PS5 and Xbox Series speculation launch thread |OT9| - For flops sake!
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Originally planned for both Mac and Windows (or I would never of known about it ;o)) ;
It's crazy to me that people were willing to talk about next gen in such depth so early on. That sounds like torture to me.
Yes, that's true, All temporal algorithms are better at higher frame-rates. Temporal algorithms assume that the previous frame is pretty similar to the current frame so they can use the previous frame data in order to enrich the new frame with new pixel information. The higher the frame-rate, the smaller the interval between frames, which means smaller differences between consecutive frames, resulting in fewer artifacts and higher image quality.
That's why I assume developers will rather do reconstructed 4K at 60FPS over native 4K at 30FPS, especially with that new CPU.
Underrated suggestion.
Well well well...
It's only lead to arguments about when OT9 should officially end, what qualifies as a true OT10 post, and questions raised about when people initially began wirting their posts.
I watched this yesterday. It's truly impressive how it allowed them ot quickly iterate in order to produce the game world, with all that in place and further engine advances over time (incuding those made to help present DS) it should mean the total dev time for a sequel could be shorter rather than longer than we might expect.Here's an excellent video from Guerrilla Games about how they used the GPU to dynamically place all the objects in the world of Horizon Zero Dawn.
GPU-Based Run-Time Procedural Placement in Horizon: Zero Dawn
In this 2017 GDC session, Guerrilla Games' Jaap van Muijden describes the GPU-based procedural placement system that dynamically creates the world of Horizon...www.youtube.com
This allowed them to have much more freedom with designing the big chunks of the world (ie mountains, streams etc) as they didn't need to run some form of baking process to add the trees/rock/other 'dressing' elements - much faster iteration for the designers.
What is interesting to me is that this is what shipped - the GPU places the objects in the world as the player moves around - instead of having a static world that is defined ahead of time - obviously there's some serious programming chops going on to get it to fit into the frametimes they were after.
The big thing I took away from it was just how easy it is to drastically and dynamically alter the game world with just a tiny bit of number tweaking. The possibilities here for alternate realities/dimensions/etc. in other games, leveraging SSD to stream in assets in the moment rather than some forced transition, are pretty incredible.
Double Fine was having financial troubles for a while so them getting bought and them being able to keep making what they want was a plus. Same goes for Ninja Theory, they made a budget game because they couldn't divert all the funds to make such a game while they were making Bleeding Edge.
Insomniac has been independent for the longest time, their most successful IP was with Sony. And it was second to Ratchet and Clank on PS4. It made sense for them to keep making the games they want to have a big publisher who can support them for anything they make including VR.
This, unfortunately, is a bad habit of mine, I call all reconstruction checkerboarding lol.
But yeah, I believe image reconstruction is ultimately the way to go with next-gen.
Agree with this. It would be great if studios remain independent and release games for a number of platforms, but if the studio is struggling financially, surly it's better for them to be purchased by Sony, MS etc rather than collapsing and causing the complete loss of a studio.
I'm always a fan of new and better stuff but like most new things just coming out of R&D/ the 'Tomorrows World' phase, you can add at least 2-3 years before it is in reasonably priced consumer products like a console (if it makes sense at all).
I must admit though that the complete silence/secrecy about the PS5 RAM setup has me intrigued. So when it turns out to be 'regular' GDDR6 I'll be a little disappointed.
This is off topic but EA was free to sniff around the license all they wanted for years and did nothing with it. What leverage does MLB have on sony when it was never a exclusive license?
Yeah I think TI is way better than CB, as used in Spider-Man, Ratchet and SotC Remake.
Personally I think it just needs to be up to the developer to decide. I love native 4k so much (as a 2080Ti owner) but as far as consoles are concerned it makes sense to use reconstruction where necessary, especially as we move through the generation and developers become more ambitious.
The strange thing is if it was GDDR6 and nothing to shout from the rooftops about then why haven't Sony come out and said it? Microsoft have and it's kind of expected that GDDR6 would be the natural progression for next gen consoles anyway, which keeps me hoping that it will be something like HBM, given that Sony have placed and emphasis on load speed etc maybe this is their secret sauce?
I have the sleep schedule of a degenerate, gonna be even worse when the PS meeting happens lol.
2k was the one who had the exclusive 3rd party license, but that ended more than 6-7 years ago. If MVP baseball was coming back, it would have happened a long time ago.
It isn't that Sony haven't mentioned it that surprises me. It is that no insider has dared touch on it that gives me pause...
That is my absolute dream, for all games to aim for reconstructed 4K60 from the off, and for enhanced BC games to get reconstructed 4K120 (or an unlocked framerate that goes up to 120fps, with the option of a 60fps cap). Unfortunately, I'm not even remotely sure if it will happen, or if we'll get native 4K30 instead.
Hell, maybe we'll get reconstructed 4K30 + MEGA GRAPHICS (and more artifacts). Completely avoid any resolution/framerate increase from the Pro and put it all into moar bigger visuals.
Exactly. It's odd seeing people act like MLB was willing to pull the license from a well recieved sports game and risk having no MLB game on the market. Whatever the deal was, it made sense for Sony, so it moved forward.
It's possible that the memory setup isn't known by many outside of the main architect team. Much like how the 8GB upgrade last time around was hidden until the last minute.
The specs I'm most interested in learning more about:
- PS5 SSD technology - the fact that Klee's dev friend became nervous when the topic was mentioned suggests it's really quite special and you could tell Todd Howard was excited by something SSD related
- PS5 ram - history suggests something a little out of the ordinary as Sony have a habit of using different ram setups (rambus etc) so I'm all aboard the HBM train but I would guess it would be 1 pool rather than split ram as has been suggested
It's like Microsoft is waiting for Sony and Sony is waiting for Microsoft.
If there's going to be a big reveal, they also need to know themselves they can hit that date with trailers, announcements and of course the tech specs.
If we get to the end of the month without a PSM, then it won't happen in February, at least early Feb.
If there's going to be a big reveal, they also need to know themselves they can hit that date with trailers, announcements and of course the tech specs.
If we get to the end of the month without a PSM, then it won't happen in February, at least early Feb.
PS6 speculation next gen OT will be fun with arguing "will it have HBM3 or ReRAM?!?" ;)
1. |OT Decimo| MechaTen Schrödinger's Speculazione
2. |OT 10| The Mecha of all Schrödinger's speculation
2. |OT 10| The Mecha of all Schrödinger's speculation
I'm just hoping for smaller day 1 patches since everybody has 100GB discs and no need to replicate data at the non-volatile level.
It's largely immaterial to the consumer. They've focused on features that are new and exciting. The memory is merely an enabler.
you'll always have 30fps so let's hope for both - 4K/30 reconstruction for graphics mode; 4K/60 reconstruction unlocked with VRR support for performance mode
I'm actually pretty confident that we will see a lot of reconstructed 4K @60 fps this coming generation. 60fps makes reconstruction look nicer and the new CPU just begs developers for that higher frame-rates. And that's before we factor in the advantages of 60fps for gameplay, lag and response time.
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This is what we should be celebrating.
Tech making game development better. Didn't wanna say easier but still.
With games getting close to 100GB on current game assets, even after saving 20% of the install size because of no data duplication, I think we are going to see day-one patches getting even bigger. I mean, how much can you really cram into a 93GB BR disc when you have huge textures, 10 times more detailed models and asset diversity that comes with the new SSD streaming abilities?
OT 10| Sony pictures present - Inside Job
OT 10| Di(a)gression: The ERA tales out of my ass.
OT10| What year is it? 2013/2020
OT 10| Di(a)gression: The ERA tales out of my ass.
OT10| What year is it? 2013/2020
Your implication that we were not already crazy is amusing.
Won't we be well past HBM3 by then? We could be on HBM5 or something.
That is all very logical and I agree that it would be best. But then I think about how hard the visuals could be pushed at reconstructed 4K30 and how the reconstruction artifacts could be well-hidden in bullshots and compressed youtube videos. They may very well decide that that would be the most easily-marketed form the game could take. Fingers crossed I'm being a worrywart.
Nah.HBM2 production started in Jan. 2016 ,4 years ago, and we are speculating if PS5 might have it in late 2020.
I'm sure we will see anything and everything. This gen we got 720p, 900p and 1080p games, we got reconstructed 720p to 1080p games, we've got checkerboarding to 4K, we got 1440p, native 4K, half 4K reconstructed to 4K, half 1800p reconstructed to 1800p, etc. So yeah, to all of your option I say "yes", all of them will appear in games next generation :)
Oh, and I've just noticed that there is a user called 60fps, that guy must be getting tagged by accident all the time :D
I have a hexacore CPU with a 1080ti in my gaming rig. I'd classify that as "decent enough". Bringing my gaming PC up to the rumored next-gen console spec though, even discounting console optimizations and assuming a higher-end retail cost of $599, would cost a hell of a lot more and would probably deliver a worse experience. If having an XBSX let's me skip a PC upgrade cycle and upgrade down the road either cheaper or with even more performance, it seems worth it.
I'll probably get both, eventually. I won't make the decision on which console when until more information is out there. I will say that I really have no driving need to play every game at its launch, so I probably won't buy a console at launch time just to play a couple of exclusives. Price/performance and platform features will be equally important selling points for me.
Multiplayer launch shortcuts in the launcher!
Ok, your post made me go back and read the summary by gofreak. That patent sounds very nice.
Nooooo! And you trying to to bring back HBM???
You just wanna see the world burn.
Still confident about HBM!?
^ DS has reported for duty ;)
It makes little sense to me to omit stating in dev docs what type of RAM the system uses. Especially if it turns out to be GDDR6.
I don't doubt from Sony's point of view this is true. Like I say insiders have quite freely talked about TF's/power and RAM amount range along with other stuff but none have mentioned RAM type for PS5 even though over the last few next-gen threads it keeps being asked about. Maybe they just never thought to ask/find out about such a mundane thing?
And you guys are onto the same thing I am. Its expected, almost a requirement that next-gen consoles use GDDR6. Sony doesn't have to give an amount, but I see nothing wrong or special about them just coming out and saying "we use GDDR6".
The silence is deafenng in this case.
But everyone at least knew that there was going to b GDDR5 last time around. The amount is what is not known. This time around, everyone pretty much expects at least GDDR6. MS has even announced that they are using it. What "type" of RAM you are using isn't something that would be hidden but instead, you choose to talk about a custom SSD type o PU and type of GPU.
The only reason I can see them being so tight-lipped about the RAM "type", is because it's not GDDR6. If it were, then its just kinda silly that alongside other more notable announcements they have already made, eg CPU, GPU types, custom SSD and RT hardware support... they would hold back something as mundane as "using GDDR6 RAM".
This is one of those times (like with the TF number) that their unwillingness to share that information makes it more important than whatever they have shared. Albeit that could be for good or bad reasons, but more important none the less.
Who knows, it made little sense to hide that you had an additional 4GB of memory last time around as well.
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