subbed out once, but for work related issuesWhat if jmans meltdown was the ultimate scum play to give his replacement super town cred!
i think scum won that game
it's only a problem when i die and cant shitpost anymore
Is it a good idea or a bad idea to discuss who we think mafia are likely to target for a night kill?
fuck it, it's not like scum will care if you speculate
they're gonna kill me because im too cool anyways
I vote for me
if i was scum id be so afraid of me id shat and piss like"oh fuck, detective fat for all is stiill amongst the livening"
they kill me and then town avenges me
"how dare they kill fat for all, these scum bastards are bastards" etc etc
if i was scum id be so afraid of me id shat and piss like"oh fuck, detective fat for all is stiill amongst the livening"
they kill me and then town avenges me
"how dare they kill fat for all, these scum bastards are bastards" etc etc
I'll play ball. They should kill Kyan for a few reasons:
1) Kyan is not protected from night kills
2) It could be perceived as scum!Launchpad trying to prove his role
3) Kyan is generally town read
4) Kyan is actually good at this game