2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT2 | Warren's college tuition plan includes cancelling college debt

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stillwrapped

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Aug 15, 2018
994
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Going to have to check out the Sanders town hall.

I usually have some theories as to why something is happening but I'm a little lost on Fox ever even agreeing to have him on.

Did they really think they were going to get him? Or do they really think Trump will beat Sanders so they're propping him up to be the nominee for the general?

I really don't get the thinking in that case as Sanders is all about the people, truth, morality etc while Fox and Trump are the exact opposite. I had no doubt Sanders would crush it on Fox (as long as he had his taxes ready, which of course he did) and no doubt he'll do the same to Trump in the general. I just don't get the angle here unless they're really just that dumb.

Interesting times.
You’ll see soon enough. They tried their best to back him into a corner with the framing of their questions but he saw right through it and called them out on it every single time.
The hosts looked really bad up there
 

Rats

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,117
Or do they really think Trump will beat Sanders so they're propping him up to be the nominee for the general?
If I want to be charitable to Fox I think this makes sense, but even if they're trying to play 4D chess I think it backfired on them.

Or I could go with Hanlon's Razor and say whoever booked this card severely underestimated Bernie.
 

brainchild

GameXplain
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
7,683
Minnesota
BTW, they tried to push Bernie into saying that Biden wasn't a progressive, he didn't fall for it and told them that they knew what they were doing.

As I said before, Bernie is not going to attack his primary colleagues so the narrative that he's being divisive really needs to stop.
 

Nocturnal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,133
Chairman Daou with the wisdom


Peter Daou has the best redemption arc ever.
From his blog:

In this environment of asymmetric polarization (i.e. Republicans, not Democrats, becoming more extreme), we need politicians who will take on the far right with moral clarity and determination. Which is why I supported Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez during her primary campaign. Her willingness and ability to counter toxic GOP narratives is indispensable if Democrats hope to stop the rising tide of right-wing extremism. The half-measures, watered down policies, and empty platitudes that Democratic politicians have become accustomed to over the years won’t cut it in the face of encroaching fascism.

The majority of Americans agree with progressive positions, and Democratic leaders must finally learn to speak in clear, moral language. To speak of right and wrong. To have the courage of their convictions. To counter the GOP’s inhumane policies. To fight back with the determination and intensity required in this fraught moment.

Not a day goes by without a concern-trolling mainstream pundit admonishing Democrats not to move “too far left.” Oddly, these political “experts” never seem to care about the Republican Party’s lurch to the far right. The stale myth of a reasonable “center”—the false equivalence that seeking universal health care is as extreme as coddling neo-Nazis—has got to end.

For me, going left is going back to core American values and principles. Freedom of speech. Fairness. Justice for all. Common sense solutions to the scourge of gun violence. Putting an end to extreme inequality. Protecting the environment. And on and on.

Progressive positions are the morally correct ones. And those who claim embracing them somehow alienates the mythical “center” are simply echoing GOP narratives. I’ll end with a brilliant quote from author and professor Tayari Jones that I include in my forthcoming book, Digital Civil War: “There is nothing inherently virtuous about being neither here nor there . . . What is halfway between moral and immoral?”


Also
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,964
Sydney
If I want to be charitable to Fox I think this makes sense, but even if they're trying to play 4D chess I think it backfired on them.

Or I could go with Hanlon's Razor and say whoever booked this card severely underestimated Bernie.
It’s the same mistake they make with AOC they just put her policies out unvarnished assuming people are so ideological that they will be revolted.
 

y2dvd

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,713
You mean my dude really had boring tax returns and he killed the town hall? The front runner needs to take it all the way.
 

dlauv

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,187
Everything about the production and format is insanely endearing, but Pete doesn't pop and his sales pitch isn't as convincing as others. He tries to sound relatable but it comes off as conciliatory albeit not smooth enough, like a slightly awkward tech pitch or something. Just a little green, basically. The content of what he's saying is absolutely fine though. I wonder how it will play out.
 

FaceHugger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,860
User Banned (5 Days): Hostility against staff.
Just to respond to everyone that responded to me: it's this cynicism we Democrats seem to have towards our potential candidates that gives me a sense of gloom. I was responding to the OP, which I figured was obvious. It seems no one is good enough, they all have problems, etc.

Also, some mod needs to learn what trolling actually is. And not be a mod.
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,191
I wasn’t for Bernie last time

But I’m all in now.

Also his returns apparently didn’t prove his wife was a criminal mastermind so that’s nice too
 

Fiye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,338
Just to respond to everyone that responded to me: it's this cynicism we Democrats seem to have towards our potential candidates that gives me a sense of gloom. I was responding to the OP, which I figured was obvious. It seems no one is good enough, they all have problems, etc.

Also, some mod needs to learn what trolling actually is. And not be a mod.
This cynicism is going to be natural after we lost what should've been an easy peasy primary. Right now a measure on a lot of people's minds is elect-ability and what constitutes that really depends on the person and personally there's a nagging at the back of my head that wants to believe nothing will beat Trump because of some wild factors that haven't been put into play. (Howard Schultz actually making a independent run in the general is absolutely fucking scary to me)

For now though we're going to have a figurative selection of 20+ candidates and at various points they and we are going to tear each other apart dissecting the goods and bads of each candidate because the democratic party is a giant ass fucking tent for anyone who's not a right winged whackjob and we only get to put one person against Trump.

Treat it like excercise. Work out, recover, and get stronger. Don't fall into a despair pit.
 

FaceHugger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,860
This cynicism is going to be natural after we lost what should've been an easy peasy primary. Right now a measure on a lot of people's minds is elect-ability and what constitutes that really depends on the person and personally there's a nagging at the back of my head that wants to believe nothing will beat Trump because of some wild factors that haven't been put into play. (Howard Schultz actually making a independent run in the general is absolutely fucking scary to me)

For now though we're going to have a figurative selection of 20+ candidates and at various points they and we are going to tear each other apart dissecting the goods and bads of each candidate because the democratic party is a giant ass fucking tent for anyone who's not a right winged whackjob and we only get to put one person against Trump.

Treat it like excercise. Work out, recover, and get stronger. Don't fall into a despair pit.
I get that. But we're tearing ourselves apart at this point. Any candidate is immediately attacked for any perceived flaw. It's starting to feel like how conservatives on shitholes like /r/conservative or /pol/ approach any potential candidate. It's like our first inclination is to break them down immediately. Meanwhile the other side is gung ho behind Trump.
 

dlauv

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,187
I skipped this town hall today, but this is probably the best he's appeared so far. He sounds pissed, especially when he gets to immigration at the 23:50 mark. He deals with a single-payer heckler just before that, lol, so maybe that's why. Naturally, his gun control statements get a lot of applause.
 

Fiye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,338
I get that. But we're tearing ourselves apart at this point. Any candidate is immediately attacked for any perceived flaw. It's starting to feel like how conservatives on shitholes like /r/conservative or /pol/ approach any potential candidate. It's like our first inclination is to break them down immediately. Meanwhile the other side is gung ho behind Trump.
Because the kind of people who go on /r/conservative or /pol/ or whatever other right winged shithole is capitulate to whoever says the most racist, vile, and charged bullshit during the primary.

Meanwhile over on the democratic side we have several choices to make on what policy to do we push forward. Do we make the necessary repairs to obamacare? Or do we instead push for Medicare for America? or maybe we go all in and push for Medicare for all? We're going to debate the fuck out of this because the only policy being offered by the right is a picture of bane breaking batman obamacare's and you dealing with the issues that come with it.

If people attacking a candidate for a weakness makes you want to turn away from voting in the general then you can kindly go fuck off.
 
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Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,802
If I want to be charitable to Fox I think this makes sense, but even if they're trying to play 4D chess I think it backfired on them.

Or I could go with Hanlon's Razor and say whoever booked this card severely underestimated Bernie.
Yeah, the hosts seemed shook right off the bat with the audience reaction. Bernie flipped the script on them real quick and you could tell they were struggling real hard to regain control.

I’m watching it right now and it’s amazing the degree to which he’s schooling he anchors.

Edit:

Whew, Bernie ain't playing their games. Schooling them on their own turf.
 
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FaceHugger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,860
Because the kind of people who go on /r/conservative or /pol/ or whatever other right winged shithole is capitulate to whoever says the most racist, vile, and charged bullshit during the primary.

Meanwhile over on the democratic side we have several choices to make on what policy to do we push forward. Do we make the necessary repairs to obamacare? Or do we instead push for Medicare for America? or maybe we go all in and push for Medicare for all? We're going to debate the fuck out of this because the only policy being offered by the right is a picture of bane breaking batman obamacare's and you dealing with the issues that come with it.

If people attacking a candidate for a weakness makes you want to turn away from voting in the general then you can kindly go fuck off.
Please don't put words in my mouth and attack me for it. I never once mentioned not voting. Thanks.
 

tommy7154

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,182
I get that. But we're tearing ourselves apart at this point. Any candidate is immediately attacked for any perceived flaw. It's starting to feel like how conservatives on shitholes like /r/conservative or /pol/ approach any potential candidate. It's like our first inclination is to break them down immediately. Meanwhile the other side is gung ho behind Trump.
This is OK at this point imo. It's juvenile a lot of the time and completely ridiculous, but it's OK for now. The dem candidates are just that. Candidates. As long as everyone rallies around the nominee at the end of the day, Trump is done.

There are many candidates I don't like. When the time comes though you bet your ass I'm voting for them if they're the nominee. Obviously I don't want a fraud or someone who's going to maybe take some baby steps, but regardless any one of them would be better than where we're at right now and where we're going to be within the next 2 years.
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
698
That Fox town hall really shows all that age does not affect people equally. Bernie remains incredibly sharp, capable of crafting narratives and turning questions around in smart ways, and remaining focused on the parts of questions that actually matter. Honestly, despite very little age difference between him and Biden, he makes Biden look ancient in comparison, IMO.
 

TheModestGun

Member
Dec 5, 2017
2,621
BTW, they tried to push Bernie into saying that Biden wasn't a progressive, he didn't fall for it and told them that they knew what they were doing.

As I said before, Bernie is not going to attack his primary colleagues so the narrative that he's being divisive really needs to stop.
Agreed, people need to cut the bullshit lines about “toxic Bernie”. I hope we can FINALLY stop re-litigating 2016 (a stretch I know).
 

Hucast

alt account
Banned
Mar 25, 2019
3,598
That Fox town hall really shows all that age does not affect people equally. Bernie remains incredibly sharp, capable of crafting narratives and turning questions around in smart ways, and remaining focused on the parts of questions that actually matter. Honestly, despite very little age difference between him and Biden, he makes Biden look ancient in comparison, IMO.
He makes even me look ancient and im just reaching 30's
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,194
Agreed, people need to cut the bullshit lines about “toxic Bernie”. I hope we can FINALLY stop re-litigating 2016 (a stretch I know).
Not gonna happen.

I still see people shitting on Bernie for his fans costing Hilary the election regardless of how many times they have been told that more Bernie fans voted for Hilary then Hilary fans for Obama.
 

SaveWeyard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,540
Until the primaries actually start for real there's not much else to talk about besides re-litigating 2016 or deep dives into Marxist literature. The choice is yours, Era. First topic: how modern urban planning casts Marx's notion of idiocy in new light.
 

Tracygill

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,548
The Left

Micah Uetricht ✔


@micahuetricht

“stopping Mr. Sanders, or at least preventing a contentious convention, could prove difficult for Democrats.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-party.html
How, some Democrats are beginning to ask, do they thwart a 70-something candidate from outside the party structure who is immune to intimidation or incentive and wields support from an unwavering base, without simply reinforcing his “the establishment is out to get me’’ message — the same grievance Mr. Trump used to great effect?
The matter of What To Do About Bernie and the larger imperative of party unity has, for example, hovered over a series of previously undisclosed Democratic dinners in New York and Washington organized by the longtime party financier Bernard Schwartz. The gatherings have included scores from the moderate or center-left wing of the party, including Speaker Nancy Pelosi; Senator Chuck Schumer, the majority leader; former Gov. Terry McAuliffe of Virginia; Mayor Pete Buttigieg of South Bend, Ind., himself a presidential candidate; and the president of the Center for American Progress, Neera Tanden.
The convention could turn out to be pretty insane if no candidate manages to get a significant lead. You can google the headline and click the link or use unv.is.
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,441

Micah Uetricht ✔


@micahuetricht

“stopping Mr. Sanders, or at least preventing a contentious convention, could prove difficult for Democrats.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-party.html



The convention could turn out to be pretty insane if no candidate manages to get a significant lead.
I guess Chuck and Nancy have chosen Pete as their candidate... hosted by Bernard Schwartz, a person with a Net Worth of 14 Billion Dollars.
 

Chaos Legion

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,359
He is the front-runner by a large margin and is still being seen as the victim? Good Lord. He and his fanbase infuriate me.
 

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,775
I want Bernie to steal Corbyn’s idea for worker’ right of first refusal. Let’s get this socialism started
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,194
He is the front-runner by a large margin and is still being seen as the victim? Good Lord. He and his fanbase infuriate me.
When you have articles about how the Democratic leadership are devising ways to undermine him without being blatant about it and up until like this week the only sort of news articles you would get on Bernie are negative, what do you expect?

Bernie supporters have always pointed out that he polls higher then basically anyone, polled the best against Trump in the 2016 elections, has good approval rates among a wide range of people yet the narrative around him is how he cant win or his ideas are ridiculous and impossible to implement.

I mean hell, look at the narrative from 2016 to now:

Everyone but bernie in 2016 - M4A is a pipe dream and cant be done
Everyone but bernie in 2019 - M4A is a great idea and i support some form of it, but Bernies ideas are a pipe dream and cant be done.

I mean im English and I can see how this shit has gone on form here and completely understand why Bernie supporters get frustrated with how he is treated.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,802
Bernie pissing off the party elite through his success is endlessly amusing. The thirst for cancellation is potent.
When you have articles about how the Democratic leadership are devising ways to undermine him without being blatant about it and up until like this week the only sort of news articles you would get on Bernie are negative, what do you expect?

Bernie supporters have always pointed out that he polls higher then basically anyone, polled the best against Trump in the 2016 elections, has good approval rates among a wide range of people yet the narrative around him is how he cant win or his ideas are ridiculous and impossible to implement.

I mean hell, look at the narrative from 2016 to now:

Everyone but bernie in 2016 - M4A is a pipe dream and cant be done
Everyone but bernie in 2019 - M4A is a great idea and i support some form of it, but Bernies ideas are a pipe dream and cant be done.

I mean im English and I can see how this shit has gone on form here and completely understand why Bernie supporters get frustrated with how he is treated.
Yep. Bernie is successfully subverting the political norms people are deeply invested in and that pisses them off.
 
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Nov 13, 2017
4,992
I'm seriously starting to drink the Pete koolaid. As a queer person myself, though, I'm so afraid that socially conservative dems and independents will - at the very last minute - not give him the vote because of his sexuality.
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,441
Why would Pete be the establishment candidate over someone with way higher poll performance like Biden?
There was talk of Biden having issues with getting support from bundlers. I think there's the fear from the establishment that Biden will implode due to gaffes.

Someone like Pete or Beto doesn't have the same baggage, but at the same time are also charismatic. In 2016 Joe's messaging was that he intends to be a One Term President, which doesn't favor people who are looking for stability.
 
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