their territory in Crimea. Some people really hate the Ukrainian people don't they?
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Massive Russian military buildup near Ukraine
- Thread starter Forerunner
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their territory in Crimea. Some people really hate the Ukrainian people don't they?
Jesus fucking christ. That is insane. Literally insane. Has this person ever seen any actual news about this region?
So many western leftists showing their assholes throughout this entire ordeal has been very eye opening...
Probably Russian news...
at least looking at that account, reddit has suspended that dipshit
The "America Bad" contingent never actually cared about other people's rights or imperialism.
This entire event has shown how accurate my assessment was of them.
My guess is they follow a certain group of leftists that just speak about the Avoz Battalion and then just dips out. (Which we are pretty familiar here on ERA)
Not just reddit getting exposed either
The sub is banning and deleting everyone who disagrees
Holy shit, that statement's like a full house on tankie bingo.
staff post - stay on topic
Yup. Finally seeing some of the fruit of probably multiple intelligence operations. I mean some of our country's own politicians been forwarding. Wild -- but I guess that's war time.
To not strictly discuss the content of that post, but think on the logic therein which I feel leaves us in the position where we are on some people's perhaps unintuitive support for Russia/against Ukraine there's been with this latest standoff
Like, at this level, some people seem beyond even 'Ukraine should be continuing to engage diplomatically with Russia to de-escalate'; just arguing that support shouldn't be given to Ukraine, because this will trigger conflict, and thus must be averted. But why that would trigger conflict is either not confronted, or is flipped right on its head. To create the scenario that it doesn't really matter so much why a war would happen, and who fires the first shot, just that it happens, and so Ukraine is wrong to be preparing to defend itself against the possibility of such. It really wanted peace, it would do... nothing, apparently.
Like, at this level, some people seem beyond even 'Ukraine should be continuing to engage diplomatically with Russia to de-escalate'; just arguing that support shouldn't be given to Ukraine, because this will trigger conflict, and thus must be averted. But why that would trigger conflict is either not confronted, or is flipped right on its head. To create the scenario that it doesn't really matter so much why a war would happen, and who fires the first shot, just that it happens, and so Ukraine is wrong to be preparing to defend itself against the possibility of such. It really wanted peace, it would do... nothing, apparently.
For so many people, it would be so much more peaceful if Ukraine just.... didn't exist.
Clearly "Munich" was too subtle for them.
Or the same old "
Who gets to decide what the stance of "young labour" is?
OP
OP
Putin's Buildup Continues; NATO Peace Pleas Fail; Attack Now Possible ‘With Little to No Warning’
White House and Pentagon officials warn Russia could invade ‘this week;’ US embassy ordered empty.
www.defenseone.com
Yeah nobody has been able to make a good argument, that I have seen, on why Putin would take things this far and not actually go through with it. Especially since he isn't going to get anything out of it if he backs down and doing so with make him look weak.
But I am 100% prepared and hoping to be wrong. Things are escalating quickly.
i guess my. remaining doubt is it's been SO telegraphed, to the point where we're literally discussing the specific day and time of this invasion, that surely just the public knowledge of it all has increased the risk to russian soldiers. how many deaths is he willing to accept?
I was initially in the camp that Putin was creating this big bluff to increase tensions and get concessions (I believe that was his primary plan) but I think now we are at the point of no return and if Putin now takes a step back then he will look weak in his eyes.
That was my initial thought too, but I feel like in this day and age there's almost no way not to know.
TikTok/Twitter etc home videos/Camera videos likely to be our peak into hostilities (How many western media have camera crews on the ground?. Will be difficult to get 'official' videos from that region. Citizen journalism/reporting will be crucial.
That's where I stood. Part me still stands there but it's getting harder and harder to.
But I also find it hard to believe that Putin doesn't understand the realities of war. Like, you don't build up a mass army like this and take it to the border without realizing that before long things could snowball to the point that a war actually happens. That's why it is kind of hard for me to believe that he ever had some kind of master plan that has fallen through. He knew he was never going to get his NATO demands, he's not stupid. So again it comes down to, well then what was the plan, and also, why keep building up the army every passing day? He could have just stopped at a certain point and it would have had the same effect.
This is like that Iran US military bases meme, "Ukraine must want war. Look at how close they put their country to our military in three directions"
While I really do hope this does not escalate, it's increasingly clear how much people are being influenced by propaganda spewed in social media and mainstream press, into believing Russia would attack "in self-defense" or "to stop fascism" and that honestly makes me worried more than anything.
Honestly, Ukraine will likely never be part of NATO or the EU, but it should be their decision as a nation to try and pursue that goal, not for superpowers to say "you can't" and for everyone to go "well shit guys, I'm anti-war so fuck it I guess, let Russia do this, it'll be better than showing any opposition".
And for those leftists who truly have sunk into the idea that Russia is in the right "because it's not the West" and talking about how we've been conditioned to see them as bad guys, the answer is - THEN DON'T FUCKING ACT LIKE A BAD GUY. THAT'S ALL YOU HAVE TO DO FOR ME TO NOT CONSIDER YOU ONE.
Honestly, Ukraine will likely never be part of NATO or the EU, but it should be their decision as a nation to try and pursue that goal, not for superpowers to say "you can't" and for everyone to go "well shit guys, I'm anti-war so fuck it I guess, let Russia do this, it'll be better than showing any opposition".
And for those leftists who truly have sunk into the idea that Russia is in the right "because it's not the West" and talking about how we've been conditioned to see them as bad guys, the answer is - THEN DON'T FUCKING ACT LIKE A BAD GUY. THAT'S ALL YOU HAVE TO DO FOR ME TO NOT CONSIDER YOU ONE.
I read that Russia may pass a bill that will declare Eastern Ukraine independent as stupid as it sounds and I guess they will move their military in that region which would probably set things off. A number of different scenarios could play out but it looks like they are looking for a pretext.
What if Ukraine says "ok, it's yours" to avoid a conflict? As unlikely as that is.
If that were to be the case I think Russia would be ok with Eastern Ukraine as a buffer. I still believe Putin doesn't want to invade because it doesn't serve his countries best interests unless he's ok with hyper sanctions, isolation, lose standing in the world, embolden NATO/increased spending and expensive military operation from a country that's economy is not exactly flourishing.
Then Russia invades anyway because if Ukraine officially cedes the occupied territories they'd be free to join the EU and NATO. That's why for the past 8 years it's always been a beyond stupid by some people to suggest that Ukraine should just cut their losses and cede the occupied territories.
Is Russia seriously going to roll in, kill Ukrainians that get in their way, and just seize the country?
Ala Hitler?
Ala Hitler?
Yeah I always thought this was the case but never had any evidence.
We're seeing it now. It's wild.
Speaking of tiktok and twitter. Something that I find a bit weird: we have so many videos of Russian military equipment moving to Ukrainian border, and yet there is no reaction to it from the Russian government. The issue is that there was at least 1 case (well, maybe more, but I only remember 1) where a woman was sent to prison for sending an SMS with information about Russia moving military equipment towards Georgia in 2008 (which Russian court considered to be an act of treason; iirc the SMS was sent to someone in Georgia).
I wonder if we'll see similar accusations of treason in couple of years or Russian authorities are somehow ok with the videos being posted online. I doubt that the videos being posted online for everyone to see, instead of being sent directly to someone in Ukraine, makes a difference.
They have amassed a good majority of their entire full time army, so...YES?
Sliver of hope: Kremlin sees a diplomatic path on Ukraine
The Kremlin is signaling it is ready to keep talking with the West about security grievances that led to the current Ukraine crisis, offering hope that Russia might not invade its beleaguered neighbor within days as the U.S. and Europe increasingly fear.
apnews.com
Concessions gained from sabre-rattling would be considerably cheaper than obtaining or seizing the equivalent in war. If the main security demands are what the whole crisis hinges upon and are something that NATO won't compromise in or concede (currently the case), then Putin either has to de-escalate, find some other means/alternative valuable concessions or drop the demands, or else commit to a war of undetermined scope.
Given the tensity of the situation and how sensitive and proximate to hostilities the talks have now become, the only certainty in this instance is uncertainty. We can cop to that or we can make clowns of ourselves with panicked reading of the tea leaves like this:
Short of the order going out and the shooting beginning in earnest, Putin can postpone, de-escalate, or call it off, and the other participants in talks with his people aren't just passive onlookers. All is in flux.
And probably fortify that area for a bunch of years before chipping away at the border again, and repeat.
He kinda moved himself into a corner and is left with two pretty bad choices.
Either he invades ukraine and has to deal with everything that comes with it or he doesn't and looks weak in front of his gangster friends.
I still think he thought he could bait the west into some pretty big concessions.
Then Russia will declare a "Ukrainian People's republic" that will invade Ukraine to "liberate it" from "banderite fascists", along with thousands of "Russian off-duty volunteers"
We've been through this fucking song and dance in 1917.
There's loads of calls for a "finlandization" of Ukraine; sure it'd be a neat idea.
The problem is, Russia's promises are fucking worthless as far as Ukrainians are concerned. Russia signed a Friendship and Cooperation agreement in with Ukraine and demarcated the common border, with mutual respect for each other's territorial integrity.
And yet, Crimea and Donbas happened. No one is going to step in with guarantees against an aggressive nuclear power at this point.
It fucking sucks, but no one is going to take Russia to task for this (militarily) unless Ukrainians can do it themselves. Because Russians have this low-key imperial obsession with "brotherly" Ukraine that's still imprinted in their culture, and refuse to let it go. The abusive (ex) spouse metaphor is very apt here.
It's highly unlikely that Russia will agree to annex the rump 1/3 of Donbas that its puppets have salvaged nearly to the bone over the past 8 years. Their strategic objective is to force Ukraine to accept this "autonomous" region back on Russian conditions and to make multiple accommodations that would allow them to have a permanent instrument of influence within Ukraine.
I mean, Obama did fuck all back in 2014, so he probably thought Biden would be more of the same...
What is the mood among Russian citizens about this in their mainland?
Is the whole country on board with this invasion? Are they keeping quiet out of fear? Any protests there? Or are they all-in on taking the Ukraine?
Is the whole country on board with this invasion? Are they keeping quiet out of fear? Any protests there? Or are they all-in on taking the Ukraine?
I'm not familiar with the region but in Syria for example, Russia supported Assad's regime against rebels by providing air cover and carpet bombing
I think Ukraine will be the same (if it escalated), they will push for a civil war instead of Russian soldiers vs Ukrainians
From what I've seen, few expect it or believe it will happen.
If it does happen there will almost certainly have to be some kind of major incident to act as a pretext.
It certainly wouldn't be the first time in history.
I want the majority of the world to enter into a mutual defense pact like NATO and be committed to it. That's how world peace will be achieved (if we're actually serious about achieving it).
Imagine Russia joining and BS like what's happening now to Ukraine being an impossibility.
Imagine Russia joining and BS like what's happening now to Ukraine being an impossibility.
I had no idea Putin was deploying most of the Russian Ground Forces. This is going to be ugly.
Do Russian's in greater Russia care one way or the other if there's an invasion or not?
What is the pulse of that nation's citizens about this? Or are they just being fed lies all day long on state TV and accepting whatever Putin does?
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