Yup. Completely. It's not even about buying games on Steam, it's about being able to buy a game at different stores. When only one store sells the product, that allows the store to control the price of the product completely. Steam having discounts is a completely different matter from any store being able to sell games which use Steamworks because publishers and developers can generate keys and provide them to any retailer.
It's difficult because the key system is open to abuse and grey market keys can be a frustration for devs where the value of their game gets severely undercut but I don't agree with Epic completely shutting it down. There has to be a better solutionThanks for the response guys, this is making a lot more sense now. The key generation system is really confusing but im getting a handle on it.
Okay. I think that sucks and they still need to work on the regional pricing and making sure those discounts are reflected across regions. I can get it for cheaper, but I guess I can't say anything positive or talk about a positive experience, since only negativity counts or is valid when it comes to Epic.
Yeah, and often through grey market retailers like CDKeys. But it wasn't only US region that had the price lowered. Like I said, when Epic introduced regional pricing for regions that hadn't had it anymore, it lowered the cost of the game.
Sorry, you expect every storefront to launch with the same full features set as Steam that Valve had more than a decade to build? I think that's a very strange expectation and I dispute the idea that every new product is expected to have the exact same feature set as a competing product that has had decades to develop its features
No, I said that to act like the price rose and the feature set got worse in all cases isn't true. If you want to find a place where I said they had the same feature set as Valve, I'm looking forward you producing the quotation.
You're not just cherrypicking, you're even throwing in student discounts as if that's a valid or fair way to measure pricing. It doesn't exactly defend against the idea that you're going out of your way to cherrypick examples that make Epic look bad on pricing.
In some cases and I've happily acknowledged they have a ways to go. But you won't even acknowledge the cases where people are paying less for the same game because that doesn't fit with your 'Epic is the root of all evil' narrative
You're the only one spouting blanket statements. I'm acknowledging that the experience is variable across regions and storefronts while you are trying to act like your region's pricing (and even your student discount!) is an option for everyone.
Sure, I think the lack of cloud saves is ridiculous.Valve had a decade to build their features because they were in relatively uncharted territory and were often even at the forefront of the inventions of those features. So the argument that anyone needs to be allowed to play catch up rings hollow. Some things make sense, lacking things like a search bar or cloud saves do not.
Maybe not a great example, since the Switch has launched lacking a huge number of features that its two rival platforms have but it's often defended as offering a core gaming experience without all those other features. I don't agree but I'm willing to give Nintendo time to build its new online service. I think they're stretching people's patience with that, though, and by this point most people seem to have accepted they aren't going to support even basic features like voice chat or usernames and I see that lack of features defended all the timeLike, if Google announces their gaming hardware, they are not going to be judged by Xbox 360 standards, they are going to be correctly judged by PS4/Xbox One / Switch standards.
I'm not sure you understand the "grey market" at all. The developers do not lose any money on sites like GMG or CD Keys. The store that sells it takes a hit on their cut.It's difficult because the key system is open to abuse and grey market keys can be a frustration for devs where the value of their game gets severely undercut but I don't agree with Epic completely shutting it down. There has to be a better solution
Yeah, and often through grey market retailers like CDKeys. But it wasn't only US region that had the price lowered. Like I said, when Epic introduced regional pricing for regions that hadn't had it anymore, it lowered the cost of the game.
This is what I remember from how dev frustration looked like in the past so I don't quite believe everyone here when they are saying the devs are getting their cut regardless.It's difficult because the key system is open to abuse and grey market keys can be a frustration for devs where the value of their game gets severely undercut but I don't agree with Epic completely shutting it down. There has to be a better solution
I don't think you understand the grey market at all if you're calling authorized retailers like GMG who are absolutely not grey market part of the grey marketI'm not sure you understand the "grey market" at all. The developers do not lose any money on sites like GMG or CD Keys. The store that sells it takes a hit on their cut.
You're right, no one uses CDKeys, G2A or Kinguin. My not realizing that just shows that I'm a fake PC gamer. You really got me goodNo, through officially licensed resellers such as voidu and GMG that directly work with the publishers. I would suggest you to inform yourself about the economical realities of the pc gaming space as despite your claims of being a pc gamer, you clearly don't know anything about it.
May I ask how exactly Epic's brand of competition is good for customers?
I wonder what would happen to stores like GMG, Fanatical etc if Valve lowered the revenue split to 15/85 for everyone.
We already have one casualty, the fair price guarantee feature on GOG. This actively worsened deal for us, customers. Thanks Epic.
I'll summarize it for you:Thanks for the response guys, this is making a lot more sense now. The key generation system is really confusing but im getting a handle on it.
The competition is thata their sore offers games, that others are not.So why are they taking a big bag of money to not sell their game on competing storefronts?
Is there any evidence of that?, so when Tim Sweeney comes out and says that 7-8% is enough for running store (and that is blatant lie) they believe him and start to demand for unreasonable things.
You're right, no one uses CDKeys, G2A or Kinguin. My not realizing that just shows that I'm a fake PC gamer. You really got me good
It's now one store instead of 30. That's a lot less choice.How are there less choices? Its on the PC, you can buy it on your PC.
What needs to change about the EGS to match up with the other store fronts? Because it seems like Epic has to rather aggressive just to exist as joining the status quo along with EA and Ubi looks like just losing to Valve and Steam.
I'm sure you would know better than I, oh revered and enlightened PC gamer. I am but a fake fan
No, of course they do. Yes, discounts are sometimes available through legitimate resellers. But often the discounts people get on PC are through grey market sites like CDKeys and I stand by that. The discounts offered on CDKeys are often posted on this forum and many people take advantage of those offers. Doesn't mean I don't understand the difference between an authorized reseller like GMG and grey market like CDKeys/Kinguin.CDkeys and Kinguin have fucking nothing to do with the discounts i have been talking about and were entirely brought up by you because you don't know about the difference between the official, licensed reseller i'm talking about and the grey market you are thinking about.
If your level of argument are these sort of petty insults and tedious needless aggression, then I don't think I'm missing out on much.If that's your Level of having an argument, good fucking riddance, stay ignorant.
The competition is thata their sore offers games, that others are not.
This thread devolved like any other Epic store related one. Next people are gonna complain that a Ford dealership doesn't offer Mercedes.
Any citations on that? I have no idea, but you should provide something to back that up.But often the discounts people get on PC are through grey market sites like CDKeys and I stand by that.
Sure.Any citations on that? I have no idea, but you should provide something to back that up.
I come to these threads just to read through the ridiculous salt.The competition is thata their sore offers games, that others are not.
This thread devolved like any other Epic store related one. Next people are gonna complain that a Ford dealership doesn't offer Mercedes.
I have zero fear that like, I can love Steam and your love for one platform doesn't need to come at the exclusion of another. So I like seeing more places to play games out there, and see how different perspectives on it pan out.
You gave two examples of games sold on Cdkeys?
Q: What are the revenue splits?
A: After deductions for payment processor fees (typically around 5%), the net revenue is split 95% to the developer, and 5% to Humble Bundle. VAT is deducted where applicable.
I'm sure you would know better than I, oh revered and enlightened PC gamer. I am but a fake fan
No, of course they do.
Yes, discounts are sometimes available through legitimate resellers. But often the discounts people get on PC are through grey market sites like CDKeys and I stand by that. The discounts offered on CDKeys are often posted on this forum and many people take advantage of those offers. Doesn't mean I don't understand the difference between an authorized reseller like GMG and grey market like CDKeys/Kinguin.
If your level of argument are these sort of petty insults and tedious needless aggression, then I don't think I'm missing out on much.
Sorry, what more evidence do you want that many people buy discounted games from CDKeys? The discounts are often posted on this forum and people take advantage of them. I could trawl through dozens of Reddit posts too, if you really want, but that would be pretty tedious
You referred to "20-25€ discounts PCgamers are used to receive for every Major AAA title." I pointed out that level of discounting often comes from sources on the grey market and it's absolutely not available through authorized retailers for "every major AAA title." You didn't specify only discounts available through legitimate retailers.These fucking Grey market resellers have fucking nothing to do with the Discounts i'm talking about.
Literally how hard is this for you to understand?
Okay? And other price comparison sites list gray market deals. What is your point?I would suggest you to look up isthereanydeal.com which only lists official, licensed sellers.
It's a fair point and I should point out that I'm not necessarily against the premise of people being able to resell keys. If you have a game key that you don't want, it's probably fair that an eBay style service exists for you to sell it to someone who wants it. The problem is the level of abuse and stolen credit card keys, etc. that is very hard to track down. Still, abusing regional pricing to get cheap games for people in other countries isn't exactly nobleCDKeys buys physical copies of games (which Valve takes 0% of) from retailers in cheaper regions and sells the keys. Kinguin however is not as legit and actually features stolen keys and other shit that should not be allowed.
No, it's not competition. Real competition would be Epic providing a storefront that actually provides legitimate value that other storefronts don't have. Instead, the Epic Store is basically a bare-bones launcher with a friends list.
I wouldn't normally go into 'lazy devs' territory, but when a whole bunch of useful features that shouldn't be unreasonable for Epic to implement at launch (especially cloud saves) are completely absent and Epic initially implies they aren't interested in adding more features, well, that just makes Epic look like a bunch of lazy assholes.
You referred to "20-25€ discounts PCgamers are used to receive for every Major AAA title." I pointed out that level of discounting often comes from sources on the grey market and it's absolutely not available through authorized retailers for "every major AAA title." You didn't specify only discounts available through legitimate retailers.
Still, abusing regional pricing to get cheap games for people in other countries isn't exactly noble
Wasn't Civ V only a Steam exclusive for a digital deluxe edition? You could still buy the game at retail and from any online store selling keys. Can you do the same for Hades?
Publishers (companies in general) take advantage of regional economic realities as well.It'ill, abusing regional pricing to get cheap games for people in other countries isn't exactly noble
Sure, I'm not disputing thatPublishers (companies in general) take advantage of regional economic realities as well.
This is what I remember from how dev frustration looked like in the past so I don't quite believe everyone here when they are saying the devs are getting their cut regardless.