This has been such an exposition event
https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPl...couraging_a_war_is_an_incitement_of_violence/ sub in question
their territory in Crimea. Some people really hate the Ukrainian people don't they?
This has been such an exposition event
https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPl...couraging_a_war_is_an_incitement_of_violence/ sub in question
This has been such an exposition event
https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPl...couraging_a_war_is_an_incitement_of_violence/ sub in question
This has been such an exposition event
https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPl...couraging_a_war_is_an_incitement_of_violence/ sub in question
Jesus fucking christ. That is insane. Literally insane. Has this person ever seen any actual news about this region?
This has been such an exposition event
https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPl...couraging_a_war_is_an_incitement_of_violence/ sub in question
The "America Bad" contingent never actually cared about other people's rights or imperialism.So many western leftists showing their assholes throughout this entire ordeal has been very eye opening...
Probably Russian news...
Jesus fucking christ. That is insane. Literally insane. Has this person ever seen any actual news about this region?
their territory in Crimea. Some people really hate the Ukrainian people don't they?
Jesus fucking christ. That is insane. Literally insane. Has this person ever seen any actual news about this region?
So many western leftists showing their assholes throughout this entire ordeal has been very eye opening...
Probably Russian news...
at least looking at that account, reddit has suspended that dipshit
This has been such an exposition event
https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPl...couraging_a_war_is_an_incitement_of_violence/ sub in question
A huge thanks to the genuine leftists on this sub for being supportive
So many western leftists showing their assholes throughout this entire ordeal has been very eye opening...
I miss none of them. Good riddance.Sounds like a few people that were on this forum (now permed, thank God).
To not strictly discuss the content of that post, but think on the logic therein which I feel leaves us in the position where we are on some people's perhaps unintuitive support for Russia/against Ukraine there's been with this latest standoff
Like, at this level, some people seem beyond even 'Ukraine should be continuing to engage diplomatically with Russia to de-escalate'; just arguing that support shouldn't be given to Ukraine, because this will trigger conflict, and thus must be averted. But why that would trigger conflict is either not confronted, or is flipped right on its head. To create the scenario that it doesn't really matter so much why a war would happen, and who fires the first shot, just that it happens, and so Ukraine is wrong to be preparing to defend itself against the possibility of such. It really wanted peace, it would do... nothing, apparently.
Interesting. Scottish young labour calling out young labour stance. . Interesting that not all progessiver/leftist groups are peddling Russian propaganda.
Russian leader Vladimir Putin is continuing the military buildup on the Ukrainian border in what looks like preparation for a major invasion, Biden administration officials said Monday.
Despite Russian officials' claims that military drills near Ukraine are winding down, White House and Pentagon officials said additional Russian troops and capabilities continue to move toward the Ukrainian border. White House deputy press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said Monday that new Russian forces are arriving "every day."
"Should [Putin] choose to invade again, he is doing all the things you would expect him to do to make sure he's ready for that option," Kirby said, meaning an invasion could happen "maybe even this week…with little to no warning."
Pentagon press secretary John Kirby said Moscow has moved additional military capabilities to the Ukrainian border over just the past 24 to 48 hours. Russia has about 130,000 troops surrounding Ukraine, including in Belarus to the North, Crimea to the South and near Donetsk to the West, according to the New York Times. Russian ships are also exercising nearby in the Black Sea, which prompted a formal protest from Ukraine's foreign ministry.
Amid the increased threat of violence, the U.S. is closing its embassy in Kyiv and temporarily moving all operations to Lviv, near the Polish border. On Saturday, the State Department announced it was evacuating most embassy personnel from Ukraine and ending routine consular services, and then moved a small contingent of personnel to Lviv to provide emergency services.
Yeah nobody has been able to make a good argument, that I have seen, on why Putin would take things this far and not actually go through with it. Especially since he isn't going to get anything out of it if he backs down and doing so with make him look weak.
Yeah nobody has been able to make a good argument, that I have seen, on why Putin would take things this far and not actually go through with it. Especially since he isn't going to get anything out of it if he backs down and doing so with make him look weak.
But I am 100% prepared and hoping to be wrong. Things are escalating quickly.
I was initially in the camp that Putin was creating this big bluff to increase tensions and get concessions (I believe that was his primary plan) but I think now we are at the point of no return and if Putin now takes a step back then he will look weak in his eyes.Yeah nobody has been able to make a good argument, that I have seen, on why Putin would take things this far and not actually go through with it. Especially since he isn't going to get anything out of it if he backs down and doing so with make him look weak.
But I am 100% prepared and hoping to be wrong. Things are escalating quickly.
That was my initial thought too, but I feel like in this day and age there's almost no way not to know.i guess my. remaining doubt is it's been SO telegraphed, to the point where we're literally discussing the specific day and time of this invasion, that surely just the public knowledge of it all has increased the risk to russian soldiers. how many deaths is he willing to accept?
That's where I stood. Part me still stands there but it's getting harder and harder to.I was initially in the camp that Putin was creating this big bluff to increase tensions and get concessions (I believe that was his primary plan) but I think now we are at the point of no return and if Putin now takes a step back then he will look weak in his eyes.
This is like that Iran US military bases meme, "Ukraine must want war. Look at how close they put their country to our military in three directions"Only Russia can put 150k troops, tanks, rockets, artillery, helicopters, jets, and munitions.....and still go "DON'T MAKE ME DEFEND MYSELF!"
This is like an abusive drunken spouse beating you but telling you they love you too much to stop.
I read that Russia may pass a bill that will declare Eastern Ukraine independent as stupid as it sounds and I guess they will move their military in that region which would probably set things off. A number of different scenarios could play out but it looks like they are looking for a pretext.That's where I stood. Part me still stands there but it's getting harder and harder to.
But I also find it hard to believe that Putin doesn't understand the realities of war. Like, you don't build up a mass army like this and take it to the border without realizing that before long things could snowball to the point that a war actually happens. That's why it is kind of hard for me to believe that he ever had some kind of master plan that has fallen through. He knew he was never going to get his NATO demands, he's not stupid. So again it comes down to, well then what was the plan, and also, why keep building up the army every passing day? He could have just stopped at a certain point and it would have had the same effect.
I read that Russia may pass a bill that will declare Eastern Ukraine independent as stupid as it sounds and I guess they will move their military in that region which would probably set things off. A number of different scenarios could play out but it looks like they are looking for a pretext.
If that were to be the case I think Russia would be ok with Eastern Ukraine as a buffer. I still believe Putin doesn't want to invade because it doesn't serve his countries best interests unless he's ok with hyper sanctions, isolation, lose standing in the world, embolden NATO/increased spending and expensive military operation from a country that's economy is not exactly flourishing.What if Ukraine says "ok, it's yours" to avoid a conflict? As unlikely as that is.
Then Russia invades anyway because if Ukraine officially cedes the occupied territories they'd be free to join the EU and NATO. That's why for the past 8 years it's always been a beyond stupid by some people to suggest that Ukraine should just cut their losses and cede the occupied territories.What if Ukraine says "ok, it's yours" to avoid a conflict? As unlikely as that is.
The "America Bad" contingent never actually cared about other people's rights or imperialism.
This entire event has shown how accurate my assessment was of them.
Speaking of tiktok and twitter. Something that I find a bit weird: we have so many videos of Russian military equipment moving to Ukrainian border, and yet there is no reaction to it from the Russian government. The issue is that there was at least 1 case (well, maybe more, but I only remember 1) where a woman was sent to prison for sending an SMS with information about Russia moving military equipment towards Georgia in 2008 (which Russian court considered to be an act of treason; iirc the SMS was sent to someone in Georgia).TikTok/Twitter etc home videos/Camera videos likely to be our peak into hostilities (How many western media have camera crews on the ground?. Will be difficult to get 'official' videos from that region. Citizen journalism/reporting will be crucial.
Is Russia seriously going to roll in, kill Ukrainians that get in their way, and just seize the country?
Yeah nobody has been able to make a good argument, that I have seen, on why Putin would take things this far and not actually go through with it. Especially since he isn't going to get anything out of it if he backs down and doing so with make him look weak.
But I am 100% prepared and hoping to be wrong. Things are escalating quickly.
Concessions gained from sabre-rattling would be considerably cheaper than obtaining or seizing the equivalent in war. If the main security demands are what the whole crisis hinges upon and are something that NATO won't compromise in or concede (currently the case), then Putin either has to de-escalate, find some other means/alternative valuable concessions or drop the demands, or else commit to a war of undetermined scope.At the session with Putin, Lavrov argued that Moscow should hold more talks with the U.S. and its allies despite their refusal to consider Russia's main security demands.
Moscow, which denies it has any plans to invade Ukraine, wants Western guarantees that NATO won't allow Ukraine and other former Soviet countries to join as members. It also wants the alliance to halt weapons deployments to Ukraine and roll back its forces from Eastern Europe — demands flatly rejected by the West.
The talks "can't go on indefinitely, but I would suggest to continue and expand them at this stage," Lavrov said, noting that Washington has offered to conduct dialogue on limits for missile deployments in Europe, restrictions on military drills and other confidence-building measures. Lavrov said possibilities for talks "are far from being exhausted."
His comments, at an appearance orchestrated for TV cameras, seemed designed to send a message to the world about Putin's own position: namely, that hopes for a diplomatic solution aren't yet dead.
Putin noted the West could try to draw Russia into "endless talks" and questioned whether there is still a chance to reach agreement. Lavrov replied that his ministry wouldn't allow the U.S. and its allies to stonewall Russia's main requests.
If that were to be the case I think Russia would be ok with Eastern Ukraine as a buffer. I still believe Putin doesn't want to invade because it doesn't serve his countries best interests unless he's ok with hyper sanctions, isolation, lose standing in the world, embolden NATO/increased spending and expensive military operation from a country that's economy is not exactly flourishing.
He kinda moved himself into a corner and is left with two pretty bad choices.He's awfully committed to a lie if he never was going through with this.
Then Russia will declare a "Ukrainian People's republic" that will invade Ukraine to "liberate it" from "banderite fascists", along with thousands of "Russian off-duty volunteers"What if Ukraine says "ok, it's yours" to avoid a conflict? As unlikely as that is.
He kinda moved himself into a corner and is left with two pretty bad choices.
Either he invades ukraine and has to deal with everything that comes with it or he doesn't and looks weak in front of his gangster friends.
I still think he thought he could bait the west into some pretty big concessions.
There is a non-zero possibility that they might try.Is Russia seriously going to roll in, kill Ukrainians that get in their way, and just seize the country?
Ala Hitler?
I'm not familiar with the region but in Syria for example, Russia supported Assad's regime against rebels by providing air cover and carpet bombingIs Russia seriously going to roll in, kill Ukrainians that get in their way, and just seize the country?
Ala Hitler?
What is the mood among Russian citizens about this in their mainland?
Is the whole country on board with this invasion? Are they keeping quiet out of fear? Any protests there? Or are they all-in on taking the Ukraine?
From what I've seen, few expect it or believe it will happen.
If it does happen there will almost certainly have to be some kind of major incident to act as a pretext.
It certainly wouldn't be the first time in history.