god fanboys are ridiculous. The stuff people in the industry have to handle just because they are active on social media.
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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And the price point would likely only change if their overall strategy changed.
With Xcloud and X they might still try to tackle many different price points.
Though I don't see X hitting $300 any time soon not even by Holiday 2020
There is a user from here in that thread: "Ps5 cant be more powerful because it uses current gen amd zen 2 rdna and scarlett uses next gen zen 2 7nm+ rdna 2"
If PS5 was going to be priced more closely to lockhart than anaconda, but more close in performance to anaconda than lockhart it would be a problem for Microsoft.
The cancellation tell us that it may be a strong possibility.
I think people knowing many things will try to protect themselves and 6 to 9 months ago saying something would have been dangerous for Matt and his sources. Like I said someone in the industry told me the SSD on Sony side is the one inside the patent find by gofreak. He told me someone finds the custom Sony SSD because it was found when I show him and there was some public evidence that it was a custom technology but he never told me the speed like a true professional and probably never talk of it if gofreak did not find the patent. He asked me too if someone find into all the controller patent the DS5 and it is somewhere into all the Sony patents about the controller. There is so much patent, it is impossible to find.
As a dreamer, I bet the speed is 10 GB/s more reasonably it is probably 5 GB/s but a few days ago I read the patent before I only read the gofreak post and this is real speed in real game condition probably not theoretical speed. 5GB/s is very impressive too... Faster is the speed the more power you need for the second CPU and the hardware accelerator/decompressor and the cost goes up.
You have been on this thread as long as I have, probably longer and the battle lines we drawn with people picking sides as to who it was they wanted to win the power narrative.
When it comes to that information, he stated that Microsoft aimed to have a more powerful console. Brad Sams, very early on stated that the aim was to have a product that could compete with the upcoming PlayStation 5 on specs and price, not outshine it to oblivion. The conclusions that people came up with were their own, and within no time, names were being called left right and centre as to how these guys get it wrong.
I have been following what Thurrott reports for years, I have followed Klobrille since I found out Resetera existed, before I joined. For people that leak stuff either on this site or on mediums outside it, those two have got so much right that they do not have to prove themselves to anyone. The 2 SKU approach is also something that has been proven right by the way.
It is easily possible in term of hardware though. Why do you think you can run XB1 games on a 400gflops hardware at a lower graphical fidelity.
Nah man, I wasn't shitting on them.
It took me some time to figure out if a grain of salt is the right idiom for one, rather than a pinch.
It's about taking their word as gospel that irked me, because I know that they have gotten a lot of things right, there's still a chance they could get some of things wrong.
tldr; I'm annoyed with some of our members here rather than them.
They really shouldn't engage but it's probably hard to get dragged over dumb stuff on social media and say nothing. I want a strong XBOX next gen but I'm not about to shit on a messenger. People deserve respect even if they're reporting on something you don't want to hear.
I am not saying you were shitting on them. I am stating that that is something that has been happening here for some time despite their track record.
As for the controlled leak thing. I do not know where to start. I always say it is a probability thing that one has to reason on. What are the chances that Klobrille and hmqgg knew of a document that turned out to be true. That Leadbetter and Brad Sams knew about it, and that forum staff that are knowledgeable on the inside working of these companies found out too? Seems Microsoft has a leaking ship, and it does not end there when conferences can be leaked, acquisitions can be hinted at months in advance or simply leaked.
These companies have ways of finding out whether or not there is a business case for a product. Whether or not it is worth the trouble when talking to not only vendors, but users and consumers of their brand. They do not need to leak stuff to Twitter or Resetera to gauge where things are.
As for getting things wrong in the future, that is something that could happen, and that is why I always judge people on their track record. When it comes to the NBA, it is Adrian Wojnarowski and Shams Charania. When it comes to football it is reporters that do great work on individual clubs, or news outlets that cover them.......those that have proven themselves, and even on those there are different tiers. When it comes to Klobrille, hmqgg, Brad Sams, they have nothing to prove because they have done it over and over again.
But why deny now. He did say ps5–>Scarlett and now he does not?
Thats not what he's saying
The tweet Reiner is responding to is stating the idea that the PS5 would be stronger than the Scarlett is ridiculous, and Reiner is saying his position is the opposite of that (that PS5 is in fact stronger than Scarlett).
People riding Matt and ZhugeEX for not debunking the Lockheart stuff earlier are being a bit petulant, and should be looking closer to home.
I've been saying for the longest time in this thread that far too many are blindly accepting the rumour from their favourite leakers and rumour mongers as fact without giving it the proper scrutiny it deserves.
If you feel you were misled by a leaker, it's rarely the leaker's fault, moreso your own for not taking the info. with a grain of salt.
There's so much stuff discussed in this thread that people ardently treat as fact when it's nothing more than conjecture or some faceless twitter dude's speculation.
P.S. Statham calling anyone else a fanboy on twitter is the most delicious irony. Glad he was finally banned.
I've been saying for the longest time in this thread that far too many are blindly accepting the rumour from their favourite leakers and rumour mongers as fact without giving it the proper scrutiny it deserves.
If you feel you were misled by a leaker, it's rarely the leaker's fault, moreso your own for not taking the info. with a grain of salt.
There's so much stuff discussed in this thread that people ardently treat as fact when it's nothing more than conjecture or some faceless twitter dude's speculation.
P.S. Statham calling anyone else a fanboy on twitter is the most delicious irony. Glad he was finally banned.
But just yesterday you were saying that plans change is a good cop out for these insiders. Plans changed. Way too many were waiting for them to be wrong, and that does not seem to even be close to the case.
And the only people that have their names out are Brad Sams and Zhuge.
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I got to be honest, seeing people asking for an explanation for why Zhuge or Matt did not leaked the the end of Lockhart earlier is both funny and baffling.
I mean, why would they? Why would they put at risk those who gave them the information in the first place? Fot internet points?
I mean, why would they? Why would they put at risk those who gave them the information in the first place? Fot internet points?
Regardless, what if a developer wanted to target 1080p on Anaconda, and push the absolute most sophisticated CG-ish graphics possible that wouldn't be possible in 4K. It could only be done at 1080p on Anaconda (or {PS5) for whatever framerate they target. So then Lockhart would be fucked, or would have to run it in sub HD resolution, if at all.
Assuming Microsoft does not mandate 4K or even close to 4K for Scarlett games (there's no reason they would, they didn't with Scorpio), developers should be free to use Scarlett/Anaconda power for whatever they want. A blank canvas, just like they said devs were free to do with X1X.
Resolution scaling isnt everything. I doubt Lockhart would be suitable for doing whatever form of global illumination devs might want to make standard, I'm not even talking about ray tracing here. I mean like SVOGI for example, that Epic was showing in 2012 but had to be cut by 2013. because PS4/XBO weren't as powerful as they expected. There's probably a lot of things a 12 TF console could do that wouldn't be feasible on a 4TF console that just scaled resolution down.
People probably aren't thinking about it much past the fact that someone has information that they want. "If we are all so invested in this matter and you had the answer, why didn't you tell us?!" Maybe they don't really think about how sensitive that info is, not just to companies, but to people.
If everything else is equal, and even if it's not, I expect "most people" will stay with the ecosystem they already have? Giving Sony an edge out of the gate in most cases. A major fuck up like the Xbox one messaging at launch could change that, but I don't really see that coming.
As for games we should expect both Sony and MS will have something to show off the new hardware, but relying on third parties to do most of the heavy lifting at launch.
I mean Matt did say PS5 hardware RT in this thread, something that this thread was running in circles discussing. There's precedent for him ending a contentious point.
What I wonder is, will Sony also do a major cross-gen game at launch? Like, would they be willing to delay Ghost of Tsushima until then? Or is this what the supposed unannounced PS4 exclusive is for? Or maybe, the PS5 is getting a slightly earlier release in September or something, which could line right up with a natural GoT release date anyway.
And I'm sure they have way more information that they would love to know. And they will not leak it. Companies spend a lot of money and time to keep it secret, and they have options in place to act when someone leaks projects and breaks their NDA. And is no joke.
Here's a dev detailing porting a Dynamic 1080p game to Switch 720p.
A quarter of the GPU power to render ~50% of the pixels - versus the proposed one third GPU power to render 25% of the pixels.
If you read this, actual rendering changes were relatively trivial though he did half the frame rate(for a quarter the resolution this should not be necessary).
It was non-scaling physics running on the GPU(taking up 25% of GPU time) that presented the biggest challenge. With the CPU upgrades, not all next-gen games would have this physics load on the GPU.
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I think he just saying that his initial take was that Anaconda > next-gen PlayStation.
Oh, I know how it works. My response was pondering why those who wanted Matt to clean up a bad rumor would assume it was a given for him to do so.
Agreed.
Incidentally, that's why I'm not expecting both consoles to be identical. I think it's especially in Microsoft's interest for that to not happen, so I can see them trying to stake out the high ground and really double down on the Xbox being the gamer's game console. But now the rumor is that the PS5 is going to be more powerful, so who knows? We don't know much about these consoles yet, so I'm hesitant to draw any conclusions about positioning.
I think this would be a mistake. Third parties are never going to push a console more than the console maker does itself, and they're certainly not going to move on from current-gen hardware faster. I think both Sony and Microsoft are going to need big exclusives to spur demand. I don't think the market is as hungry for new consoles as it was in 2013; I'm not sure the current machines are showing their age in quite the same way and this time we had the mid-gen upgrades to satisfy a lot of that demand.
My god, those fanboys...
Btw, while I was reading this thread I thought in one thing: era needs a like-dislike feature on comments.
Mod or not, it's not an insider's job to leak stuff to save us from ourselves.
Another day - another battle
Now that we know that MS is going for 1 console - they probably gonna match (or be slightly more or less powerful) Sony on price and gpu performance.
Yet another reason to discuss what other HW solutions those companies can use to have an advantage
Now that we know that MS is going for 1 console - they probably gonna match (or be slightly more or less powerful) Sony on price and gpu performance.
Yet another reason to discuss what other HW solutions those companies can use to have an advantage
That feature creates nasty bandwagon effects and would disincentivise actual discussion. Best way it could be done is if the number of likes and dislikes on a post was invisible to all but the poster.
I feel that if Microsoft wants the better box, they'll get it. When it comes to spending power and resources, Sony doesn't necessarily strike me as being in a position to compete on these fronts. It's just a matter of how important power is to Xbox's leadership. By all accounts? Very much so. Both boxes are going to be fantastic, but I expect Xbox to have most bells and whistles. See you all next year.
Well that kills my excitement a little. After the One X I was very much looking forward to see what MS would do when they go "all out" since that box would be made for the true enthusiasts and could easily be priced 500.
If they are dialing back on the power now, well... shit.
Looking at some comments here and other sites you'd think the consoles have been finalized already and nothing can change anymore. But it indeed is still early days, we are 1,5 years away from its launch too. But I'm just gonna set my expectations accordingly and take into account that PS5 could indeed be more powerful, whether a significant power difference remains to be seen. Wouldn't be a good look for Xbox if so. And as someone who prefers Xbox I wouldn't like it either.
Yes, the biggest and most profitable console manufacturer doesn't have enough money.
Two different posts saying two different not-inconsistent things to two different sets of people.
I know you're favourite hobby is building strawmen, but this time it didn't work for you.
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EDIT: Nevermind, this was already posted as a comment on that reddit post, and might not be related to PlayStation at all.
Remember that reddit post with two pictures from an alleged PS5 event?
Found the location:
Radisson Blu Edwardian, Heathrow
First pic is from the atrium, second pic is from one of the conference rooms:
So it seems like this was an European event, possibly for European developers. According to the Exif data it took place on April 17th, 2019. Maybe this helps to gather more info about that event.
Edit: The first picture is also pretty high res, might be possible to ID some of the persons attending, if they are from European dev studios only? (To get confirmation if this is PlayStation related)
Found the location:
Radisson Blu Edwardian, Heathrow
First pic is from the atrium, second pic is from one of the conference rooms:
So it seems like this was an European event, possibly for European developers. According to the Exif data it took place on April 17th, 2019. Maybe this helps to gather more info about that event.
Edit: The first picture is also pretty high res, might be possible to ID some of the persons attending, if they are from European dev studios only? (To get confirmation if this is PlayStation related)
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This is an odd take.
If Microsoft has the better box, it's because they're able and willing to push the Xbox brand upmarket as a premium product for the most demanding users, while Sony more or less has to go for volume as the market leader. It doesn't have anything to do with Sony not being able to afford the good parts from AMD, or anything.
I'm in the minority where I actually believe Xbox might be a bit more powerful than PS5. What I do doubt though is any meaningful power difference similar to X vs Pro.
If both machines target similar price points it ends up becoming a game of tweaks.
Bear in mind, none of this is confirmed. It's better to just take it as pure speculation.
I've got a crazy theory on why Lockheart was canceled.
* Tinfoil hat on *
Lockheart makes a lot of sense. If we look at the steam hardware survey a year before the PS4, in 2012 only 17.7% of PC gamers had a 720p monitor while 25.6% of PC gamers had a 1080p monitor; a lot of people had 1080p TVs and in general, everyone was super excited for the consoles to get to 1080p and finally match the PC gamers who've been gaming at 1080p for years. But in 2019, according to the latest Steam survey, only 1.6% are gaming on a 4K monitor (another 4.7% in 1440p) while a whopping 62.5% are still gaming on a 1080p monitor. Today most content isn't available in 4K, even huge cultural phenomenon like the MCU movies are mostly unavailable in 4K. In short, the world is much less excited to go 4K compared to 2012 and 1080p. Even right here in this thread, where the core of the core is posting, we see a lot of pushback to the idea of going native 4K. Yeah, we still want 1440p + reconstruction to 4K but we are the hardcore of the hardcore and we don't care much about native 4K, so does the layman even care about 4K at all?
After considering all that, a Lockheart console makes a lot of sense. If Microsoft had a 1080p console that runs the same games and they mostly look the same only in 1080p instead of 4K for 300$, that could be one hell of a deal for a very large group of customers that would have never bought a 500$ Anaconda or PS5. Customers will have a choice, the more casuals (which makes most of the gaming community) will buy Lockheart while the core who wants the best hardware around will buy the 500$ Anaconda. So why cancel Lockheart? Why invest millions in R&D and throw away such a great idea (I know that a lot of users her oppose this idea but they will probably agree that at least financially it's a great idea)?
Well, that's where my crazy theory comes in. What if Microsoft, by the Cerny interview or from stories from developers, had realized that Sony is aiming at a 499$ console. What if Microsoft had realized that the PS5 is more powerful than the Anaconda just like the rumblings during E3? That will make the Anaconda kind of miss its' point to be the crazy high-end console for the gamer who has to have the most powerful machine around. Silicon is already set in stone, memory setup and bus are already set in stone; they can't do much except add a few GB of memory and clock the GPU or CPU a bit higher and who knows if that's enough. So how about using Microsoft's biggest weapon, money? What if they've decided to price the Anaconda at 399$? It will undermine the whole idea of Sony having the more powerful console at the same price, if they are 100$ less while being a bit weaker, Scarlett really makes sense. Thing is, it will make the Lockheart make no sense any more, after all, why do they need a 300$ console if they have a 400$ console that is already PS5-grade (even if it's 10%-20% weaker)? So they've killed Lockheart, they might have the weaker console but they also have the 100$ cheaper console with Halo and probably Forza 8 ready for launch day.
I know what you are thinking, why not just price the Lockheart at 250$ or 200$ so they can get that casual crowd too? They can't. With a 500$ and 300$ strategy, they probably lost very little money on both SKUs, at least they probably took a pretty small hit on the Lockheart because it's aimed at the more casual audience. If they cut the Anaconda to 400$, they will lose extra 100$ on each console but these customers are core enough to make it back 10 folds. As we saw in the Sony presentation, year one adopters of a 400$ console will spend 1600$ in the console's lifespan which makes losing extra 100$ on launch day not that bad if it means getting a good starting user base for the console. But the casuals who will buy Lockheart? Not so much, they spend much less than 700$ (the 700$ figure includes the early adopters that spend 1600$ so a casual probably spends a lot less) and losing extra 100$ isn't worth it. So Lockheart at 300$ and Anaconda at 400$ doesn't make much sense. Anaconda alone at 400$ while PS5 is sold for 500$? That makes a lot more sense, striking a balance between power and price is the name of the game.
* Tinfoil hat off *
* Tinfoil hat on *
Lockheart makes a lot of sense. If we look at the steam hardware survey a year before the PS4, in 2012 only 17.7% of PC gamers had a 720p monitor while 25.6% of PC gamers had a 1080p monitor; a lot of people had 1080p TVs and in general, everyone was super excited for the consoles to get to 1080p and finally match the PC gamers who've been gaming at 1080p for years. But in 2019, according to the latest Steam survey, only 1.6% are gaming on a 4K monitor (another 4.7% in 1440p) while a whopping 62.5% are still gaming on a 1080p monitor. Today most content isn't available in 4K, even huge cultural phenomenon like the MCU movies are mostly unavailable in 4K. In short, the world is much less excited to go 4K compared to 2012 and 1080p. Even right here in this thread, where the core of the core is posting, we see a lot of pushback to the idea of going native 4K. Yeah, we still want 1440p + reconstruction to 4K but we are the hardcore of the hardcore and we don't care much about native 4K, so does the layman even care about 4K at all?
After considering all that, a Lockheart console makes a lot of sense. If Microsoft had a 1080p console that runs the same games and they mostly look the same only in 1080p instead of 4K for 300$, that could be one hell of a deal for a very large group of customers that would have never bought a 500$ Anaconda or PS5. Customers will have a choice, the more casuals (which makes most of the gaming community) will buy Lockheart while the core who wants the best hardware around will buy the 500$ Anaconda. So why cancel Lockheart? Why invest millions in R&D and throw away such a great idea (I know that a lot of users her oppose this idea but they will probably agree that at least financially it's a great idea)?
Well, that's where my crazy theory comes in. What if Microsoft, by the Cerny interview or from stories from developers, had realized that Sony is aiming at a 499$ console. What if Microsoft had realized that the PS5 is more powerful than the Anaconda just like the rumblings during E3? That will make the Anaconda kind of miss its' point to be the crazy high-end console for the gamer who has to have the most powerful machine around. Silicon is already set in stone, memory setup and bus are already set in stone; they can't do much except add a few GB of memory and clock the GPU or CPU a bit higher and who knows if that's enough. So how about using Microsoft's biggest weapon, money? What if they've decided to price the Anaconda at 399$? It will undermine the whole idea of Sony having the more powerful console at the same price, if they are 100$ less while being a bit weaker, Scarlett really makes sense. Thing is, it will make the Lockheart make no sense any more, after all, why do they need a 300$ console if they have a 400$ console that is already PS5-grade (even if it's 10%-20% weaker)? So they've killed Lockheart, they might have the weaker console but they also have the 100$ cheaper console with Halo and probably Forza 8 ready for launch day.
I know what you are thinking, why not just price the Lockheart at 250$ or 200$ so they can get that casual crowd too? They can't. With a 500$ and 300$ strategy, they probably lost very little money on both SKUs, at least they probably took a pretty small hit on the Lockheart because it's aimed at the more casual audience. If they cut the Anaconda to 400$, they will lose extra 100$ on each console but these customers are core enough to make it back 10 folds. As we saw in the Sony presentation, year one adopters of a 400$ console will spend 1600$ in the console's lifespan which makes losing extra 100$ on launch day not that bad if it means getting a good starting user base for the console. But the casuals who will buy Lockheart? Not so much, they spend much less than 700$ (the 700$ figure includes the early adopters that spend 1600$ so a casual probably spends a lot less) and losing extra 100$ isn't worth it. So Lockheart at 300$ and Anaconda at 400$ doesn't make much sense. Anaconda alone at 400$ while PS5 is sold for 500$? That makes a lot more sense, striking a balance between power and price is the name of the game.
* Tinfoil hat off *
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Thank you for finding this, I've been looking for months for where those pictures were taken.Remember that reddit post with two pictures from an alleged PS5 event?
Found the location:
Radisson Blu Edwardian, Heathrow
First pic is from the atrium, second pic is from one of the conference rooms:
So it seems like this was an European event, possibly for European developers. According to the Exif data it took place on April 17th, 2019. Maybe this helps to gather more info about that event.
Remember that reddit post with two pictures from an alleged PS5 event?
Found the location:
Radisson Blu Edwardian, Heathrow
First pic is from the atrium, second pic is from one of the conference rooms:
So it seems like this was an European event, possibly for European developers. According to the Exif data it took place on April 17th, 2019. Maybe this helps to gather more info about that event.
Edit: The first picture is also pretty high res, might be possible to ID some of the persons attending, if they are from European dev studios only?
Nice detective work! :)
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Remember that reddit post with two pictures from an alleged PS5 event?
Found the location:
Radisson Blu Edwardian, Heathrow
First pic is from the atrium, second pic is from one of the conference rooms:
So it seems like this was an European event, possibly for European developers. According to the Exif data it took place on April 17th, 2019. Maybe this helps to gather more info about that event.
Edit: The first picture is also pretty high res, might be possible to ID some of the persons attending, if they are from European dev studios only? To get confirmation if this is PlayStation related.
Why Sony and not Sony Interactive entertainement on the photo? I think this is a really good fake.
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