Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)

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funky

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Oct 25, 2017
8,163
Ps5 bring 10tfps and Xbox bring 12 is still a closer powergap then xb1 and PS4.




I can see it.
 

Rion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,346
MS got pretty competent artists too, tho. Gears 5 is one of the prettiest games of the generation, and Forza Horizon 4 looks insanely well on the base Xbox
Of course. I'm just making the point that at this point most AAA games look the way they do because of great art direction and clever programming, not technical specs. Personally I think a lot of Sony first party titles on the base PS4 look better than anything on the X yet the X has 3x the GPU power, a 500+ MHz CPU advantage and 5GB more RAM. The spec differences won't be anything like that between PS5 and XB2 from what we've heard.

There will be phenomenal looking games on both with games running at a higher resolution on the Series X (maybe 1800p vs 2160p).

Let's not bring any more of this fanboy stuff in here. MS have new studios and more competent devs than we can imagine.
I'm a 38 year old man who owns a gaming PC, an X, a Pro and a Switch. It's an opinion (which is shared by a lot of people in the industry), no need to get so defensive and start personally attacking people...
 

rbej

Banned
Dec 16, 2019
52
No? Kleegamefan said both had double digit TF and that PS5 was a bit stronger. Then the stuff about the 12TF Series X happened, and he said nothing had changed. As far as I remember, nothing of any credibility has countered this, so that's where we are now.
Klee is not insider....Another none name guy from internet. Like me and you. Nothing more....
 

Jade1962

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,499
We don't know, but I don't see them dropping the support or external storage. So PS4/XB1 games could be flagged to be playable on an external device, while for these requiring high-bandwith, only copyable in archive mode.
That would not be a good look if they are pushing BC as a selling point all the while pushing digital adoption this generation. Plug and play around be the goal.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,401
Barcelona Spain
NVIDIA is using RT on a 2080RTX with a 448GB/s bus. MS E3 CGI video had shown us 560GB/s bus (320-bit + 14Gbps chips) and XSX has RT. Flute had a 576GB/s bus in the leak (~535GB/s real world). I don't think we are going where you think we are going regarding memory bus speeds. We are probably going to be in the high 500's to low 600's on both systems.
Nvidia RT solution is not the same than AMD solution. We have maybe a few days to wait to begin to compare. 6th Janury AMD CES Conference.
 

Manfred

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,858
Geneva, Switzerland
That would not be a good look if they are pushing BC as a selling point all the while pushing digital adoption this generation. Plug and play around be the goal.
Oh if you just speak about this, it could be possible yes... or no. I hope so but it's too early to figure. First because drives are linked to a console, I am not sure you can read it on another one at least without the previous user/password. Than, there is the filesystem used that could differ and so depends on a possibility offered to upgrade... or not. Wait and see ;)
 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,953
No. I dont believe in any word from people like him. No matters who says.
But people like MisterXmedia or whatever might be right...

I dont like very much MisterC, but:


Maybe this time has right....
Honestly, with posts like these:
You are real Ponyboy.....
This is serious forum or Sonyboys church??
How are you still around?
 

DrKeo

Member
Mar 3, 2019
1,667
Israel
With this, you have a path to a cost reduced box in 2-3 years. With GDDR6, you’re stuck with it essentially forever.
In 3 years, 5nm or even better node-based "slim" models will appear that replace the old models. In these new refreshes, they can use whatever memory they want as long as it is equal or superior to the launch console setup. I don't see a reason going for a crazy setup just so you will save money in 2023 when you are going to refresh the machine in 2023 anyway.

That’s your post
“5700XT uses 448GB/s and doesn't show signs of bandwidth limitations.”
Would you explain this please?

A lot of people said you underestimate the bandwidth required.
5700XT isn't bandwidth limited as, for instance, Vega 64 which was very bandwidth limited. If consoles would have had Vega 64 as a GPU, I would say they will probably have a much faster bus than Vega 64's because that GPU was suffocated but its memory setup. If consoles would have had 5700XT in them, I would say that (if we ignore the CPU for a second) they will probably have sub-5700XT memory bus because historically consoles had lower memory bandwidth than their PC counterpart if you consider the CPU.

Flute has 576GB/s setup, XSX has 560GB/s setup (according to the E3 CGI video), so I think we already have a ballpark for next-gen bandwidth.
 

Solary

Member
Nov 20, 2019
39
Can’t believe how fast time flies, remember watching the PS4 reveal like it was yesterday. browsing over on GAF as the show rolled on. The Cerny bathtub references, and the bloodborn leaks and impressions by the GameTrailers crew (now EZ Allies)

Now we are here a couple of months away from the inevitable PS5 reveal.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,555
Msk / SPb, Russia
The price in the article is 120 dollars for 16 GB of HBM2 4 stacks. You can divide the price by two for 8 GB and the DDR4 3200 will be cheap probably 1.5 to 2 dollars per GB for such huge quantity. Spot price of DDR4 2400 is 2.8 dollars.

The package with info_MS does not need interposer.

And more important this only launch configuration, there is a full path to HBM2E or more probably HBM3 with only 2 stacks on the other part of the memory DDR5 with a tinier bus.

With this you probably have a very competitive solution from a price and performance point of view and the real world performance is probably bigger than on paper because memory contention is greatly reduce and HBM2 has more bank than GDDR6.
There's a lot of assumptions on costs here, starting with the "divide by 2" which is likely wrong. Then you have to account for the cost of assembly (including the cost of the interposer chip) which isn't nearly cheap with any HBM solution and is essentially absent from a G6 system.

There's no need to start a "path" to a faster memory from some specific memory type. You can just as well go from G6 to some HBM3 in a future console revision.

Also, thus far, there are no indications whatsoever that HBM is in any way a better fit for typical gaming graphics workloads than GDDR.
 

DrKeo

Member
Mar 3, 2019
1,667
Israel
They confirmed the architecture used for their CPU (including the number of cores and threads) and GPU, confirmed PS4 BC, confirmed the storage is an SSD with higher read speed than a PC SSD of the time, and went into fine detail on the haptic feedback on the controller. I'm not demanding some sort fine detail, just an offhand mention the way Xbox did at E3.



I honestly think that if it wasn't that exciting, they would just say 'GDDR6' alongside 'Zen2' and 'Navi' and leave it at that. Zen2 and Navi weren't exciting either - they were just what everyone expected. As for why they wouldn't mention it, it's possible that if they really are using a split memory setup, they want to wait until they can visually demonstrate the benefits in fine detail. You only need to look at this thread to see multiple people comparing the idea to previous inferior split memory setups because they don't understand how HBCC works.

Don't get me wrong, you may well be totally correct. But I do think that them not mentioning it so far, especially when the 2nd Wired article did set out to respond to fan questions about RT, is frankly odd. It feels like a missing piece.
I actually think that Zen2, RT and SSD are huge PR moves that blew people away. HBM2 would have fit in that list perfectly while GDDR6 isn't really interesting.
 

Shpeshal Ed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,017
Melbourne, Australia
You're grasping at straws, dude...since when the 2019 version was "basically ready to go"??

And you talk about people reading what their post before pushing the button?

Both companies will launch on equal footing, and to think that whatever plans Sony had in 2016/17 for the PS5 is gonna hurt them on their 2020 reads more as wishful thinking than anything based on reality.

Regarding the RAM, we'll see, but certainly no need to "fucking lol" other posters about it. Ugh
You all realise that even an 8TF PS5 when combined with a modern CPU and SSD will still be a more than capable console yeah?

As in it will still be capable of 4K60?
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
4,818
You think next-gen games will look like Star Wars prequels trilogy CGI?
I imagine both better and worse. CGI has a different feel to it. This is something Klee mentioned in one of his posts about the game he saw - that while it was mind-blowing, it didn't look like CGI, it looked like a game.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
4,818
I actually think that Zen2, RT and SSD are huge PR moves that blew people away. HBM2 would have fit in that list perfectly while GDDR6 isn't really interesting.
RT and SSD I agree on, but by my recollection a Zen2 CPU was considered plainly obvious at that point in April, and Navi only slightly less so. I don't remember anyone being surprised by the APU at all.

Edit: Sorry for the double posts, I keep focusing on my reply and forgetting I just posted before.
 

DrKeo

Member
Mar 3, 2019
1,667
Israel
RT and SSD I agree on, but by my recollection a Zen2 CPU was considered plainly obvious at that point in April, and Navi only slightly less so. I don't remember anyone being surprised by the APU at all.
The thing that got people excited was the 8c part of the Zen 2 announcement, the fact that we are getting a full 3700X more or less.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,401
Barcelona Spain
There's a lot of assumptions on costs here, starting with the "divide by 2" which is likely wrong. Then you have to account for the cost of assembly (including the cost of the interposer chip) which isn't nearly cheap with any HBM solution and is essentially absent from a G6 system.

There's no need to start a "path" to a faster memory from some specific memory type. You can just as well go from G6 to some HBM3 in a future console revision.

Also, thus far, there are no indications whatsoever that HBM is in any way a better fit for typical gaming graphics workloads than GDDR.
Again with Info_Ms there is no need interposer. This not a path to faster memory, this a path to cost reduction, less stack on HBM3 case and tinier bus to replace DDR4 with DDR5.

Generally I often see 8 GB of RAM cost half the price of 16 GB but maybe HBM is a new case.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,682
In 3 years, 5nm or even better node-based "slim" models will appear that replace the old models. In these new refreshes, they can use whatever memory they want as long as it is equal or superior to the launch console setup. I don't see a reason going for a crazy setup just so you will save money in 2023 when you are going to refresh the machine in 2023 anyway.
MS specifically said one of the reasons they didn't go with HBM on Xbox One X was because of the difference in access behavior between that and other memory types, so I wouldn't assume it's going to be fully transparent. GDDR6 may have different control schemes than DDR, but the bank arrangement is the same.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,401
Barcelona Spain
You can replace the GDDR6 with HBM3 or any other cheaper setup in the 2023 console refresh.
This will cost more than the proposal I do. Here you have a faster pool of memory and a slower one. 16 GB of HBM3 will maybe be more expensive than 16GB of GDDR6 in 2/3 years and for sure more expensive than 8 GB of HBM3 + 12 GB of DDR5. The goal is to reduce cost and reduce to the minimum viable of fast RAM knowing there is a fast storage. My proposal only work with a fast SSD.
 

SPDIF

Member
Oct 27, 2017
297
But people like MisterXmedia or whatever might be right...



Honestly, with posts like these:


How are you still around?
Not wishing to defend them, but if you look at the posts that they're responding to, they're not exactly any better than his/hers. Fact is there's a bunch of obnoxious fanboys on both 'sides' that ideally would be culled as soon as they're discovered. Unfortunately that just doesn't happen.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
1,992
Well since predictions seem to popular these days I'll toss out mine for the PS5:

3.4 GHz Zen 2 CPU
Separate ARM processor to handle OS and background functions, freeing up the Zen 2 CPU to focus on the games
13.3 TF Navi RDNA2 GPU
16 GB HBM2 RAM - 100% dedicated to the games
128 GB ReRAM @ 25.6 GB/s - the OS runs from the ReRAM so no need for additional DDR4 RAM to pair with the HBM2
1 TB SSD @ 4 - 6 GB/s
Dedicated 3D audio chip that will take full advantage of a new 3D audio format Sony will push via Wwise, based on their 360 Reality Audio tech
Full BC with the PS1 to PS4 at launch

Dual Shock 5 has an OLED display in place of the touchpad and at least 2 paddles built into the back that can either serve as extra functions in some games or be remapped to handle functions from other buttons on the controller depending on the game.

The PS5 reveal event will contain some specs to satisfy the hardcore crowd, but it will mostly focus on feelings and the experience. So things like the speed advantage differences with last gen will be demonstrated. They'll show off things that demonstrate the difference in scale and complexity of the game worlds and we'll get some great graphical showpieces. We'll get a lot about the DS5 and how its haptic feedback and resistive triggers will help immerse you in the experience. We'll also get a fair bit of info on how the 3D audio will alter our experiences both with headphones and sound systems. That sorta thing.


PS5 will be designed to be very quiet. I'm not gonna push the passive cooling theory here, but it'll be very, very quiet. Why am I certain the PS5 will be very quiet? It's been one of the biggest issues customers have talked about for years. Cerny's design philosophy is all about listening to the devs to learn what they want and try to implement it and what they've done wrong and try to fix it, it'd be silly to think they don't take a similar approach to customer feedback.

That's my prediction :)
And what do people think this will cost? Going for ReRAM alongside SSD solution, having a screen on the controller.

People know that everything that goes into a console, including functionality that runs apps is going to up the cost to produce, right?
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,682
I will be clear too. I don't believe in HBM2 with more than 8GB. It we need more GDDR6 is a better choice.
I'm on the other side of the fence. I think you go 16GB of HBM2 and 4GB of LPDDR4 if you're going to commit to HBM. Then, you decouple the need for shared memory space in gaming workloads. The OS can live in the LPDDR4 and when you go on low power standby, you can live entirely in the LPDDR4. Managed by some sort of off-chip Southbridge-like device as seen on the PS4 Pro.
 

DrKeo

Member
Mar 3, 2019
1,667
Israel
MS specifically said one of the reasons they didn't go with HBM on Xbox One X was because of the difference in access behavior between that and other memory types, so I wouldn't assume it's going to be fully transparent. GDDR6 may have different control schemes than DDR, but the bank arrangement is the same.
They've said that? They actually considered HBM2 which was ~250$ for 12GB in 2017? Well, I'm pretty sure ESRAM + DDR3 has a pretty different access pattern than a unified pool of GDDR5 so I'm sure that if they want to change the memory setup in 2023, they will manage :)

This will cost more than the proposal I do. Here you have a faster pool of memory and a slower one. 16 GB of HBM3 will maybe be more expensive than 16GB of GDDR6 in 2/3 years and for sure more expensive than 8 GB of HBM3 + 12 GB of DDR5. The goal is to reduce cost and reduce to the minimum viable of fast RAM knowing there is a fast storage. My proposal only work with a fast SSD.
Two pools of memory actually used for games that one of them is HBM2 (like the 8GB HBM2 + whatever amount of DDR4 proposal) will result in more die space wasted and probably lower speeds and higher developer hassle than a unified GDDR6 pool.
I'm on the other side of the fence. I think you go 16GB of HBM2 and 4GB of LPDDR4 if you're going to commit to HBM. Then, you decouple the need for shared memory space in gaming workloads. The OS can live in the LPDDR4 and when you go on low power standby, you can live entirely in the LPDDR4. Managed by some sort of off-chip Southbridge-like device as seen on the PS4 Pro.
I agree.
 

dbcyber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
947
This thread is so thirsty for PS5 specs and I can't stop reading just incase a new rumour or leak happens. 2+ months is just too far away for the official announcement.
 
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