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BREXIT |OT| A minister always pays his debts

Oct 25, 2017
2,652
Los Angeles
The Independent Group's values according to Gavin Shuker:
- Britain is a great country
- Government should keep people safe
- "Not every problem in the world is created by the West"
- Work with other countries to solve shared problems
- Good public services come from strong economy
- Government is custodian of money from the public
- "Believe in the innate creativity of individuals"
- Government should remove barriers
- Strong democratic institutions of press, police, etc
Shat the Fuck is that?
Not even a hint at Brexit being shit.


Last weeks remainiacs was quite sobering. There really is no Reversing course on Brexit.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,376
The Independent Group's values according to Gavin Shuker:
- Britain is a great country
- Government should keep people safe
- "Not every problem in the world is created by the West"
- Work with other countries to solve shared problems
- Good public services come from strong economy
- Government is custodian of money from the public
- "Believe in the innate creativity of individuals"
- Government should remove barriers
- Strong democratic institutions of press, police, etc
Yet you will have people cheering them regardless of the fact they are so far a private company, looking for outside investment, acting like a political party with no actual policies.

All while ignoring the main issue people are cheering them on for leaving Labour for.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,161
New Yawk City!
So, it’s a group of people who were already unhappy in Labour for reasons well-publicized. Apparently no surprise defections from Team Red to shock observers, and no Conservatives willing to make the jump with them as yet. So now the story is about Labour and not a bigger story about a “new centrism”.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,553
is that 3500 jobs from Honda or including suppliers etc? Or could the number be much higher once that is factored in?

I suppose we need to see if they are planning to move production elsewhere in the EU - or its possible the EU/JPN FTA means they can ship from Japan economically enough to not need local production?


Doesn't matter anyway - those that voted leave will put their fingers in their ears because as we've learned, people don't like admitting they're wrong, they want an easy way to save face.
 
Oct 27, 2017
598
Well that new party gig is going about as well as everyone had predicted... (¬‿¬)


Slightly offtopic, but once the explosions stop around the beginning of April, what do you all think is better, pay the ~9 GBP per NHL prescription and month using cold hard cash (GBP may or may not be worthless), or rely on "it's not really money lol" prepaid certificates? Let's be honest: it's unknown if those are honoured in an emergency situation, and they can't be changed back to real money, but hey, a prescription flatrate in case of unforeseen events seems nice, especially if there's uncertainty about fees and service levels?
(A hundred quid for a year seems OK if you have a prescription anyway... )
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,317
It's their only factory in the EU, if they announce a new factory on the continent then I'd like to see Boris or Mogg explain that one away.
They won't, they'll produce in Japan. Honda doesn't sell that well in Europe. Brexit simply destroys any profitability the plant had in those circumstances.
 
Feb 1, 2019
26
Yep, and i was one of those leave voters in Swindon. I'm trying my best to convince people that changing their mind is fine but people are just blinkered. People even today arguing the toss and now i'm being sent abuse on facebook for it.

The MP's still lying to us are to blame not the people at the time of voting but anyone still advocating for leave is now just deluded in my opinion. Will hurt this town pretty badly.
 
Oct 31, 2017
119
Yeah but but diesel engines and Japan FTA means this would happen anyway, something something, PrOjeCt fEaR!!
In the Japanese car industries case in the long term I expect all EU plants to close, as there's no incentive to manufacture locally now with the new FTA. To be honest I'm really suprised they signed up to it as its going to cost a lot of automotive industry jobs going forward, as it now makes no sense not to consolidate production in Japan. Why have lots of smaller plants producing models in Europe when you can have the efficiencies of scale by having the whole supply chain in one location?
 
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Feb 1, 2019
26
In the Japanese car industries case in the long term I expect all EU plants to close, as there's no incentive to manufacture locally now with the new FTA. To be honest I'm really suprised they signed up to it as its going to cost a lot of automotive industry jobs going forward, as it now makes no sense not to consolidate production in Japan. Why have lots of smaller plants producing models in Europe when you can have the efficiencies of scale by having the whole supply chain in one location?
You may be right and that is logical but, i am pretty sure that brexit is the straw that broke the camels back. If this wasn't happening then i would guess the plant wouldn't have shut or wouldn't have shut until much later.

It's quite logical to think that if any company is looking to make changes then any UK based location is suddenly low hanging fruit due to brexit, especially if the UK isn't the largest market you sell to.
 

Murderopolis

Using an alt account to circumvent a ban
Member
Jan 12, 2019
105
Yep, and i was one of those leave voters in Swindon. I'm trying my best to convince people that changing their mind is fine but people are just blinkered. People even today arguing the toss and now i'm being sent abuse on facebook for it.

The MP's still lying to us are to blame not the people at the time of voting but anyone still advocating for leave is now just deluded in my opinion. Will hurt this town pretty badly.
Of course people are blinkered. Thats kinda the problem with British culture. Its a culture of ignorance and extremes. Culture of extreme media partisanship.

UK is the only major country in the world where all three of the biggest read news sources are tabloids. The culture of Britain is to be ignorant and sensational. This is nothing new. Expecting anything else is setting yourself up for disappointment.
 
Nov 3, 2017
3,018
In the Japanese car industries case in the long term I expect all EU plants to close, as there's no incentive to manufacture locally now with the new FTA. To be honest I'm really suprised they signed up to it as its going to cost a lot of automotive industry jobs going forward, as it now makes no sense not to consolidate production in Japan. Why have lots of smaller plants producing models in Europe when you can have the efficiencies of scale by having the whole supply chain in one location?
Why produce in Japan with an aging populace and not enough young engineers?
they could produce cheaper in Poland and EXPORT to Japan.
 
Oct 28, 2017
269
UK
In the Japanese car industries case in the long term I expect all EU plants to close, as there's no incentive to manufacture locally now with the new FTA. To be honest I'm really suprised they signed up to it as its going to cost a lot of automotive industry jobs going forward, as it now makes no sense not to consolidate production in Japan. Why have lots of smaller plants producing models in Europe when you can have the efficiencies of scale by having the whole supply chain in one location?
You don't have to pay to ship the cars across the world if they've produced in the market you're selling to. If you're doing high volumes it doesn't make sense to stick that many cars on boats.

However, Honda doesn't sell well in Europe, with fairly small sales figures it's not too surprising they're closing the factory down.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,328
American here: can anyone explain to me the thought process behind The Independent Group? Reading their ideology, they don't seem that different than what I understand as the LibDems's ideology? Especially in regards to Brexit? I'm also a little confused at why you'd start another centrist party in a FPTP system?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,652
Los Angeles
American here: can anyone explain to me the thought process behind The Independent Group? Reading their ideology, they don't seem that different than what I understand as the LibDems's ideology? Especially in regards to Brexit? I'm also a little confused at why you'd start another centrist party in a FPTP system?
No one knows, wish we could tell you. :p
You covered most of the bases with your analysis, there is not a lot more to add.
 
Oct 28, 2017
570
American here: can anyone explain to me the thought process behind The Independent Group? Reading their ideology, they don't seem that different than what I understand as the LibDems's ideology? Especially in regards to Brexit? I'm also a little confused at why you'd start another centrist party in a FPTP system?
They are a bunch of chancers. Any valid oncerns they have should be buried beneath their cynicism and incompetence.
 
Nov 5, 2017
1,013
Thanks to the new EU / Japan trade deal, it doesn't even need to be in the EU.
I don't think Honda's decision was totally do with Brexit. They produce Civic's all over the world (Canada, the US, Malaysia, Brasil) and relatively few in Japan. But the Civic is due a refresh, the current model is 2016 and historical Honda don't really let the Civic go more than 5 years without a refresh, and concidently or not 2021 seems to be when production is going to taper off.

If you can remove uncertainty from your business then it's a no brainer. The capital costs are largely off the books for a factory as old as Swindon, so you're only really paying to exit.
You don't have to pay to ship the cars across the world if they've produced in the market you're selling to. If you're doing high volumes it doesn't make sense to stick that many cars on boats.

However, Honda doesn't sell well in Europe, with fairly small sales figures it's not too surprising they're closing the factory down.
Honda's UK plant output less than 50% sold in the UK/EU (35%ish EU27, 15% UK) so the EU/JPN deal really doesn't have massive amounts to do with it. It's certainly a factor though and it helps increase the competitiveness of the Japanese plants facing the EU, and obviously Brexit decreases the UK plants competitiveness (as 40% of it's components come from the EU)
Honda's other European facilities: a logistics hub in Belgium and a small factory in Turkey (produces 50k vehicles per year to Swindon's 150k) are supposedly affected as well. I imagine the Turkish plant is simply too small to run by itself.

I've no doubt btw that Honda's Press release tomorrow will steer clear of Brexit, talking about global strategies, electric vehicles, tough markets and maybe a reference to instability, I mean why would you want to piss off 50% of your potential UK consumers.
 
Nov 21, 2017
685
American here: can anyone explain to me the thought process behind The Independent Group? Reading their ideology, they don't seem that different than what I understand as the LibDems's ideology? Especially in regards to Brexit? I'm also a little confused at why you'd start another centrist party in a FPTP system?
Probably a wild swing against Corbyn. They can hang on until 2022 before having to be re-elected unless external events intervene. They are just independents without a party or manifesto. It’s a lightning rod for Corbyn resistance within the PLP. If he gets the push in favour of a more centrist leader they can negotiate to rejoin.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,368
Of course people are blinkered. Thats kinda the problem with British culture. Its a culture of ignorance and extremes. Culture of extreme media partisanship.

UK is the only major country in the world where all three of the biggest read news sources are tabloids. The culture of Britain is to be ignorant and sensational. This is nothing new. Expecting anything else is setting yourself up for disappointment.
The UK media, particularly the foul right wing rags, have a hell of a lot to answer for. And not just regarding Brexit either.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,446
Still can't believe this is happening.

Still can't believe it's just over a month until it happens and I still don't know what will really happen outside of everything being fucked.

Fuck saaaaaaake.
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,478
I'm also giving serious consideration to putting a chest freezer into either my kitchen or my garage. Order a shitload of protein before it's all chlorine washed or £30 a kg.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,267
I'm also giving serious consideration to putting a chest freezer into either my kitchen or my garage. Order a shitload of protein before it's all chlorine washed or £30 a kg.
I did this 6 months ago. If you can get a Costco membership you'll fill it in a single shop

Plus the underrated benefit of not worrying about having to go out and buy more milk, as you can just overbuy and freeze it
 
Nov 21, 2017
685
I'm also giving serious consideration to putting a chest freezer into either my kitchen or my garage. Order a shitload of protein before it's all chlorine washed or £30 a kg.
Mine lands Friday (no joke). Went with 250L but kind of wish I had gone bigger. If your going to put it outside make sure it’s one that can operate down to -15C.
 
Oct 28, 2017
312
American here: can anyone explain to me the thought process behind The Independent Group? Reading their ideology, they don't seem that different than what I understand as the LibDems's ideology? Especially in regards to Brexit? I'm also a little confused at why you'd start another centrist party in a FPTP system?
Speaking as a Lib Dem voter, the Lib Dems are done. Sadly too tarnished by the coalition.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,495
Manchester, UK
Yep, and i was one of those leave voters in Swindon. I'm trying my best to convince people that changing their mind is fine but people are just blinkered. People even today arguing the toss and now i'm being sent abuse on facebook for it.

The MP's still lying to us are to blame not the people at the time of voting but anyone still advocating for leave is now just deluded in my opinion. Will hurt this town pretty badly.
Sorry, but no - voters were repeatedly warned that leaving would be disastrous and still chose to do it anyway. I am glad you have realised the damage leaving will do, but this is on it's voters as well as the lying politicians that sold it to them