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It's Trans Awareness Week! (Nov 13th -19th)
- Thread starter Kyuuji
- Start date
more than anything the symbolism of all this falling on Trans Awareness Week is almost Shakespearean
If you don't find something more specific and helpful, the dating era discord is mostly just a chill place for talking about our days and sharing thoughts. Feel free to pop in, link is in the thread OP I believe. If you don't find the link or it doesn't work, shoot me a PM.
As post #673 so articulately points out, the issue goes higher up the ladder than just the mod team. IMO, and pardon me for resorting to this term, likely an entire reset is in order if we wish some semblance of reform here.
Banned for this? Let's echo.
The first part is a good first step as it is actually addressing an issue that has been a long running issue on this site and online in general. Outrage culture, left eating itself, woke culture, and bad faith arguing are all used incorrectly by people and used primarily as a way to dismiss people as not being genuine so that they don't have to actually entertain that they could be wrong. It's incredibly similar to the arguments that people have used in the past that accuse people of virtue signalling which has been actioned quite a bit, which is why it was frustrating to see things regress on this front.
The issue that exists within the pronoun section is the implications that doing something like that carries if it's not explicitly said. People who willfully misgender trans people are telling us that they don't really see trans people as the gender that we are, that we aren't valid. When someone does this explicitly for all trans people, that is abundantly clear. However, there are times where someone will see a trans person doing something criminal and they'll start to fall back into using the wrong pronouns. This shows that they don't see us as valid as much as they see our identities as a courtesy or a polite gesture that can be taken back when needed. We have been told in the past that people who do not see trans women as women, trans men as men, or trans people in general as valid will be perma'd instantly when they reveal this, and I think that willful misgendering should fall into that category as well.
And you're right that trans people are individuals, but you sort of start to counteract that with your very next part. Staff members and regular members are not treated the same way, and it's always been apparent to everyone who posts on this forum to the point that it's a running joke in a lot of circles here. I'm not talking about who makes decisions on reports, but the way that hostility is treated as well as the way that bigotry is actioned. If someone insults another member, they'll get a warning or at most a day ban if they don't have a history. But, if someone comes after the moderation or express frustration they'll more than likely get 5 days to a week at minimum. I don't think that you all should be facing harassment of any kind, but this is one of the easily verifiable things on the site that people have seen.
The way that bigotry is handled by people on Staff is also a bit strange. There was that one transphobic post by a moderator that when posted by anyone else would have been a month ban, but in this case, they were just talked to and allowed to stay on the team. When evidence was presented of how they had said these things throughout their time on GAF before this, it was dismissed and considered resolved. There are also chats that have been shown to people about a moderator on the staff talking in the discord about how Asexuals should not be a part of the LGBT+ community and instead of any challenging or talking through, was essentially told that people could see where they were coming from, to not feel bad, and then dropped.
These things are always going to be treated differently because these people that are on the team are more easily reached, more easily talked to than the people on the forum, but these double standards that people see on top of the regressions that have happened in some topics are going to frustrate people. Of course you guys care about the site, but you often seem to be under the impression that you're the only ones who do and the rest of us are just trying to stick it to you instead of doing what we can from our own end. The users of this site are people too, and you can't expect us to take just as much abuse as you when we have no ways of pushing back against it.
It's not that you all aren't open to listening or feedback, so much as the opinions on people of staff are typically held higher than the rest. Which is somewhat understandable as you're able to have longer and more in-depth conversations as you're in a discord together, but is part of the issue I have with this "Trans people are individuals" line. I get what your point is. There are threads where people are upset about an issue going on and telling someone that they don't care about trans issues without knowing the first thing about the person they're talking to. That isn't good, and that should be taken care of, but when we're able to recognize that trans people are going to differ on some of these minute topics it can't all come down to the weight of whichever trans mod is online at that particular moment to make the call every time. Because I'm dating someone who was on the mod team for almost 2 years and had a lot of conversations with you all, I know that it's rare for more than one trans mod to be around and tackling reports. And I think you all need to be more open to the idea that people aren't reporting what they see as bigotry for no reason.
The first part is a good first step as it is actually addressing an issue that has been a long running issue on this site and online in general. Outrage culture, left eating itself, woke culture, and bad faith arguing are all used incorrectly by people and used primarily as a way to dismiss people as not being genuine so that they don't have to actually entertain that they could be wrong. It's incredibly similar to the arguments that people have used in the past that accuse people of virtue signalling which has been actioned quite a bit, which is why it was frustrating to see things regress on this front.
The issue that exists within the pronoun section is the implications that doing something like that carries if it's not explicitly said. People who willfully misgender trans people are telling us that they don't really see trans people as the gender that we are, that we aren't valid. When someone does this explicitly for all trans people, that is abundantly clear. However, there are times where someone will see a trans person doing something criminal and they'll start to fall back into using the wrong pronouns. This shows that they don't see us as valid as much as they see our identities as a courtesy or a polite gesture that can be taken back when needed. We have been told in the past that people who do not see trans women as women, trans men as men, or trans people in general as valid will be perma'd instantly when they reveal this, and I think that willful misgendering should fall into that category as well.
And you're right that trans people are individuals, but you sort of start to counteract that with your very next part. Staff members and regular members are not treated the same way, and it's always been apparent to everyone who posts on this forum to the point that it's a running joke in a lot of circles here. I'm not talking about who makes decisions on reports, but the way that hostility is treated as well as the way that bigotry is actioned. If someone insults another member, they'll get a warning or at most a day ban if they don't have a history. But, if someone comes after the moderation or express frustration they'll more than likely get 5 days to a week at minimum. I don't think that you all should be facing harassment of any kind, but this is one of the easily verifiable things on the site that people have seen.
The way that bigotry is handled by people on Staff is also a bit strange. There was that one transphobic post by a moderator that when posted by anyone else would have been a month ban, but in this case, they were just talked to and allowed to stay on the team. When evidence was presented of how they had said these things throughout their time on GAF before this, it was dismissed and considered resolved. There are also chats that have been shown to people about a moderator on the staff talking in the discord about how Asexuals should not be a part of the LGBT+ community and instead of any challenging or talking through, was essentially told that people could see where they were coming from, to not feel bad, and then dropped.
These things are always going to be treated differently because these people that are on the team are more easily reached, more easily talked to than the people on the forum, but these double standards that people see on top of the regressions that have happened in some topics are going to frustrate people. Of course you guys care about the site, but you often seem to be under the impression that you're the only ones who do and the rest of us are just trying to stick it to you instead of doing what we can from our own end. The users of this site are people too, and you can't expect us to take just as much abuse as you when we have no ways of pushing back against it.
It's not that you all aren't open to listening or feedback, so much as the opinions on people of staff are typically held higher than the rest. Which is somewhat understandable as you're able to have longer and more in-depth conversations as you're in a discord together, but is part of the issue I have with this "Trans people are individuals" line. I get what your point is. There are threads where people are upset about an issue going on and telling someone that they don't care about trans issues without knowing the first thing about the person they're talking to. That isn't good, and that should be taken care of, but when we're able to recognize that trans people are going to differ on some of these minute topics it can't all come down to the weight of whichever trans mod is online at that particular moment to make the call every time. Because I'm dating someone who was on the mod team for almost 2 years and had a lot of conversations with you all, I know that it's rare for more than one trans mod to be around and tackling reports. And I think you all need to be more open to the idea that people aren't reporting what they see as bigotry for no reason.
Thank you for this. The staff here should really take these suggestions to heart.
Thanks, I might do that!
Honestly part of me is asking in case we go deeper and bans start getting handed out...
This is a great post.
Only just now getting caught up on all of this and I'm so sorry that this is happening.
Royalan WTF are you doing??
@ the rest of the mods, get you shit together and address this.
I feel like if you have time to lock threads you have time to explain what the fuck is going on
Fantastically said it rest highlights everything that has happened with a reasonable solutions. Any of these steps would be welcome and we can Foster our community further into a better one.
Not even a post explaining why it was locked like there always is in locked threads, eh?
Hoping that won't be the case, but if history repeats itself then being part of a good discord is probably worth it.
That being said, I'd like to remain here if possible but we definitely need some improvements and clarity.
This is a great post, and I think the suggestions would go a long way.
Or Twitter Handles!!!
@KadinPanti
Trans woman here. I haven't posted in a while because I'm super busy with work and NaNoWriMo, but I I come here on this of all weeks and see this garbage fire? Gross. Stay strong, trans friends. I love you.
Amen. How anyone with a heart could stand behind that frankly dehumanizing post is beyond me. Some folks just think they're allies.
Hey everyone, I'm part of the Mafia (the party game) community here on ERA; Ket would regularly play games with us and we're supporting her on this (many have posted here already).
In case you're ever interested in playing with us, or really just hanging out in our discord, a place where all are welcome, come on in (we barely talk about Mafia in the discord lol, it's just a place where us friends can be together and talk about whatever else):
In case you're ever interested in playing with us, or really just hanging out in our discord, a place where all are welcome, come on in (we barely talk about Mafia in the discord lol, it's just a place where us friends can be together and talk about whatever else):
Hidden content
It was the same behavior in the other place too
Love all types of people equally and fight for them like you would fight for yourself. I love you all and hope to see you remaining here to help bring light to your experiences.
I don't have twitter because it can be hot garbo sometimes, but I'll make note of yours and get into contact if needed
Modsadmins/staff, if you're reading this, PLEASE LISTEN TO NICOLE
Posting to show my support; don't know what else to say that hasn't already been said and more eloquently.
#standwithKetkat
#standwithKetkat
good post. it is truly maddening how every staff response so far has taken such an adversarial tone. ending these posts with variations on "this now a private matter not open for discussion" is so mind-bogglingly tone deaf, amplified only be how long it's taken between those responses.
It would be absolutely hilarious if my last post here were ACAB.
If trans era folks are looking for more community I can send links forward with PM. I'd rather keep the links relatively private in order to try to keep the site freer from targeted harassment. It's had issues in the past that have been pretty successfully dealt with
If trans era folks are looking for more community I can send links forward with PM. I'd rather keep the links relatively private in order to try to keep the site freer from targeted harassment. It's had issues in the past that have been pretty successfully dealt with
I don't have a lot to add, but I just want to say that I hope the decision on Ketkat is reversed and the staff listens to what has been said in this thread. It's distressing that so many in the trans community feel unwelcome and unsafe here.
I really hope the staff silence is because they are attempting to figure out how to do right by the trans community (Nicole's post is a great start). They deserve it.
I really hope the staff silence is because they are attempting to figure out how to do right by the trans community (Nicole's post is a great start). They deserve it.
Former mod here, and certainly no stranger to saying stupid shit, as pretty much all of y'all are well aware.
I've written about three dozen versions of this post and deleted them all because it's hard to formulate the right words. Rather than posting a huge essay, I'm just going to say that while I DO understand the challenges of moderating a site as large, diverse, and ever-changing as Era, I ALSO know that it's possible to make the wrong call sometimes.
Nicole has the right of it, from my point of view. I may not be a frequent presence in most TransEra threads, but I stand with you. It's so, so damn common to see people trivialize the struggles of the asexual community nowadays, and Era needs to be a place where ace members of the community can feel safe and not under the same kind of threat of erasure.
I've written about three dozen versions of this post and deleted them all because it's hard to formulate the right words. Rather than posting a huge essay, I'm just going to say that while I DO understand the challenges of moderating a site as large, diverse, and ever-changing as Era, I ALSO know that it's possible to make the wrong call sometimes.
Nicole has the right of it, from my point of view. I may not be a frequent presence in most TransEra threads, but I stand with you. It's so, so damn common to see people trivialize the struggles of the asexual community nowadays, and Era needs to be a place where ace members of the community can feel safe and not under the same kind of threat of erasure.
Who needs straight cis people when we ourselves would tear each other apart.
The mods need to give us answers about Royalan and unban those who have been banned unfairly. I also think the title of the thread should be changed.