Anybody who voted for Trump should be completely written off, and anybody's campaign who appeals to them is bad by association. I'm very smart.
2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT2 | Warren's college tuition plan includes cancelling college debt
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The thing is that you don't need Bernie to do that. They switched back just fine in 2018, which is why the swings in PA/MI were so gigantic. (WI is gonna be Florida North going forward.)
You're right that I don't think you need Bernie for that, but I don't think its the case that "they'll switch back just fine" with just any candidate. I think Biden would probably be the best for that. But like there are pros and cons to a Biden nomination.
I never said to ignore them. I was just making fun of the messaging portraying Sanders as the Chosen One to convert them from evil with the power of his words.
The reason it works with any candidate is because Trump ran as a Le Pen style European populist (econ left social right) and governed as a Paul Ryan (both right). He lied his ass off and is now paying the price for that electorally.
If Trump voters want to be decent people, let them make the first step. Apologizing or painting them as victims of a con is dumb. Trump's racism is front and center, that is who his voters are.
He's not campaigning for them specifically, or compromising his vision. Someone who is chummy to lobbyists or big money will not appeal to this type of voter.
Just important to keep in mind when thinking about electibility.
what does that even mean? i bet that guy sucks and will continue to suck even if he does vote for bernie, but who the fuck cares? if we write off every voter with awful views we'll lose every election down to the school boards.
Good. I know he's taken a break this week for his father's memorial but excited for him to get back on the trail.
What precisely is Biden offering someone in the mid west like that caller though?
Yeah, and I wouldn't see why that'd appealing vs Trump, who is that uncut shit.
Biden is the white supremacist pick for when you're white supremacist but also #nevertrump.
So how are we supposed to be a coalition to stand up against the GOP then?
And you're not discouraging that activity. You should care since every vote counts in getting Trump and the GOP out of office. That's how it works.
True, but would you honestly view Trump as the lesser evil with those choices? We'd be getting President Biden or President Trump, regardless of how we feel if Biden wins the nomination.
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Which is everyone with a NYT opinion column and Virginia's suburbs but not many in the Mid west I would guess.
Ah the old tactic of doing something badly so they'll never ask you to do it again. Respect
Bernard is just replacing one useless egoist asshole with a built in cult of personality with another. No thanks.
Warren>Pete>Beto>Kamala>Biden>>>>>>>anyone else>Bernard>Gabbard.
Warren>Pete>Beto>Kamala>Biden>>>>>>>anyone else>Bernard>Gabbard.
Joe Biden's closeness to big money interests and his defense of big moneyed interests is an issue; it's not a personal attack. They called it out in their own way. I'm sure they will keep doing that and I hope that they do, even more forcefully. While I understand your point, it seems like your suggestion comes close to granting candidates with bad policies and bad records a de facto shield during the primary. I don't agree with that.
I'm not interested in a dog show. I want my candidates to attack worse, bad ideas and defend and advocate for better ones. And that also includes attacking proponents of those bad ideas.
Don't need Trump voters to win. Hillary's margins were ~80k across 3 states. So yes the D candidate should be above apologizing for racists or painting them as victims. Focus on turning out the D vote, that's what '18 showed us. The D caucus is has far less blue dogs than ever before with a 40 seat swing.
Are you suggesting you can't win the presidency unless you go hug some racists?
While what you said is true that's only half the battle, the attacks can't be too severe or when an opponent wins it'll be harder for that opponent to form a coalition with their opposition's voters weakening the nominee in the general.
I think they're saying you want to get some of those Obama -> Trump voters back in swing states.
That's not being disputed. But there is no need to make excuses for them to achieve that.
This convo is funny because circa 2017 it was center Dems who were like "we need to hug the racists and understand their economic anxiety" and the lefter side of it going "nah fuck them".
Not that I want to hug them now but if I can get their votes for healthcare I'll talk up healthcare.
Not that I want to hug them now but if I can get their votes for healthcare I'll talk up healthcare.
Sure, you don't want to do that, but it seems like it'd be pretty easy for most Democratic candidates to craft a message that is in effect, Trump is a bullshit artist, he can't actually help you.
who wants anybody to hug racists tho? just campaign on your platform and take the votes where they come
if a racist wants to vote for M4A you want to stop them?
if a racist wants to vote for M4A you want to stop them?
IDK, soothing people's fragile egos is usually pretty effective.
David Sirota ✔
@davidsirota
Thank you, @AOC.
https://news.yahoo.com/aoc-joins-bernie-in-backing-voting-rights-for-prisoners-163930237.html
@davidsirota
Thank you, @AOC.
https://news.yahoo.com/aoc-joins-bernie-in-backing-voting-rights-for-prisoners-163930237.html
Voting rights... good? Voting suppression... bad? AOC is going to melt a couple of brains if she endorses Bernie.
If all Trump voters are just hopeless racists who can't be convinced to be better people, then our country is fucked regardless of whether we can turn out enough new voters to defeat them. Allowing 40% of the country to just continue radicalizing to the right and not bothering to try and engage with them or reverse the brainwashing is not sustainable. It's going to blow up in our faces. We can either whine about how unfair it is that we have to expend extra effort on shitty people and let the most evil and corrupt people in our society continue to drag that 40% over to their side, where they'll continue to get more violent and angry whether they still have political power or not, or we can actually make an effort. We already know they can be won back, because there are lots of people out there who were part of the alt-right that have talked about coming to their senses after being exposed to stuff like ContraPoints.
Yes but tbh minorities are not forced in any way to participate in that conversation. Getting white racists to be more normal is up to white people and especially cishets
I understand what you mean, I agree things have to be measured to some extent. But I don't think Warren and Sanders' statements were anything close to severe.
More than anything, I think that if these tepid observations on their part are making some people ansty already, it partly speaks to the serious problems of potential nominee Biden.
personally i don't give a fuck what you believe in your heart as long as you bend your political will in the right direction. there are racists and bigots everywhere, canceling them and acting superior might feel nice but it does literally nothing to win and exercise power.
Why is this thrown back as some kind of "gotcha"?
Yes. Vote for the Dem nom, means vote for the Dem nom regardless of who's up top.
Exactly.
Is anyone surprised? Ideologically, AOC and Bernie are pretty similar.
As for her endorsement, it'll be Bernie or Elizabeth, but probably Bernie.
she's probably doing what every progressive dem is doing, watching bernie and warren and going with whoever is more viable at the time of voting
I know I'm not forced to do it, but I view it as absolutely necessary for me to do my part in combating racism instead of just complaining about it.
Probably.
I dunno, Killer Mike says Bernie is Professor Xavier, so....
I remember in 2016, on the old forum, when I use to refer to Bernie as Bernard to accentuate my disdain for him. It's a silly look, though. As is all the hyperbolic hatred for him I see around here. Sanders is flawed; I couldn't stand him when he ran against Clinton, and he still gets under my skin now at moments. But at the very least I'd hope most people on this forum would agree that he's trying to get this country to a better place. That should warrant him some respect. Something.
"I don't think we can defeat Magneto without Professor Xavier"....
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