PS4 is selling like hot cakes at this point. Sony should wring every last drop out of it, before announcing a PS5.
I assume MilesQ is OnQ123. So intersect should be Jeff Rigby. Just a guess from the recent comments those members made.Wow, vfxveteran...that's a name I haven't seen in a while...
So is Intersect jeff_rigby or OnQ123?
it would be so sad if literally every new game was either a sequel or a game based off of a movie.
Did he ever resolve the bet withJaseC btw?
I'm sure he would have but he somehow got banned right around that time iirc, which was really... unfortunate. :/
Console chip size limitations has more to do with their costs than sizes. Using HBM in place of EDRAM is unlikely to be cheaper.
This is only the case when you're "reticle" limited i.e. the production process itself doesn't allow to make the base die bigger and thus you can make it faster by going with multiple chips instead (like GV100 for example which is both a record sized GPU die which is fit onto _two_ interposer dies with each nesting _two_ "packs" of HBM2 each consisting of _four_ DRAM dies; so it's really a system made of 19 separate dies). For a console sized GPU though opting for HBM instead of EDRAM in the same size likely won't provide many benefits as the yields advantage of having several smaller chips instead of a one big APU with EDRAM on it will likely be eaten up by the costs of the interposer (which is also a chip) and the packaging process.My point was that in a given silicon budget, e.g 350mm² of APU, having ED/SRAM on die means less space for the GPU/CPU.
This is only the case when you're "reticle" limited i.e. the production process itself doesn't allow to make the base die bigger...
...and thus you can make it faster by going with multiple chips instead (like GV100 for example which is both a record sized GPU die which is fit onto _two_ interposer dies with each nesting _two_ "packs" of HBM2 each consisting of _four_ DRAM dies; so it's really a system made of 19 separate dies).For a console sized GPU though opting for HBM instead of EDRAM in the same size likely won't provide many benefits as the yields advantage of having several smaller chips instead of a one big APU with EDRAM on it will likely be eaten up by the costs of the interposer (which is also a chip) and the packaging process.
Fitting for the forthcoming Thanksgiving holiday here in the US, we've got a lot to digest with our first look at AMD Ryzen Mobile platform. So, let's break down the main course and various side dishes. First, the AMD Ryzen 5 2500U quad-core mobile processor we tested generally offered competitive performance to Intel's latest 8th Gen quad-core Kaby Lake-R offering in various, highly-refined and optimized machines like the Dell XPS 13 and the HP Spectre x360. Presumably, a Ryzen 7 2700U would look even better in a similar match-up, with a bit more top-end clock speed.
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Looking at Ryzen Mobile's graphics prowess, as we hoped, the platform offers significantly better performance with its Vega 8 IGP in comparison to Intel's latest UHD 620 IGP in the 8th Gen Core series line-up. In some tests it offered 60 - 70 percent faster frame rates and was able to make unplayable titles playable at 1080p. Granted our short window for testing was mostly relegated to some light-duty, legacy game titles, but as an aside, we also quickly tested current gen games like Middle Earth: Shadow of War. Here we saw playable frame rates at 1080p with Low to Medium image quality settings.
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Ultimately, it will come down to what AMD's OEM partners like HP, Lenovo, Acer, and Dell can pull together for laptop designs with Ryzen Mobile. It would seem the product lends itself very well to premium configurations, if battery life can be managed in thin and light designs
PS4 is selling like hot cakes at this point. Sony should wring every last drop out of it, before announcing a PS5.
hothardware has a Ryzen Mobile (raven ridge) benchmark & performance analysis online.
I still think that Sony might just slap two Ryzen Mobile's together and crank up the specs (higher clock, way more CUs) and add some newer Zen2 / Navi features; it would be make for an affordable option. They did pretty much the same with the Jaguars.
The PS5 won't cannibalise the PS4, it will sell to different consumers.
This here, is the key.Even if it did cannibalize, it's not a bad thing; it's always better you're the one make these sales, rather than your competitors. That's doubly true now that such a large part of the revenue comes from the ecosystem - keeping your customers within that ecosystem is paramount.
By the way, I was being facetious with the PS5² thing :D doubt they'll release 2 SKUs simultaneously, was just playing on the whole 25th anniversary thing.
PS5 is too far off if they ain't launching next year for such a setup, in that case they won't need to ducktape stuff together :P
That's 2+ years away, they aren't going to decide on those key components this early IMO.if they want to launch in 2020 and have a custom APU; hardwarespecs will need to be finalised soon. There is nothing wrong with using Raven Ridge as a starting point; it worked out fine with Jaguar. Plus side is that the cpu's are much better compared to previous gen.
And also remember that retail release != actual hardware is ready as far as these APUs are concerned. AMD and its partners work on customizing their chips way ahead of time.That's 2+ years away, they aren't going to decide on those key components this early IMO.
It wouldn't make sense either, you're still going to have a Ryzen refresh, then Zen2 then Zen 2 refresh before the thing is out (and if lucky Zen 3).
Manufacturing started around June 2013 I believe as there were reports about TSMC ramping it up (kinda drunk ATM I don't remember the details).And also remember that retail release != actual hardware is ready as far as these APUs are concerned. AMD and its partners work on customizing their chips way ahead of time.
Even if it did cannibalize, it's not a bad thing; it's always better you're the one to make these sales, rather than your competitors. That's doubly true now that such a large part of the revenue comes from the ecosystem - keeping your customers within that ecosystem is paramount.
That's 2+ years away, they aren't going to decide on those key components this early IMO.
It wouldn't make sense either, you're still going to have a Ryzen refresh, then Zen2 then Zen 2 refresh before the thing is out (and if lucky Zen 3).
If I'm not mistaken, doesn't AMD's roadmap have Zen2 for 2019? That would mean custom chips for clients would already be available.Manufacturing started around June 2013 I believe as there were reports about TSMC ramping it up (kinda drunk ATM I don't remember the details).
Everything and anything is possible, I'm just saying that IMO with so many movement on the CPU side of things I don't see them settling for Ryzen (1).
Sure it's great if we're coming off Jaguar but who's to say we won't feel the same after Zen2/3 hits, given that it's the same line of CPU and architecture I don't see why they'd settle for Zen 1 ATM.
GPU is a different story, VEGA ain't the way to go, it's not great nor efficient IMHO.
- If they want to use Zen 2 they'll need to go down to 7nm, which production isnt planned for late 2018 (early 2019 makes more sense).
Why? Most logical thing to assume is that they'll continue on the path that they started with PS4. If they stay with AMD and use a custom APU like they did with Jaguar/Radeon, it will be based on current mobile technology (like Raven Ridge) but will be enriched with newer features where possible and things will get cranked up because of the higher TDP.
- Raven Ridge is a 2018 platform (in general).
- First devkits for PS4 arrived late 2011/early 2012. If the PS5 launches in 2020; it's fair to assume that devkits will be shipped in 2018/early 2019.
- If they want to use Zen 2 they'll need to go down to 7nm, which production isnt planned for late 2018 (early 2019 makes more sense).
- If they use a custom APU it will probably need to be taped out in 2019 to make it to production in 2020.
A 7nm AMD Custom APU (8 core Zen or maybe Zen 2), and a whole bunch of Vega/Navi CUs, < $450. Sounds sensible to me.
Why? Most logical thing to assume is that they'll continue on the path that they started with PS4. If they stay with AMD and use a custom APU like they did with Jaguar/Radeon, it will be based on current mobile technology (like Raven Ridge) but will be enriched with newer features where possible and things will get cranked up because of the higher TDP.
- Raven Ridge is a 2018 platform (in general).
- First devkits for PS4 arrived late 2011/early 2012. If the PS5 launches in 2020; it's fair to assume that devkits will be shipped in 2018/early 2019.
- If they want to use Zen 2 they'll need to go down to 7nm, which production isnt planned for late 2018 (early 2019 makes more sense).
- If they use a custom APU it will probably need to be taped out in 2019 to make it to production in 2020.
A 7nm AMD Custom APU (8 core Zen or maybe Zen 2), and a whole bunch of Vega/Navi CUs, < $450. Sounds sensible to me.
That's why I think they want to launch by November 2019 and target a $400 price point although they're obviously rather dependent on AMD. Retention is so important now. I think 6 year generations is probably the sweet spot for all involved.
Old roadmap not much movement though according to Lisa Su they got a lot of people working Zen in tandem so Zen 2/3 IIRC so it should be on track as per Zen 1.If I'm not mistaken, doesn't AMD's roadmap have Zen2 for 2019? That would mean custom chips for clients would already be available.
PlayStation Meeting 2020 in February:
- PS5 reveal: specs, design, UI, DualShock 5
- Games
. Cross Gen/Ports:
- Final Fantasy VII Remake by Square Enix announced for PS5 (extensive gameplay demo is shown, PS4/PS5 cross gen)
- Death Stranding by Kojima Productions announced for PS5 (native 4K/60fps gameplay is shown, PS4/PS5 cross gen)
- The Last of Us Part II by Naughty Dog announced for PS5 (alongside first footage of its standalone DLC ala Left Behind, but bigger in ambition - think Uncharted The Lost Legacy - which will be included in the PS5 version)
. Next gen only:
- Gran Turismo 7 by Polyphony Digital announced (back to SP focus, gameplay footage is shown as a tech demonstration of the console's capabilities)
- Ratchet and Clank 2 by Insomniac Games (full fledget AAA sequel for 2016's Ratchet and Clank, it will look just like the CG movie from last year but in-game bitches!)
- Warner's Harry Potter Open World RPG shows up (first glimpse at gameplay is shown running on PS5)
- Destiny 3 by Bungie is announced (native 4k/60fps extensive demo is shown running on PS5)
- Bloodborne 2 by From Software announced (gameplay trailer is shown breaking ResetEra forever)
- Horizon 2 by Guerrila Games announced (gameplay demo is shown as the ultimate next gen graphics showcase, this will be the game that will make people think "Holy shit next gen is real!")
And then...
E3 2020, Sony Press Conference:
- PS5 launching at $499 (they will only go this route because NextBox will be $499 too) in September 2020
. In regards to the already announced games of PlayStation Meeting:
- Destiny 3 (coming at launch)
- Ratchet and Clank 2 (coming at launch)
- The Last of Us Part II (coming at launch - both the DLC for PS4 and complete edition aka base game + DLC for PS5)
- Death Stranding (coming at launch)
- Final Fantasy VII Remake (coming in november, which will be the japanese PS5 launch)
- Horizon 2 (coming early 2021)
- Bloodborne 2 (coming 2021)
- Harry Potter RPG (coming 2021)
- Gran Turismo 7 (coming 2021)
+ the usual suspects for the holiday period or launch (Assassins Creed, COD, FIFA, NBA, Madden, etc)
. New announcements:
- Japan Studio Toriyama's new IP announced (action adventure open world, coming 2021)
- Dark Cloud 3 by Level-5 is announced (Japan Studio collaboration)
- New God of War teaser
It's the same one I've been looking at since the beginning of the year, along with "next-gen memory" for the GPU after Navi.
It's the same one I've been looking at since the beginning of the year, along with "next-gen memory" for the GPU after Navi.
True that, my thoughts are all over the place.But 'nextgen memory' starts with Navi. Shouldn't be confused with the Next Gen GPU on 7nm+ for 2020 and beyond.
If retail Zen2 is 2019, we can be sure that Zen2 would definitely be ready as custom APU for clients like Sony and MS.You guys might be right, Zen roadmap has shifted quite a lot it was supposed to debut sometime next year with the refresh earlier in the year.
As far as I know this is either for Apple or HP: https://www.barrons.com/articles/am...nother-semi-custom-project-in-2018-1501022700
Slightly less enthusiastic if it turns out to be Zen 1 + Vega.
Zen 2: https://hothardware.com/news/leaked-amd-roadmap-zen-2-matisse-12nm-finfet-cpu-2019
Even if PS5 is released November 2019, the Raven Ridge APU should not be anything to go by, just as AMD's first high performance APU in 2011 (Llano which used STARS CPU and their old graphics arch, before GCN) was not a good indication of what PS4 would be like. Even the Bobcat & Jaguar APUs didn't indicate PS4's performance.
At the time in 2013, PS4 used the biggest APU AMD had made in terms of logic. Xbox One APU had more transistors because of the SRAM, but a smaller GPU.
The Gray Hawk APU is the one to watch PS5's CPU/GPU architecture should be very similar, although core counts, compute units and clock speeds will almost certainly be different (more & higher).
That's the shitty part, things were on track and going smoothly then I read that and am like WTF.If retail Zen2 is 2019, we can be sure that Zen2 would definitely be ready as custom APU for clients like Sony and MS.
New gen? Lol. Generations are over.
Mass production is planned for early 2018 or mid depending on which fab it is.
Vega/Navi CU's? features from the next architecture doesn't imply the core itself but the improvements rather and those can be anything.
Agree completely. Ecosystem lock-in is probably the single most important aspect of this generation transition, so I can see Sony going not only for BC, but also supporting legacy controllers (we'll probably see a refreshed DualShock, but I believe the PS5 will support the DS4) and the current PSVR.
Old roadmap not much movement though according to Lisa Su they got a lot of people working Zen in tandem so Zen 2/3 IIRC so it should be on track as per Zen 1.
You guys might be right, Zen roadmap has shifted quite a lot it was supposed to debut sometime next year with the refresh earlier in the year.
As far as I know this is either for Apple or HP: https://www.barrons.com/articles/am...nother-semi-custom-project-in-2018-1501022700
Slightly less enthusiastic if it turns out to be Zen 1 + Vega.
Zen 2: https://hothardware.com/news/leaked-amd-roadmap-zen-2-matisse-12nm-finfet-cpu-2019
Best guess is the same disk format BD-XL defined in 2010 but with HDCP 2.2 encryption between drive and TEE over the USB or SATA bus. More than 4 layers is also possible with a firmware update for future 8K disks but drive speed will have to move up from 6X which now supports UHD +HDR and Depthmap for 3D (Depthmap requires 50% less space than the HD frame packed 3D which took 100% more space..Since physical isn't going away so soon should it have a BD-XL 128GB drive or is there another physical format coming in the near future to replace it?
Switch will be the only console in its own generation, as it is now, and Nintendo will develop stronger switch's in the future. Mind you, X and PS4Pro are still a generation behind Switch. And the cycle will continue, since iterative console development is now the new trend.If they approach PS5 from that angle I think they'll be onto a winner.
Mark Cerny and Phil Spencer disagree with you.