I liked The Mountain Between Us. Pretty sure I heard Broson crying his eyes out when the ~romance~ blossomed.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Wkd Box Office - 11•10-12•17 - US audiences weigh in: Viking Gods Rule. Murder is OK. Dads > Moms.
- Thread starter kswiston
- Start date
- Status
Im arguing the opposite. I think what Marvel has done is unprecedented, and they deserve a ton of credit, I just don't think that's the only way to have success. Wonder Woman is proof of that.
But who was the man who hired Snyder?
Damnit leave Nolan out of this, he is innocent!
Snyder was 5th in line.
Went to see Orient Express instead of Justice League because my girl won't let me support these films anymore. Didn't regret it. Hope it's successful enough so he gets to do sequels.
The conversation probably went something like:
"Chris should we hire Zack Snyder to head up the DC movie universe?"
"Yeah, sure, whatever"
It speaks to the point I made though, that you legitimately asked 'how is Ant Man connected to the MCU' when it's steeped in the MCU setting and history. MCU films gets contextualized to audiences as a part of the larger world, and are very interconnected even if a film is more stand alone.
That's not what I would describe as "steeped" or "very interconnected" though. There isn't much actual continuity there. Ant Man could have been someone's first ever Marvel movie and they likely still would have enjoyed it, and a cameo here or a reference there isn't going to break that experience for them. Like I said, I think it does add some value and Marvel deserves credit for that, but it wasn't what made that movie a success.
Wasn't this movie projected to have a $150-160M opening in the US just a week or two ago? $325+M opening worldwide?
The Tomatometer's influence over general audiences has become that powerful?
The Tomatometer's influence over general audiences has become that powerful?
I like Marvel super heroes appear interact with each other movies. Like I cant wait to see Guardians meet Tony next year.
I love wonder woman but she team up with Batman and other dont feel anything special or like an comic event for me as with heroes in MCU.
I love wonder woman but she team up with Batman and other dont feel anything special or like an comic event for me as with heroes in MCU.
No, it was projected for $110M DOM. Which most people assume would go up 10-20 million as we approached release, not the other way around.
Seeing Batman vs Superman had more influence over the general audience than rotten tomatoes.
Pretty sure it was being "lowballed" (oof) at $110 million for like a month now.
It should be if Branagh wants to do more and with the tease at the end I would assume so. It's already at $110M world wide on a budget of $55M.
Also I was wondering if we might see a near 70% drop for Justice League next week. Given the meh to bad WoM and Coco opening next week it could get ugly.
JL may fail but I don't get the "because of Coco" narrative. Only knew about Coco because of this thread.
I'd generally agree with Scooter. Yes, the interconnected nature helps, but making good to great films first and foremost is what matters.
The real strength of the Marvel brand is trust. When the general audience sees that Marvel logo, they can be assured that they'll at least be entertained. Sure, the films don't always mine the deepest themes. Some are clearly better than others. But if someone is putting down their $10-15 then trust helps a ton. Trust in Batman and Superman as icons drove BvS to that record opening weekend.
That said, I do think they'll replace Affleck and Cavill. Affleck because BvS and Justice League didn't do all that well and his offscreen situations aren't great. Easier to recast and give Reeves a fresh start. Likewise, the next Superman film is late 2020 at best. WB is probably looking at that and wondering if it's not better to start fresh there as well.
Wonder Woman and Aquaman are safe. I think Flash might get by. Cyborg is probably going to be shoved into someone else's film.
It's similar to Deadline positing that Wonder is eating into JL's business this week. Films get a certain amount of walk-up business—families that just come to the theater to watch something. When face with a Justice League film that they perhaps associate with the darker Batman v Superman, families are more apt to choose something like Wonder, or in a week, Coco.
The real strength of the Marvel brand is trust. When the general audience sees that Marvel logo, they can be assured that they'll at least be entertained. Sure, the films don't always mine the deepest themes. Some are clearly better than others. But if someone is putting down their $10-15 then trust helps a ton. Trust in Batman and Superman as icons drove BvS to that record opening weekend.
That said, I do think they'll replace Affleck and Cavill. Affleck because BvS and Justice League didn't do all that well and his offscreen situations aren't great. Easier to recast and give Reeves a fresh start. Likewise, the next Superman film is late 2020 at best. WB is probably looking at that and wondering if it's not better to start fresh there as well.
Wonder Woman and Aquaman are safe. I think Flash might get by. Cyborg is probably going to be shoved into someone else's film.
It's similar to Deadline positing that Wonder is eating into JL's business this week. Films get a certain amount of walk-up business—families that just come to the theater to watch something. When face with a Justice League film that they perhaps associate with the darker Batman v Superman, families are more apt to choose something like Wonder, or in a week, Coco.
It's the only way to have a consistent success. Show me how DC or Fox or fucking anyone is going to get to 12 straight movies with 500$ mill worldwide outside of Feige's method. And the streak isn't over yet. By next year Marvel should hit 15 straight.
Its not just the Avengers 200 mill OW money these companies are looking for. They want that consistent "every single movie is a hit" money. And they can't get there because they don't have the right talent in charge.
I mean DC's going five for five with films that'll top 600 million at the box office.
Heres to hoping.
We'll probably continue to get stuff like Logan and Deadpool thats off to the side and more experimental but thankfully, I think thanks to Snyder, this will be the last time we see the overly moody and drab take on mainline hero films (by directors that seem to despise traditional superhero heroism and colorfulness) anytime soon.
They won't get to 12. The brand is in the toilet outside of WW.
Going further, they have 0 movies that have hit a billion. Marvel has 4. And Marvel has two more over 800 million. And two more over 700 million.
Beyond Marvel, Disney runs Lucasfilm the same way. A strong producer in charge of a consistent vision. Boom. Huge success(with hiccups, I'll grant you, but it's working).
There's two unimpeachable examples of why you need a strong producer acting as showrunner for these universes. It's how you build the brand and maintain quality across the years.
Letting directors "do their thing" will get you inconsistent product. Some highs, a lot of lows, and no brand loyalty.
Eh, Snyder being gone forever and maybe fire some producers will make the movies better.
Aquaman cast is amazing btw. I'd like DC movies to be not connected or very loosely connected from here on out. When they have solid footing, they can do team ups.
Aquaman cast is amazing btw. I'd like DC movies to be not connected or very loosely connected from here on out. When they have solid footing, they can do team ups.
Man, I'm legit shocked that this is happening. A part of me expected it to not reach the heights as OW BvS, but never in a million years did I think under 100 mil was a possibility.
It depends on the directors. If someone better than Snyder had been chosen to helm this thing, i dont think we'd be having this conversation.
If theyre going to give directors a couple hundred million to do their thing, they should make sure those directors are worthy of that kind of trust.
The conversation probably went something like:
"Chris should we hire Zack Snyder to head up the DC movie universe?"
"Yeah, sure, whatever"
He is a busy man. Ain't got time for this crap.
I saw Orient Express too. Really good movie with ace cinematography and performances. Glad I saw it.
I don't think Cavill would be replaced unless he leaves, just to save face. I do think he's on Hulk schedule now (JL movies and team ups and cameos) because I honestly don't think anyone at the studio has any faith or any IDEA of what another solo Superman movie would be about. Like, you already killed the dude and resurrected him.
Affleck is well...y'know.
Affleck is well...y'know.
We fundamentally disagree. The films are not one or the other.
The whole reason you even think that the Ant Man wasn't continuity heavy is because they present the material in a way that educates a first time viewer while getting them in on further developments when they see the next movie (like how AntMan ends teasing Avengers shenanigans and we see him in Civil War).
While some films are more steeped than others, they are all connected by how viewers can instantly contextualize them as a part of the larger world they inhabit. The films are also getting MORE steeped as we move forward as Marvel wants to frequently use more 'buddy' setups between heroes.
- MCU references were used in marketing, pre-release material, and press tour
- Ant Man is based around a subplot of SHIELD building of of ties to Captain America
- AntMan was a government project that took place during the fight against Hydra in WW1
- References the AVENGERS and SHIELD throughout the film
- Has an entire action sequence because Hank mistakenly assumes that an old Howard Stark (Captain America, SHIELD, IRON MAN 2, Agent Carter) compound would be uninhabited. It is now an Avengers compound where AntMan fights Falcon.
- Hydra is at the end of the film
- Ends the film with Falcon teasing Avengers Shenanigans
- Falcon (Avengers, Avengers 2 and Peggy), Agent Carter (Captain America, Agent Carter TV show, Agents of Shield) are in the film. Falcon in a noted Capacity that is the tease for AntMan moving forward.
You're saying that Ant Man isn't continuity heavy because:
Your logic simply doesn't work because a film can be both accessible to a new viewer and dripping in MCU continuity.
Elements referenced within the MCU are mostly contextualized for the new viewer inside the film. How the films are sold to the public are based on knowledge of the MCU as a whole and how the character fits into it. Peter Parkers marketing leveraged your knowledge of the MCU to sell the concept of Peter being an up and comer by simply showing it to you. Ant Man was able to be sold so easily to viewers because all they had to do was say 'he's a thief in the MCU' and people understood what that meant.
This works because the MCU is trusted and understood by the vast majority of viewers. They both work as their own experiences AND reinforce one another by being interconnected.
If their films were just their own things then it wouldn't be an inter connected universe where Marvel could have sold Guardians of the Galaxy so well.
The MCU is now something like a 15 Billion dollar franchise. Don't focus on 'good marketing' for why MCU films succeed, because plenty of films have good marketing and fail. The MCU brand makes marketing EASY. Following a template that is consistently understood and liked by Audiences also makes the move making process easier for them. Focus on how people would have laughed in your face if you'd told them 10 years ago that Ant Man was going to be a feature film, one that audiences bought into at that.
The film itself isn't really anything special, it wasn't terribly well made or anything. It was well liked and made $519,311,965 worldwide.
The MCU brand has become successful because the films have worked, but that isn't why Avengers was a smash hit that sent ripples throughout the industry. Marvel can now basically make any film they want in the MCU and provided they are generally well made, they will be a success.
The DCEU is a teetering on the edge of life support because the films suck and the foundation set by Snyder is limiting and unappealing to movie goers. You either make more clean breaks, or do a the soft reboot like First Class which hamstrings characters that come directly out of Justice League like their horrible Aquaman.
Everyone is saying that the solution fixing the DCEU is to 'just keep going and make good movies' but WB has show that they have a difficult time doing that to begin with and adhering to the Snyder Verse is going to be an impediment.
You could do a campy Shazam film in Marvel much easier than you could do one adhering to the DCEU because while the MCU can be considered a little bland, it is versatile. Snyder-Verse is very distinct which is a problem for the property. 'Oh put people like the actors' only goes so far when they've been in consistently underwhelming films playing that character.
We both agree, play fast and loose, but at that point you're pretty much ignoring the DCEU anyway. It's going to be really hard to both adhere to the DCEU while also reinventing your property enough to get away from the stink of it. WW was a prequel, and is big enough to get away with it going into WW2, but what about a title like Aquaman. Their biggest tent-pole characters are damaged save Wonder Woman.
Last edited:
Just got out of Justice League and I actually liked it quite a bit. Tons of issues still but I thought it was waaaaaay better than BvS. And the way it ends males me hopeful for the future of DCU in terms of plot / characters.
Now I'm a bit bummed out it's cratering so hard
Now I'm a bit bummed out it's cratering so hard
Put Supes with Shazam and Black Adam. Also would work well in a Wonder Woman movie, Patty could do great things with Superman and their dynamic.
Yikes just checking the early estimates, sub 100m opening? What a disaster. Seems like WW success could not get people past the failures of Suicide Squad and BvS, wrong either JL's own bad RT score. It's going to take some fantastic solo films to start digging out of this ditch now. Maybe Flashpoint can reboot a few things as well.
I think most people went to see WW for other reasons than it being a part of the DCCU.
I agree with the bolded. I think WB should just focus on Matt Reeves Batman, Wonder Woman 2, and Flashpoint (If they want to reset some choices and change actors like Batman)
I don't see Flashpoint happening at all
I mean, that movie would be a follow-up of sorts to JL, which will probably end up as the largest financial failure in the DCEU.
Just focus on solo flicks. WW2, Batman, Shazam, Aqua, then try the team thing again five years from now.
I mean, that movie would be a follow-up of sorts to JL, which will probably end up as the largest financial failure in the DCEU.
Just focus on solo flicks. WW2, Batman, Shazam, Aqua, then try the team thing again five years from now.
OP
OP
We'll almost certainly get an estimate late tonight. This story holds way too many clicks for Deadline and others to wait until official estimates.
Look at the length of this thread. We're going to hit close to or over 2k posts and this isn't even Justice League's weekend thread. The same thing applies to the rest of the internet right now.
Look at the length of this thread. We're going to hit close to or over 2k posts and this isn't even Justice League's weekend thread. The same thing applies to the rest of the internet right now.
Not only that but Marvel is able to do this with B and C tiers characters.
Which then make there other IP bigger and bigger .
DC has there top IP and things still going down .
The world loves watching a train wreck. Well, not paying money to see a train wreck, obviously. But we love discussing it.
They sould sell the Trinity to Valiant.
And then they would have not other choice than to nail the Legion of Superheroes Cinematic Universe.
The conversation probably went something like:
"Chris should we hire Zack Snyder to head up the DC movie universe?"
"Yeah, sure, whatever"
Sometimes I have to be reminded Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back is a real movie.
- Status